pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Sadly, I think some people have missed the point. By definition, things without jump drives are boats. Even a 250,000 dton monitor. Therefore even a 250 kiloton monitor is an SDB.
Looking for a table for SDBs
- Thread starter DonM
- Start date
If they'd intended battleship-size monitors or even cruiser-size monitors as the SDB norm, they'd have used the same table for SDBs as for ships - no need for a special SDB vs Squadron table, no need for a Squadron vs SDB bombardment table.
Also, the only example of SDBs on the tactical space combat scale - Invasion Earth - makes it pretty clear they are both numerous and fairly small in comparison to the battle squadron: "A SDB wing represents a fighting formation of about 50 system defense boats. These small craft are designed for the defense of a stellar system..." These SDBs use a different table and are capable of landing and hiding in Earth's planetary oceans, while the Solomani's non-jump squadrons (which are either monitors, battle squadrons ordered not to jump out, or battle squadrons incapable of jump - battleriders or damaged battleships) are not able to hide on the planet and use a squadron combat table essentially identical to the FFW table.
That's not to say there might be one or two such somewhere in our individual TU: Supplement 9 shows us a 50k planetoid monitor serving Mora's system defense needs (and later "acquired" by Rorise, a world with a population of 50 people and therefore too small to afford any kind of SDB force - perhaps the Marches colonial administration arranged it as part of a piracy suppression effort). However, the norm throughout canon is clearly some sort of boat whose primary mode of combat involves something other than a spinal mount (therefore requiring its own table) and who present such problems for an enemy using the spinal mount that the enemy resorts to bombardment (therefore likely small and agile) - and who are small enough that bombardment is the more effective tactic to eliminate them (therefore, again, likely small).
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
What "SDB vs" table are you talking about? There is no such thing in CT or Book 5. And all you have to do is look at the outcomes of a BATRON of 250k non jump capable SDBs vs even 400k Battleships (I used book 5 and Trillion Credit) to see why a few key systems would certainly have such a squadron of SDBs.
If you are talking about a table from a board game, board games have to make limiting decisions to make finite tables to fit in a game.
By the definition, a table is based on a series of limiting assumptions. After all, the idea is to achieve an easy reference. If not, you end up trying to find one outcome in a virtually infinite table/matrix.
If you are talking about a table from a board game, board games have to make limiting decisions to make finite tables to fit in a game.
By the definition, a table is based on a series of limiting assumptions. After all, the idea is to achieve an easy reference. If not, you end up trying to find one outcome in a virtually infinite table/matrix.
Sadly, I think YOU have missed the point:
OP is looking for a table generating numbers of SDBs a world can generate. That does not exist at all in CT books 1 through 5, supplements, adventures, etc. It exists in the games and in articles based on the games. Ergo, he is looking for the "table ... based on a series of limiting assumptions," and that is the topic of the thread. This led to discussions about the reliability of those tables and thoughts on how to rectify their weaknesses.
As to the qualities of battle-riders/monitors - and that's basically what you're describing - I think everyone appreciates how effective they can be. However, that wasn't the topic. The topic was the tables, the tables evolved from the games, and the tables are clearly drawn from the assumption of SDBs as rather small warcraft.
Now, if you'd like to suggest to OP that he abandon his search for the tables and instead contrive his own methods based on the assumption that system defenses center on battle-riders/monitors, have fun. However, canon is clear on the subject:
"System Defense Boat: A non-starship specifically intended for defensive operations inside a star system. ... System Defense Boats range in size from 100 to 1000 tons and are constructed at all tech levels from 8 to 15. ..." (Supplement 11 - Library Data N-Z)
Hi Don! The OZ has already pointed out my reverse-engineered SDB table (thank you!)
Carlobrand points out, correctly, that the numbers are ridiculously small (e.g. 10 SDBs for Regina), even if it does match the TAS news report that "all 10 heavy SDBs are vectored to the GG". On my page, I noted that Hans pointed out the same thing, especially that the Pop multiplier never came into play. However, you can fix things a little by assuming the "heavy SDBs" are not the eponymous PC-scale 400-tonners, but instead are the 1000-ton SDBs found in the Travellers' Digest (issue 7, "The Fourth Imperium", from memory? the one where a Depot is attacked, anyway). This matches Carlobrand's later suggestion.
Hans, does that help a little? It makes a bit more sense that the Louzy (I think) SDB force scattered and were able to avoid being totally destroyed - enabling them to remain as a harrying force "behind the lines", forcing the Zhos to garrision the system more heavily. I don't think a set of small SDB's would be able to do much of anything apart from scouting/monitoring.
Now that would be cool. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it'd likely correlate in some way with the planetary battalions or SDBs, on the basis that more budget for groundpounders and system defenses would imply more budget for other defenses.
Meson spinals range in price from as little as MCr 400 to as much as MCr 10,000, with cost decreasing as TL increases, so TL would be a factor in their strength. Easiest to craft FFW variant rules around them since you'd just have to figure a way to tap into the ship combat table. They're targetted by computers, so you'd need to do the TL offset.
Except - what if the fight isn't around the primary? What if the fleets are battling at the Gas Giant? Might need some rule that allows the defending fleet to huddle within range of the "shore batteries," which might mean a situation in which combat might not occur when opposing fleets occupy the same hex: the defending player declares his intent to stay close to his planet, the attacker opts to take the gas giant and leave the planet for later (or just to hang out in deep space until he can marshall enough forces to attack the planet).
Or, maybe they should only apply in a turn in which the enemy fleet is landing troops.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I'm not sure how to do it, but I like the idea of a "standoff" between an invading fleet and a defending force including deep meson guns. That is kind of how I've always imagined the siege(s) of Jewell, with the defenders mostly huddled aound the mainworld and its DMG's, while the invaders try to blockade the 100D limit and make quick raids to hit planetary targets or drop troops.
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