Maybe a Snub Pistol example
- Thread starter gchuck
- Start date
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Muzzle velocity is dead slow, one reason you need a heavier bullet, and that larger diameter, presumably at higher technological levels, lends itself more to a shaped charge.
You probably could see the bullet coming and read your name on it.
You probably could see the bullet coming and read your name on it.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Aren't they just hyped up paintball guns?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I'm not sure anymore.
They've evolved into derringers, submachineguns and carbines.
Considering that barrel length has changed, are the bullets still using the same propellant?
Does the propellant charge have enough force for semi automatic action?
They've evolved into derringers, submachineguns and carbines.
Considering that barrel length has changed, are the bullets still using the same propellant?
Does the propellant charge have enough force for semi automatic action?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The five millimetre round from the survival rifle is supposed to be the twenty two long rifle, until recently dirt cheap to purchase.
If damage of the default ten millimetre snub round is 2d6-2, and the five millimtre (rifle barrel) is 2d6-1, you probably get a better bang for buck by using a twenty two calibre semi automatic pistol, getting real close, and shooting some unprotected part.
If damage of the default ten millimetre snub round is 2d6-2, and the five millimtre (rifle barrel) is 2d6-1, you probably get a better bang for buck by using a twenty two calibre semi automatic pistol, getting real close, and shooting some unprotected part.
If I were going for the CT/Striker version, it would be the HEAP round or one of the gas/tranq rounds.
In CT terms it would do 4D damage, equal to a Gauss Rifle, for both HE and HEAP, pretty good penetration for most everything and could hurt a BD.
For CT/Striker HEAP was 6 penetration, cloth is 5 CES is 6 and first level of CA is 8. So, pretty good. HE round was 1 but there is a special HE damage add-on rule so it's better then first glance. Just VERY short ranged.
It was listed as 10mm.
I like having an IMTU SMG that uses a snub tube as an ersatz add-on grenade launcher. Could be good to add onto a laser too.
So I don't have memorized what the MgTs do to it, but if it's like a .22 it's been downgraded.
In CT terms it would do 4D damage, equal to a Gauss Rifle, for both HE and HEAP, pretty good penetration for most everything and could hurt a BD.
For CT/Striker HEAP was 6 penetration, cloth is 5 CES is 6 and first level of CA is 8. So, pretty good. HE round was 1 but there is a special HE damage add-on rule so it's better then first glance. Just VERY short ranged.
It was listed as 10mm.
I like having an IMTU SMG that uses a snub tube as an ersatz add-on grenade launcher. Could be good to add onto a laser too.
So I don't have memorized what the MgTs do to it, but if it's like a .22 it's been downgraded.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Those are the comparative statistics between the respective default snub pistol and survival rifle rounds.
Parabellum nine millimetre, especially the newly developed rounds, are able to take down a human; ten millimetre, a bear. Velocity for snub ten millimetre is dead slow, and potentially lethal, much as a twenty two long rifle has been proven to be lethal to a bear, up close and in the correct place, by a proven marks(wo)man.
The real point of the snub pistol is non perceivable recoil and an explosive payload; or gas or tranquilizer round.
Using an explosive round against a human is likely illegal in most jurisdictions.
I don't think I've seen the hollow point option in Traveller.
Parabellum nine millimetre, especially the newly developed rounds, are able to take down a human; ten millimetre, a bear. Velocity for snub ten millimetre is dead slow, and potentially lethal, much as a twenty two long rifle has been proven to be lethal to a bear, up close and in the correct place, by a proven marks(wo)man.
The real point of the snub pistol is non perceivable recoil and an explosive payload; or gas or tranquilizer round.
Using an explosive round against a human is likely illegal in most jurisdictions.
I don't think I've seen the hollow point option in Traveller.
All reasonable points although I wouldn't be counting on a .22LR against a bear. Still a downgrade from the snub's original conception and rated power. By way of example most rifles and magnum revolvers are 3D, you don't get Striker slugthrower punch at pen 6 until the ACR with DS and the HMG (and of course the LAG, but I look at that as one iteration of the ATR/anti-material-sniper weapon).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Twenty two long rifle exist, and we know their capability, though how that translates into dry game statistics, I couldn't say.
Has anyone ever manufactured snub rounds and the corresponding handgun? Because one place you could use them on is airplanes.
Has anyone ever manufactured snub rounds and the corresponding handgun? Because one place you could use them on is airplanes.
Explosive rounds, even snub, would be contra-indicated on an aircraft...
Most "Air Marshal" services use some variant of the 9mm round these days. Given current technology and ballistics there is really no appreciable end-difference between 9mm/10mm/.40S&W/.45 ACP in actual terminal performance from a handgun. It comes down to shot placement and overloading the target nervous system until exsanguination is sufficient OR a suitable level of damage to the brain in order to achieve the desired effects.
Similarly, the real concern is avoiding collateral damage to passengers/crew/vital aircraft systems. Despite what the movies portray, in general a few rounds from a handgun punching through the aircraft skin are not likely to cause a catastrophic failure, even at altitude.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's sort of interesting that everyone thinks first of explosive rounds when discussing about Traveller snub pistols.
I meant default vanilla bullets; though I do believe air marshals use hollow point, considering both where they are, and the unlikelihood being able to smuggle onboard body armour.
I meant default vanilla bullets; though I do believe air marshals use hollow point, considering both where they are, and the unlikelihood being able to smuggle onboard body armour.
I think the point of the explosive round is something with high damage and low penetration. It's a bit moot because you have to have SOME penetration, even if it's explosive. I wouldn't want small explosions happening on the front my chest, mind, but if you want actual efficacy, it's better to have these things go off behind the rib cage.
It's easy to consider an explosive round as being resistant to OVER penetration, however. Once it hits something, anything, a few micro seconds later it explodes. So if one were to hit an interior bulkhead, it may go through but won't travel very far after that.
It's easy to consider an explosive round as being resistant to OVER penetration, however. Once it hits something, anything, a few micro seconds later it explodes. So if one were to hit an interior bulkhead, it may go through but won't travel very far after that.
The one US Air Marshal I have known was using 9mm Glaser Safety Slug (thin wall hollowpoint filled w/ #12 shot, capped with polycarbonate). Typically doesn't pass through the exterior wall of an aircraft, provided the round hits the interior.
For Traveller purposes? if using CT, the Glaser probably should use the shotgun armor mods, and the range mods of the firing weapon
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I would suppose that would depend on which shotgun gauge; in game terms, I'd add an extra dice of damage.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
The closest thing to a snub pistol today is likely the Taurus Judge .410 revolver. While with a snub pistol, the cylinder is likely shorter, the concept is pretty much identical. You can buy flechette and incendiary (aka "Dragon's Breath") for it along with conventional shotgun rounds, among other specialty types. If you assume these rounds are more effective at higher TL, and more variety is available, this pistol is the exact concept of a snub pistol.
Yes, Air Marshals (at least in the US) are using a hollow point round. This has far less to do with concerns of running into body armor wearing opponents, and far more to do with terminal ballistics.
Some Doctors have described Glaser hits as a .410 gauge contact wound.
They can be very nasty, but on larger people less so because they don't have overall penetration. But they behave well in places where over penetration can be a problem, and they don't ricochet well either. It's basically a small blob of bird shot waiting to hit something that disrupts it and lets it free, where it loses power quickly.
They can be very nasty, but on larger people less so because they don't have overall penetration. But they behave well in places where over penetration can be a problem, and they don't ricochet well either. It's basically a small blob of bird shot waiting to hit something that disrupts it and lets it free, where it loses power quickly.
Glaser rounds have not been used for a very long time. There's far more concerns about over penetration of a human target, or of hitting the wrong target, than of penetrating the skin of the aircraft. JHP rounds and/or frangible rounds tend to be the current go-to among serious people.
As much as I don't care for the Judge, you're not wrong... And, with that length of cylinder, you theoretically have room for a gas piston type setup to counter that recoil in zero-g...
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