Looking for a CE/patrol ship thart works

[Garyius2003]

I sort of posted this in a general fleet thread However, this is more of a Mongoose board issue. I am looking for a usable close escort which is also a patrol ship. A Gazelle/Fiery Navy category that makes sense for MgT.

MgT fleet standard (6G, J-3), MgT battle armor (level 8), a ship's boat (30) or gig (20), and two usable stinger weapons (50 ton meson bay or PA barbs, and torp barbs or a 50 ton bay).

I just can't make it work without chasing higher tonnages, which takes it past a player level ship. Anyone have a good design that works at TL-13 (failing that, 14)?

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

how "big" is "too big"?

also, bear in mind, your ship is going to have a minimum crew of 6 (2 for the small craft, and 2 for each of the bays), not counting whatever else the ship will need. It may well shoot straight up into "too many for a party" numbers.

if the crew nunbers are the problem, why not just stick in a few NPCs to make up the numbers?

 

[McPerth]

Not knowing your exact needs, I see what you say as excessive gunning for such a ship.

I'd ressort to the Gazelle/Fiery design as shown in MgT CB, just exchanging two of its turrets for PA ones and arm the othr two with triple lasers (either beam or pulse, depending on if you see them as offensive, then pulse ones, or defensive, then beam ones), as the original design in CT/MT was.

This would give it quite a punch for such a small ship anyway...

 

[rancke]

What is MgT's requirement for installing 50T bays? Under HG you need a minimum tonnage of 1000 to have a bay (and it would use up 10 hardpoints).

As for PC crewing, my highly successful naval campaign had the players play three characters each, an officer, a crewman, and a marine. That allowed the players to mke up a party for any occasion. I started them off with a Gazelle, but upgraded them to a 500T ship with a crew of 15 to allow a few NPC crewmen too. NPC henchmen are very useful. It allows the PCs to go out and have adventures and leave someone behind to hold the horses (or the Far Future equivalent).


Hans

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

any ship can mount a bay, which only takes 1 hardpoint. what types you can have are linked to your P plant rating, as is how many you can mount (1 per 1000 tons per P plant rating). barbettes are, off the top of my head, not limited by P plant, so he could mount a torp bay and a PA barbette or any ship over 200 tons.

int theory, at least. of course, the other elements of his design (6g, J3, armour 8 and a 20 ton small craft) will, as he says, push the tonnage upwards. I can;t see this being made at less than 400-500 tons and a crew around a dozen, but i might have a go.

 

[Condottiere]

With the usual jump capable patrol ship, one bay is about all you can jam in anyway, regardless how much you power up.

 

[McPerth]

any ship can mount a bay, which only takes 1 hardpoint. what types you can have are linked to your P plant rating, as is how many you can mount (1 per 1000 tons per P plant rating).

That linking to the PP is from HG, not told about in the CB, though...

And what happens on under 1000 dton ships? Can a 500 dton ship with PP6 have 3 bays? Needs a 200 dton ship have PP6 to have one bay?

I also dislike the fact that missile bays are also counted on this PP limit, so making them as power hungry as a meson bay...

As for PC crewing, my highly successful naval campaign had the players play three characters each, an officer, a crewman, and a marine. That allowed the players to mke up a party for any occasion. I started them off with a Gazelle, but upgraded them to a 500T ship with a crew of 15 to allow a few NPC crewmen too. NPC henchmen are very useful. It allows the PCs to go out and have adventures and leave someone behind to hold the horses (or the Far Future equivalent).

NPC crew might also be a way for the referee to give advice (or red herrings), aside form adventure hooks...

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

And what happens on under 1000 dton ships? Can a 500 dton ship with PP6 have 3 bays? Needs a 200 dton ship have PP6 to have one bay?

I also dislike the fact that missile bays are also counted on this PP limit, so making them as power hungry as a meson bay...

1. A 500 tonner with P6 can have, in theory, 6 bays.

2. aggreed, its dumb, but thems the rules....

edit: just realised the top paragraph was purly rhetorical. oh well.......

 

[McPerth]

1. A 500 tonner with P6 can have, in theory, 6 bays.

Where do you take this info from?

In HG (unless I read it wrong, off course) it only says X bays/1000 tons, not talking about fractions of those 1000 tons block (and the example is a 60 kdt ship, so does not help here), and CB (again, unless I read it wrong)doesn't put limits on them (aside from saying They are found only on larger spacecrafts (page 111) and that they use one hardpoint each, but usually the tonnage limits them more than hardpoints do).

 

[Condottiere]

I thought it was PP factor times 1KT, with a minimum of one.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

I havn't got my books on me at this exact instant, so i can't quote page numbers, but off the top of my head, some of the ships in MgT traders and Gunboats have 2 or 3 bays, dispite being under 1000 tons. the Defence frigate, the Pirate Cruiser and i think the Ambush frigate all have at least 2bays, And are 600-800 tons.

 

[McPerth]

I havn't got my books on me at this exact instant, so i can't quote page numbers, but off the top of my head, some of the ships in MgT traders and Gunboats have 2 or 3 bays, dispite being under 1000 tons. the Defence frigate, the Pirate Cruiser and i think the Ambush frigate all have at least 2bays, And are 600-800 tons.

If we acept those fractionary kdt to be treated as such, a 500 ton ships with PP4 would be able to mount 2 bays, and with PP6 could have 3, as asked before (it was not purely rhetorical, Xerxes)...

And IIRC in MgT T&G msot ships comply with that for its bays...

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

well, like i said, i havn't got my books handy to check the wording of teh rules or the exact stats of the ships.

I thought it was PP factor times 1KT, with a minimum of one.

again noting i'm talking form memory, I think the wording went, like mcperth says, tonnage/1000 * P plant rateing. now that he's pointed it out, I am forced to admit what he says does make sense, and i may have misread it.

 

[rancke]

1. A 500 tonner with P6 can have, in theory, 6 bays.

2. aggreed, its dumb, but thems the rules....

Being a roleplayer rather than a wargamer, I usually go with the principle that if it's the rules but it's dumb, then it's not the rules. (The exception being if the dumb rules make for a better roleplaying game).

Not that I think the HG hardpoint rule is flawless. For example, if you were to propose a 50T bay that only used up five hardpoints, I might very well approve.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

I sort of posted this in a general fleet thread However, this is more of a Mongoose board issue. I am looking for a usable close escort which is also a patrol ship. A Gazelle/Fiery Navy category that makes sense for MgT.

Hi,

I've done several designs, this is based on a CT Traveller design:

Fiery Class Gunned Escort
Ship: Imperium Class: Fiery Type: Escort
Tech Level: 14 Architect: Imperial Design Price
Tons (MCr)
TL 12 HULL Streamlined Hull 8 0.0 17.60
400 tons Structure 8 0.0 0.00
Armour Crystaliron Rating 8 40.0 6.40
Jump Drive F Jump 3 35.0 60.00
Maneuvre Drive K Thrust 5 19.0 40.00
Power Plant K 31.0 80.00
Fuel 160 tons = one J3 & 4 weeks operations 160.0 0.00
Integral Fuel Scoops & Fuel Purifier (40t/day) 2.0 0.10
Bridge Hardened, Holographic Controls 20.0 3.00
Computer Model 5 fib Rating 25 0.0 15.00
Electronics: TL13 CM DM +4 7.0 6.00
Weapons: Bay TL14 reduced size Fusion Gun 37.5 10.00
triple turret x2 TL11 accurate Beam Laser x3 2.0 9.50
triple turret x1 Missile Rack x3 1.0 3.25
48 missiles 0.12 MCr 4.0 0.00
5 Staterooms 20.0 2.50
Ships Locker, 1 x 20t Launch 20.0 13.57
Software: Maneuvre, Library, Jump 3, Evade 1, Fire Control 4 0.0 9.30
Cargo 1.4 0.00
500 tons Cost 248.598 MCr in quantity 399.9 276.22
CREW:
3 Officers Captain(O3), Pilot(O2), Navigator(O2)
6 Crew 2 Engineers, 4 Gunners,

The Fiery class are a modified Gazelle design used by IN, Companies and
Star Mercs. It is capable of taking on pirates, small raiders & undertaking
raids.

sorry don't know how to get it too line up

regards

David

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Being a roleplayer rather than a wargamer, I usually go with the principle that if it's the rules but it's dumb, then it's not the rules. (The exception being if the dumb rules make for a better roleplaying game).

aggreed, for what it's worth, but unless the rules change, they still form the baseline for a discussion about the crunch of a game, unless specific house rules are mentioned.


What you do with your group is of coruse totally up to you, and i can't exactly claim to have obeyed every rule of every RPG i've played (I think my epic level DnD party was techincally carrying about a metric ton of assorted loot, per person).

Not that I think the HG hardpoint rule is flawless. For example, if you were to propose a 50T bay that only used up five hardpoints, I might very well approve.

It's a little bit thornier in MgT, as bay size is, in fact, changeable, with higher-tech and more expensive versions having the option of being smaller, down to 60% of normal size at TL+3.

 

[Condottiere]

It should also be a question of surface space, at which point we suddenly design ships that open up like scissors, or unzipper their front.

 

[McPerth]

My take on such a ship you said. It's TL 13 and built just with the CB:

Item	Notes	Tonnage	MCr
400 Ton Hull	Hull: 8 Structure: 8	400	16
Cristallion Armor	Armor: 12	60	9.6
Jump Drive F	Jump: 3	35	60
Maneuver Drive M	Maneuver: 6	23	48
Power Plant M	Power: 6	37	96
Jump Fuel	1 Jump 3	120	-
Power Plant Fuel	4 weeks	32	-
Bridge	-	20	2
Computer	Model 6 (rating 30)	-	20
Electronics	Basic Military	2	1
Weapons	HP1: Particle beam	1	8
-	HP2: Particle beam	1	8
-	HP3: Plaser Triple turret	1	3
-	HP4: Plaser Triple turret	1	3
Crew Staterooms	3 individual (officers: Main Pilot, Navig, Medic)	12	1.5
-	4 double occupancy stateroms (rest of the crew)	16	2
Emergency Low Berths	4 people	1	0.1
Extras	Repair Drones	4	0.8
-	Fuel Scoops	-	-
-	Ship's Locker	-	-
-	Fuel Processors (60 tons/day)	3	0.15
-	Gig	20	44.732
-	15 escape pods	7.5	2.8
Software	Maneuver (rating 0)	-	-
-	Jump Control/3 (rating 15)	-	0.3
-	Auto Repair/1 (rating 10)	-	5
-	Fire Control/4 (rating 20)	-	8
-	Evade/1 (rating 10)	-	1
-	Library (rating 0)	-	-
Cargo	-	3.5	-
Totals	-	0	342.582 (283.012 in quantity)
Maintenance monthly costs	-	-	0.024
Crew Monthly Salaries	-	-	0.043
Montly Life Support	-	-	0.036
Monthly mortgage	-	-	1.179

[TD]Streamlined[/TD][TD]-[/TD][TD]-[/TD][TD]1.6[/TD]

Crew is 3 pilots (the main one is officer, another pilots the Gig as need), Navig, Medic, 2 Engineers and 4 gunners.

The gig may be any 20 dton craft you can design (but don't forget then to vary the price, as this one was for a TL 15 desing)

Hope that helps...

 

[Dagrill]

If we acept those fractionary kdt to be treated as such, a 500 ton ships with PP4 would be able to mount 2 bays, and with PP6 could have 3, as asked before (it was not purely rhetorical, Xerxes)...
And IIRC in MgT T&G msot ships comply with that for its bays...

Hi,

wandering off track somewhat, I have designed a Missile Boat at TL12 with six bays on a 600 ton hull:

Trexalon TC Sentinal Class Defence Station
Tech Level: 12 Class: Sentinal Type: Missile Monitor
Price
Tons (MCr)
600 ton Hull 12 Structure 12 0 48.00
Radiation Shielding 0 150.00
Armour Crystaliron (14 vs. Radiation) Factor 8 60 19.20
Maneuvre Drive Q Thrust 5 29 60.00
Power Plant T Power 6 55 144.00
Fuel 72 tons = 4 weeks operations 72 0.00
Bridge 20 3.00
Computer Model 4 Rating 20 0 5.00
Electronics: Basic Military sensors DM +0 2 1.00
Weapons: Bay x6 TL9 reduced size Missile Bank 186 144.00
1,440 Smart Missiles 3.6 MCr 120 0.00
10 Staterooms 7 double occupancy, 40 5.00
Ships Locker, Armoury 2 0.50
Software: Maneuvre, Library, Fire Control 4 0 8.00
Cargo 14 0.00
500 tons Cost 528.93 MCr in quantity 600 587.70

CREW: Captain(O4), XO(O3), Pilot(O2),
3 Officers 2 Engineers, 12 Gunners
14 Crew

COMMENTS


Obviously totally illegal in the OTU

Regards

David

 

[mike wightman]

Not illegal at all, it would fit right into TNE's ship paradigm

TNE didn't bother with hard points, you had to allocate surface area on the hull for apertures etc. and you needed internal volume for the weapon mechanisms etc.

I wonder what the real effect of scrapping HG (HG2 and MgT:HG) hardpoint limitations would really be? Bay weapons are mostly internal, the limitation(s) should be volume and energy (if applicable) based.

Maybe a good idea for a new thread...