Looking for a table for SDBs

[DonM]

JTAS #10 has a table for determining the number of defensive battalions a world can generate (for use with FFW). This table was corrected in MT's Rebellion Sourcebook...

i know there's a corresponding table for SDBs or SDB squadrons somewhere. I know one appears in T4's Imperial Squadrons, but I thought there was an earlier version somewhere...

Can someone point me to the table?

 

[jappel]

Hm, I am having the same fuzzy memory as you are. I thought it was in another JTAS issue. Don't have access to them here at the office, but can check when I get home.

Alternatively, are you in the CT-Starships group at Yahoo? I bet those folks have it, or can point you directly to the source.

 

[aramis]

Its not in MT-PM, MT-RM, MT-IE, MT-RC, MT-RbSB

 

[Carlobrand]

I don't recall ever seeing a table, but one can be derived from the FFW data:

TL:
Pop-----7----8----9---A----B----C-----D---E----F
1-------0----?----?----?----?----?-----?----0----?
2-------?----?----?----0----?----?-----?----0----?
3-------0----0----0----0----?----?-----?----?----?
4-------0----?----0----0----0----0-----0----0----?
5-------0----0----0----0----0----0-----0----?----?
6-------?----0----0----0----?----0-----?----?----?
7-------0----0----1----1----1----?-----?----?----?
8-------5----5---10---10---12---12----?----?----?
9------50---50----?---1C--120--120--150---?---2C
A-------?---5C---1K---1K----?----?----?----?----?

The table shows the known data derived from FFW. It shouldn't be all that difficult to deduce the missing data. Note that FFW delivers TL 7 SDBs, per High Guard.

 

[MCEvans]

I made copies of tables for Colonial Squadrons & numbers of SDBs.
Unfortunately I didn't note were I found them just put them in my computer spreadsheet prog.

The tables are based on Government & Population codes Min TL9

 

[DonM]

I don't recall ever seeing a table, but one can be derived from the FFW data:

TL:
Pop-----7----8----9---A----B----C-----D---E----F
1-------0----?----?----?----?----?-----?----0----?
2-------?----?----?----0----?----?-----?----0----?
3-------0----0----0----0----?----?-----?----?----?
4-------0----?----0----0----0----0-----0----0----?
5-------0----0----0----0----0----0-----0----?----?
6-------?----0----0----0----?----0-----?----?----?
7-------0----0----1----1----1----?-----?----?----?
8-------5----5---10---10---12---12----?----?----?
9------50---50----?---1C--120--120--150---?---2C
A-------?---5C---1K---1K----?----?----?----?----?

The table shows the known data derived from FFW. It shouldn't be all that difficult to deduce the missing data. Note that FFW delivers TL 7 SDBs, per High Guard.

Yes, but I swear I've seen this table in something before T4's Imperial Squadrons... and I'm really looking for that canon reference.

 

[The Oz]

Try looking here:

http://members.tip.net.au/~davidjw/tavspecs/maint/5fwforc.htm

The author admits that he reverse-engineered the table from the FFW data, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Carlobrand]

I made copies of tables for Colonial Squadrons & numbers of SDBs.
Unfortunately I didn't note were I found them just put them in my computer spreadsheet prog.

The tables are based on Government & Population codes Min TL9

Then those tables are not based on FFW. There's no evidence of government type influencing number of SDBs in FFW, and there are numerous examples of TL8 and TL7 worlds with SDBs.

However, I might point out that FFW numbers are quite low. REgina, for example, has a grand total of 10 SDBs serving a population of 700 million. That's something in the vicinity of 10 to 100 credits per person spent on a boat that should last a few years at least, a remarkably low budget given the danger they face - but increasing that would have put enough SDBs at the high-pop worlds (like Jewell) to make them nearly impossible to attack.

(Of course, that would better explain why the Zhodani had so much trouble there by canon.)

FFW SDBs were not intended to be a major factor in the game. If you want something more "realistic", it might be better to steer away from FFW as a source.

 

[MCEvans]

Then those tables are not based on FFW. There's no evidence of government type influencing number of SDBs in FFW, and there are numerous examples of TL8 and TL7 worlds with SDBs.

However, I might point out that FFW numbers are quite low. REgina, for example, has a grand total of 10 SDBs serving a population of 700 million. That's something in the vicinity of 10 to 100 credits per person spent on a boat that should last a few years at least, a remarkably low budget given the danger they face - but increasing that would have put enough SDBs at the high-pop worlds (like Jewell) to make them nearly impossible to attack.

(Of course, that would better explain why the Zhodani had so much trouble there by canon.)

FFW SDBs were not intended to be a major factor in the game. If you want something more "realistic", it might be better to steer away from FFW as a source.

I never said that the tables I have were based on FFW. Came out about that time though. I just don't remember were I found them.

 

[DonM]

Hm, I am having the same fuzzy memory as you are. I thought it was in another JTAS issue. Don't have access to them here at the office, but can check when I get home.

Alternatively, are you in the CT-Starships group at Yahoo? I bet those folks have it, or can point you directly to the source.

Heh -- I'm the moderator of CT-Starships... :rofl:

 

[McPerth]

I was looking for just such a table some time ago (before I joined COTI). I'm quite sure it's not anywere in MT (at least not on any published material that reached Barcelona).

Please, Don, when you find it, would you be so kind as to tell us where to find it?

 

[McPerth]

One thing that called my attention when researching for it was that in FFW Regina is shown as 10 SDB factors, and in the TNS JTAS 9 page 6 (first entry) is said all ten heavy SDBs, os hinting that the factors given in FFW are heavy SDBs only.

I don't recall ever seeing a table, but one can be derived from the FFW data:

TL:
Pop-----7----8----9---A----B----C-----D---E----F
1-------0----?----?----?----?----?-----?----0----?
2-------?----?----?----0----?----?-----?----0----?
3-------0----0----0----0----?----?-----?----?----?
4-------0----?----0----0----0----0-----0----0----?
5-------0----0----0----0----0----0-----0----?----?
6-------?----0----0----0----?----0-----?----?----?
7-------0----0----1----1----1----?-----?----?----?
8-------5----5---10---10---12---12----?----?----?
9------50---50----?---1C--120--120--150---?---2C
A-------?---5C---1K---1K----?----?----?----?----?

Then today's Earth (pop 9, TL 7-8) has about 50 SDB factors?

I wonder where are they hidden...:devil:

 

[rancke]

I might point out that FFW numbers are quite low. Regina, for example, has a grand total of 10 SDBs serving a population of 700 million. That's something in the vicinity of 10 to 100 credits per person spent on a boat that should last a few years at least, a remarkably low budget given the danger they face - but increasing that would have put enough SDBs at the high-pop worlds (like Jewell) to make them nearly impossible to attack.

This might be explained by changing SDB factors from 200T SDBs to SDB factors, each factor representing enough firepower to match whatever one CruRon or BatRon factor represents (a squadron of monitors, perhaps?)

(Yes, there is a TNS newsbrief that indicates that Regina only has 10 heavy SDBs. I suggest the implications of that newsbrief be ignored).

I also suggest reading the table as indicating the number of SDB factors for a population multiplier of 1, multiplying that number by the multiplier (giving, for instance, Regina 70 SDB factors).

(Of course, that would better explain why the Zhodani had so much trouble there by canon.)

By canon, the Zhodani had no trouble at Regina because they never got there. That is to say, all canon except one TNS newsbrief that could be interpreted as a bad joke. Everything else says the Zhodani never attacked Regina. (The one newsbrief that says that Regina had been attacked was datelined from Rhylanor and was expressly contradicted in authorial voice).


Hans

 

[jappel]

I have certainly come across the reverse-engineered table before, but I thought for sure there was a canon reference somewhere. Didn't get a chance to dig through my stuff last night though.

Don, totally spaced on you being the mod of CT-Starships.

 

[Carlobrand]

...Then today's Earth (pop 9, TL 7-8) has about 50 SDB factors?

I wonder where are they hidden...:devil:

That would be the occasional reports of undersea UFOs you catch in the news. Government doesn't want us to know about them.

This might be explained by changing SDB factors from 200T SDBs to SDB factors, each factor representing enough firepower to match whatever one CruRon or BatRon factor represents (a squadron of monitors, perhaps?)

(Yes, there is a TNS newsbrief that indicates that Regina only has 10 heavy SDBs. I suggest the implications of that newsbrief be ignored).

I also suggest reading the table as indicating the number of SDB factors for a population multiplier of 1, multiplying that number by the multiplier (giving, for instance, Regina 70 SDB factors).

I always figured an SDB at about 1000-1500 tons - gives it some size advantage per HG rules and larger numbers while allowing it to field F9 missiles, and I prefer to interpret the FFW info as referring to squadrons of 10-20 SDBs rather than individual boats. Not exactly canon, but I can't see any other way they'd have the impact on battle fleets that FFW allows them to have.

I like that second suggestion. Again, FFW needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

By canon, the Zhodani had no trouble at Regina because they never got there. That is to say, all canon except one TNS newsbrief that could be interpreted as a bad joke. Everything else says the Zhodani never attacked Regina. (The one newsbrief that says that Regina had been attacked was datelined from Rhylanor and was expressly contradicted in authorial voice).

Oops, vague reference. "There" = Jewell. Sorry to cause confusion.

I actually interpreted the TNS brief as standard wartime confusion. Happens all the time in the early shock of war. And then of course there's the "Dewey beats Truman" stuff, where for one reason or another - poor sources, hurrying to press with half the info needed, some reporter's wishful thinking - the paper puts out something that turns out to be dead wrong.

 

[MCEvans]

The Regina TAS dispatch stated that all 10 Heavy SDBs not that all the SDBs in the system were dispatched/launched. Which in my limited thinking is that there has to be several light and medium SDBs somewhere in system.

Just an observation.

 

[rancke]

The Regina TAS dispatch stated that all 10 Heavy SDBs not that all the SDBs in the system were dispatched/launched. Which in my limited thinking is that there has to be several light and medium SDBs somewhere in system.

Even heavy SDBs are small fry. To stand up to CruRons and BatRons you need monitors. 10 heavy SDBs would be toast if they went up aganst a single cruiser (Well... they might be able to handle one light cruiser with one or two surviving).


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

What if a heavy SDB is a monitor...

 

[MCEvans]

Depends on were located ... inside a GG could remove a CruRon or BatRon ability to refuel or take out a Capital ship or two thanks to gravity.

I always thought that an SDBs role was to deny not head on confrontations with capital ships.

Besides my post was to point out that Regina should/probability has more than 10 SDBs

 

[Carlobrand]

Even heavy SDBs are small fry. To stand up to CruRons and BatRons you need monitors. 10 heavy SDBs would be toast if they went up aganst a single cruiser (Well... they might be able to handle one light cruiser with one or two surviving).


Hans

In the strictest technical sense, I suspect more of them will find themselves stripped of weapons rather than toasted, but I'd still call the contest for the cruiser.