CT Only: Maximum Number of Skills

[tancred]

I'm pretty sure I've seen the rule somewhere that a character may not have more skill levels than the sum of their education and intelligence.
It is specifically mentioned for robots on pages 35 and 45 of Book 8.

But I cannot anywhere find the actual rule for characters (other than the passing mention on p.45 of Robots that this is the same limitation that any Traveller character has).

I've looked all through Books 1-3, and just can't find it.
Can anyone tell me where that rule is?
Thanks in advance.

 

[mike wightman]

You won't find it in LBBs 1-3 because it was introduced after the '81revised version. I first noticed it in an Alien module, can't remember exactly which one
It does appear in the Traveller Book and Starter edition which were based on the '81 edition but contained slight rules changes and additions.

It is a silly rule for CT IMHO, especially when you can find many NPCs in 1001 characters and Veterans that break it

One of the whole points of CT was that skills matter more than attributes, if you manage to survive 7 terms of character generation and gather 14+ skills you'll be a bit annoyed that your roll of 5 for Int and 3 for Edu mean you can't learn any more than 8

I never use it.

If you do use it I would suggest modifying it to max skills = Int + Edu + no. of terms served.

 

[McPerth]

You won't find it in LBBs 1-3 because it was introduced in an Alien module.

But you'll find in TTB, page 29:

Maximum skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) tan the sum of his or her intelligence and education.

Worth to note is the general rule of thumb reference...

 

[MCEvans]

I always thought that was a 'house rule' that got accepted as cannon, I personally ignore it.

As for robots that makes sense, PCs no.

One thing I like from T5, if I understand it right, is that skills & knowledges can drop if not used. You know, "Use it or lose it."
This can balance out highly skilled PCs that only use some of there skill set from character generation. I would keep notes on the original skill level and if needed in an emergency 1/2 the original level or 1, which ever is grater for that time and if the PC wanted to get back to their old level 1 month of study per point to get back up to speed in that skill.

EDIT: I have TTB and still missed it. Oh, well.

 

[atpollard]

I always thought that was a 'house rule' that got accepted as cannon, I personally ignore it.

As for robots that makes sense, PCs no.

I always liked it and, personally, I carry it one step further ... I limit the maximum level of any skill to the number of terms served.

 

[samuelvss]

I always use it, but do the reduction at the character's direction after muster. It seems to make sense to me. To be really good at a lot, one has to be exceptional.

 

[MCEvans]

I always liked it and, personally, I carry it one step further ... I limit the maximum level of any skill to the number of terms served.

Does that include pre-service terms, like say 'college' & medical school?

 

[SpaceBadger]

As McPerth noted, it is in TTB.

I ignore it anyway, because there are plenty of valid SF-standard characters that it would exclude: the grizzled veteran soldier w exceptional skills in Gun Cbt, Tactics, VaccSuit, etc just through experience during career, despite low Int and Edu; the Barbarian, similarly skilled w weapons, Recon, Survival; the street-kid prodigy w little formal Edu who has Streetwise, Intrusion, Bribery, Brawling, etc...

The only real need for it is if you don't like the huge numbers of skills from Advanced Chargen systems (Merc, HG, Scout, Merchant Prince) and want some rule for reducing them. atpollard's rule of limiting any skill to max of terms served helps. I've recently started using point-buy for this, not so much in the career process of building the character but as a limitation on skills to cut them down to something reasonable after careers are finished. Go ahead and build your character w chargen of preference, but then afterward reduce skills to what you could buy w 18 points. I like the results from that, a naturally built character, but not a skill-monster in everything. (And if you don't like my version of point-buy, consider Bloo's Point-Buy system (although it is designed for use during careers, not afterward).

 

[whulorigan]

I always use it, but do the reduction at the character's direction after muster. It seems to make sense to me. To be really good at a lot, one has to be exceptional.

If you are going to use the rule, I would say that this is the way to go, but I would add that a skill should never be "lost" by reducing it at the end of CharGen, only reduced to level-0 default, minimum. In that way, there are still no limits to the number of skills you can have (since level-0 skills do not add into the maximum skill-levels computation), you will just not be great at all of them (as someone else said, if you don't use it, you lose it - just not completely as if you had never been trained in the first place).

I also rather like[FONT=arial,helvetica] atpollard's idea of limiting a skill's level to the maximum of number of terms served (including terms of prior education).
[/FONT]

 

[atpollard]

Does that include pre-service terms, like say 'college' & medical school?

Yes.

 

[HiverLord]

I limit the maximum level of any skill to the number of terms served.

I've always hated skill limits, and never use them in my campaigns...

But I LIKE this one. (Seems obvious after seeing someone else think of it. Doh! )

Consider it borrowed.

 

[arbitrary.remora]

We use the INT and EDU cap. Since we're pretty much Book 1 and Supp 4 it seldom makes an issue.
However I allow players to take (not roll) an +X Int or Edu from the Mustering out table if it looks like it might be an issue.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

...there are plenty of valid SF-standard characters that it would exclude: the grizzled veteran soldier w exceptional skills in Gun Cbt, Tactics, VaccSuit, etc just through experience during career, despite low Int and Edu; the Barbarian, similarly skilled w weapons, Recon, Survival; the street-kid prodigy w little formal Edu who has Streetwise, Intrusion, Bribery, Brawling, etc...

The real problem with the limitation is that we don't consider "intelligence" or "education" to figure into what should be essentially muscle-memory training, instead of knowledge. I tried to come up with a way to distinguish between the two types of skills, but it created a stupid amount of bookkeeping.

In that way, there are still no limits to the number of skills you can have

Except your number of skills is also limited by the total. The text does not specify combining the two (skills and levels), though many people do so.

Does that include pre-service terms, like say 'college' & medical school?

Personally, I would also include the "background term" as a term for that purpose.

 

[Shonner]

I don't use the INT + EDU rule since I don't allow characters to improve during a game.

Except your number of skills is also limited by the total. The text does not specify combining the two (skills and levels), though many people do so.

Whenever players error with the rules, they always error on their side. Ever notice that? They never error unfavorably for their character. So that is a clue that they are doing the rules wrong. See Gun Combat(Any) 1 meaning gaining a level 1 for all gun skills by a lot of players (can be read two ways, both of which help the player greatly).

 

[samuelvss]

The real problem with the limitation is that we don't consider "intelligence" or "education" to figure into what should be essentially muscle-memory training, instead of knowledge.

I would say that there are few such, purely. Training and education are always going to have an edge; ballistics is a part of Combat Rifleman, for instance. The more "trainable" someone is, the readily that person can gain levels of this. However, to the extent that physical characteristics play into it, someone with Combat Rifleman-3 and DEX 5 is worse off than one with Combat Rifleman-1, and DEX 11, under CT rules.

 

[rancke]

The real problem with the limitation is that we don't consider "intelligence" or "education" to figure into what should be essentially muscle-memory training, instead of knowledge. I tried to come up with a way to distinguish between the two types of skills, but it created a stupid amount of bookkeeping.

I divided skills into physical, mental, and practical (the last were skills like Mechanical and Electronics) and allowed characters STR+DEX physical skill levels, INT+EDU mental skill levels, and STR+DEX+INT+EDU total skill levels (i.e. practical skills could be counted against both the physical and the mental skill limit). Only bookkeeping involved was assigning categories.


Hans

 

[aramis]

I don't use the INT + EDU rule since I don't allow characters to improve during a game.

Whenever players error with the rules, they always error on their side. Ever notice that? They never error unfavorably for their character.

Wrong, at least as an absolute.

I've had PNewman and Shadowbear both do so in my games, and Cryton had a couple other players prone to doing so.

Like the pair who insisted the TNE d20 reroll 16-19 had to be wrong, and that it had to be roll a d10.

Now, I've had players ask if they had to keep the level 0 in the skill they didn't want when I ran CT.

 

[Shonner]

Now, I've had players ask if they had to keep the level 0 in the skill they didn't want when I ran CT.

That's cool. Players not wanting a skill. Do you give them a medal for erroring honestly instead of looking for ways to cheat?

 

[aramis]

That's cool. Players not wanting a skill. Do you give them a medal for erroring honestly instead of looking for ways to cheat?

No, but if it's a Marine, I do require them to keep Cutlass-0, and Merchants, Scout, Marine, or Navy, must keep Vacc Suit 0. Some things are just not fodder for forgetting.

I've always used the Experience limit, since my first rulebook was the Traveller Book.