Mercator - Trading Adventures in the Ancient World

[Supplement Four]

20 denarii for that leathern vest you say? Pah! I won't give you anymore than 17 denarii and a thimble full of salt!

Great gods of the Empire, brother! What work! What work!

Excellent job, my friend. Amazing. I'm raisin my Coca-Cola can to you in salute.

Say...you wouldn't be rich and be able to buy out Mongoose's contract, would you? I'd love to see official stuff like this with supplements and adventures.

I just went to Italy and Greece a couple of months ago, and it's ignited my interest in this time period.

Bravo, Paul. Bravo.

 

[Mithras]

Many thanks, I am a Roman history nut, even written a book about it recently (The Last Legionary)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Legion...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262370380&sr=1-2

Somewhere I have a Mercenary Book 4 version purely for a Roman legionary, rolling for assignments year by year, trying to stay alive, get yourself educated or promoted into the centurianate. I consider the advanced systems RPGs in themselves, whether you use the characters again later on or not...

 

[FreeTrav]

This is cool. I'll have to look again to see if I have any suggestions.

Well, except the following: most Roman citizens died in their 40s, right? So, shouldn't all characters begin at about age 14, instead of just barbarians? And shouldn't Daggers do 1d damage, and swords 3d?

On the age thing, that's a common misconception. The reason that the "Average life expectancy" was so low was because infant mortality was so high - if you made it to about your sixth birthday, you had a very good chance of making it to your sixtieth. There's a reason that the Bible speaks about 'threescore years and ten' as being the years of life allocated to a man - if you got to the point where you were a productive member of society, you probably WOULD live about that long.

That said, a person was expected to be a functioning member of society - effectively, an adult - at a distinctly earlier age than we do now. Jewish males were [and still are, religiously] considered adult at the ceremony of bar mitzvah, at age 13 (and females at menarche, usually about age 12); I don't think it's unreasonable to make the 'enlistment' age for all characters 14 - and it's not unlikely that a well-grown 'barbarian' child would have joined hunting parties (though perhaps not become a warrior) as early as 10 or 11.

On the weapons thing... I think that it can be argued either way, depending on whether you're looking fpr accuracy or simplicity. I would argue for accuracy, especially as you're not going to have whole categories of weapons (no energy weapons, probably no chemical projectile weapons [I haven't read it yet, though I've downloaded it]).

(and I still want the stuff I mentioned in my previous post on this thread!)

 

[FreeTrav]

Somewhere I have a Mercenary Book 4 version purely for a Roman legionary, rolling for assignments year by year, trying to stay alive, get yourself educated or promoted into the centurianate. I consider the advanced systems RPGs in themselves, whether you use the characters again later on or not...

I. Want. This. For. Freelance. Traveller. As part of the theme issue built around your entire Mercator game concept. Along with the other stuff I've requested. This is just too good an idea to NOT theme an issue with.

editor@freelancetraveller.com. I'll be waiting for it. Them.

 

[Mithras]

I dare not ignore this post

Certainly I will happily send you my Mercator design notes etc; I'll have to dig deep perhaps into handwritten hardcopy for the Roman Mercenary Rules .... <gulp> ...

I. Want. This. For. Freelance. Traveller. As part of the theme issue built around your entire Mercator game concept. Along with the other stuff I've requested. This is just too good an idea to NOT theme an issue with.

editor@freelancetraveller.com. I'll be waiting for it. Them.

 

[the angle]

Well, except the following: most Roman citizens died in their 40s, right?

This is not true; it's an oddity of statistics. The "average life expectancy" is typically calculated as an average of everyone's life span. In times and places with high infant mortality, all those young deaths skew the average downward artificially. If you survived infancy and childhood, you could easily live well into your 50s or 60s in the classical and middle ages, and many people lived considerably longer than that.

Steve

 

[rancke]

This is not true; it's an oddity of statistics. The "average life expectancy" is typically calculated as an average of everyone's life span. In times and places with high infant mortality, all those young deaths skew the average downward artificially. If you survived infancy and childhood, you could easily live well into your 50s or 60s in the classical and middle ages, and many people lived considerably longer than that.

Hence the Bible stating that a man's allotted life is 70 years.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Actually, for Rome, the ages of skeletons do NOT show an average adult lifespan ot 60-70... but of 40-50. Only for the plebians is it 60-70; both slaves (30-50) and patricians (40-50) died younger, and for very different reasons; the roman data I've seen is much longer tailed, however, than the medieval data...

Likewise, the Domesday survey in England shows a clear drop after 40. Most families had a generational span of 15 to 20 years, and only a few had more than 3 generations alive; many serfs didn't know their grandparents.

Also, very little of the data incorporates infant mortality, gents... it wasn't recorded, and the skeletons generally don't survive, so the data is hard to obtain. The guideline from my history classes was, "don't count them 'til age 8"... because infant mortality vs lifespan are only loosely correlated, and including infant mortality skews the population expectations strongly downward until the 20th C, as well as the difficulties of obtaining those data.

 

[Jame]

That said, a person was expected to be a functioning member of society - effectively, an adult - at a distinctly earlier age than we do now. Jewish males were [and still are, religiously] considered adult at the ceremony of bar mitzvah, at age 13 (and females at menarche, usually about age 12); I don't think it's unreasonable to make the 'enlistment' age for all characters 14 - and it's not unlikely that a well-grown 'barbarian' child would have joined hunting parties (though perhaps not become a warrior) as early as 10 or 11.

That reminds me; I did read somewhere that the Legions wanted its men to be about 18, with height and weight standards and a preference for farmboys.

 

[FreeTrav]

Ummm... Great job, but SERIOUS Whoops! here...

I finished it at last! And I'm not going back to change anything (although the armour prices are too low - its nagging at me already ...) [EDIT: done]

http://zozer.weebly.com/uploads/3/4/3/3/3433372/mercator2.pdf

It is a complete 56 page rules conversion of the Classic Traveller rules-set, turning it from interstellar trade to trade in the Roman Empire! New career tables allow you to roll up centurions from Rome, thieves from Antioch and even tribunes from Caesarea! Of course there are rules for ancient trade, for sailing and weather and also for encounters and equipment in the Roman Empire. Trade in Aramis for Alexandria, Efate for Ephesus and Kinorb for Corinth!

OK, I've finally gone through this. You've done a fantastic job, one to be proud of - but there's one serious problem:

You've also done serious legal violence to Marc's intellectual property.

What I mean is that if I have this document, I don't need the core [Classic] Traveller rules (books 1 to 3) to run a game in the Roman Empire environment. That's a hard-core violation of even the most liberal interpretation of Fair Use. I strongly suggest that you go to Mongoose's web site and download the Traveller Developer Pack, and read Marc's Fair Use Policy.

Not following it could cause problems not just for you, but for the entire community - Marc could decide, in effect, "the hell with it" and just outright forbid any fan-written material to be distributed without his personal and explicit approval, which would kill the community. Really. I don't think he would - but do you really want to take the risk?

Here's what I suggest you do:

1. Withdraw the product, with an apology and an explanation - in your own words - of what I just said above.
2. Put out a new SUPPLEMENT - something that I need to own Books 1-3 to be able to use - that explains how to MODIFY what's in those books to accommodate the Roman Empire/Mare Nostrum campaign.
3. Put out FURTHER setting supplements: One for the central Mare Nostrum, (essentially, Greece to Italy), one for the western Mare Nostrum (Italy to Gibraltar), and further ones - I can come up with at least seven more - for LAND-centric campaigns.
4. Enjoy the acclaim that you will STILL receive - as I said, you've done a fantastic job; now let's make it legal!

I'll comment a bit more in a separate post in the future - there are some things that I think you can and should change without 'breaking' Traveller.

 

[Mithras]

To be fair, I sent a copy to Marc via Far Future several months ago, asking if I needed to modify it or add anything to the inside cover. Though I recieved no reply from him.

In fact the first place I went was here: http://www.farfuture.net/FFEFairUsePolicy2008.pdf

I have explicitly not described the character creation process, and refer to Book 1 many times. There are no rules for skills, no combat rules, no trade rules. It is frankly unplayable without Book 1, 2 and 3. (OK, maybe not 3).

In addition, you'll need Supplement 4 for the bow stats ...

I'll email him again ...

 

[Supplement Four]

In addition, you'll need Supplement 4 for the bow stats ...

These are also located in the Spinward Marches Campaign supplement.

 

[FreeTrav]

I'll acknowledge that I may have been reading more into it that I should have been - if I have - and I'll try to go through it WITHOUT "accessing my Traveller background" - then I apologize for inducing even mild panic. As long as you NEED books 1 and 2, you should be fine as far as Fair Use goes.

But you still need the other nine or ten setting supplements, at least!

 

[Mithras]

No Jeff, thanks for the heads-up, I am a total neophyte when it comes to legalese. But I received a reply from Mr Miller, who said:

"I saw this item and I liked it a lot."

"It becomes a copyright violation only if I don't like it, so that doesn't seem to be a problem."

I guess that's cool

I'll acknowledge that I may have been reading more into it that I should have been - if I have - and I'll try to go through it WITHOUT "accessing my Traveller background" - then I apologize for inducing even mild panic. As long as you NEED books 1 and 2, you should be fine as far as Fair Use goes.

But you still need the other nine or ten setting supplements, at least!

 

[robject]

No Jeff, thanks for the heads-up, I am a total neophyte when it comes to legalese. But I received a reply from Mr Miller, who said:

"I saw this item and I liked it a lot."

"It becomes a copyright violation only if I don't like it, so that doesn't seem to be a problem."

I guess that's cool

As soon as I saw your "I'm finished" post, I forwarded a copy on to Marc and Don.

 

[Shonner]

No Jeff, thanks for the heads-up, I am a total neophyte when it comes to legalese. But I received a reply from Mr Miller, who said:

"I saw this item and I liked it a lot."

"It becomes a copyright violation only if I don't like it, so that doesn't seem to be a problem."

I guess that's cool

Mr. Miller tends to be a rather private person. No news back from him is good news. He'll release the hounds if he doesn't like something shown to him.

 

[sabredog]

Beautiful work!!!!

I only have two suggestions:

1) The Roman javelin (pilum) was designed with softer metal in the shaft so as to bend and make it hard to remove from a shield. This forced the opponent to drop the shield. A common tactic was to throw the pilum en mass at the enemy and then advance with gladius, or possibly with a second pilum until that one was discarded. This way the opponents lost a lot of their protection by the time the swords came in.

Maybe you could add a rule that if a javelin of this type is parried by using the defender's DM that round the shield is no longer applicable for defense?

Or maybe the current parry DM rule could still be used (since parrying was used by swords and other weapons, not just shields) and a shield could add an extra DM for parrying and/or an extra +1 to armor DMs? Then if they lose the shield (or can't use one due to weight or attributes not being high enough) then they lose some level of protection but not be completely unable to defend themselves with a weapon they might be at level 5 with.

2) In naval combat the Roman ships had the corvus; a plank dropped onto the enemy ship and mounted on a turntable. It had a heavy iron spike called the "beak" that slammed down and punched deep into the deck to allow the troops to storm across and the ships were locked together unless the corvus was winched up or cut loose.

You might add something like that to the combat rules for ships trying to disengage after ramming, or when in contact. A corvus could be dropped after a ship attempts oar shearing, or in lieu of ramming (you wouldn't want to be locked to a sinking ship).

Anyway...just some thoughts from a naval warfare grognard.

 

[aramis]

OK, I've finally gone through this. You've done a fantastic job, one to be proud of - but there's one serious problem:

You've also done serious legal violence to Marc's intellectual property.

What I mean is that if I have this document, I don't need the core [Classic] Traveller rules (books 1 to 3) to run a game in the Roman Empire environment. That's a hard-core violation of even the most liberal interpretation of Fair Use. I strongly suggest that you go to Mongoose's web site and download the Traveller Developer Pack, and read Marc's Fair Use Policy.

Not following it could cause problems not just for you, but for the entire community - Marc could decide, in effect, "the hell with it" and just outright forbid any fan-written material to be distributed without his personal and explicit approval, which would kill the community. Really. I don't think he would - but do you really want to take the risk?

Here's what I suggest you do:

1. Withdraw the product, with an apology and an explanation - in your own words - of what I just said above.
2. Put out a new SUPPLEMENT - something that I need to own Books 1-3 to be able to use - that explains how to MODIFY what's in those books to accommodate the Roman Empire/Mare Nostrum campaign.
3. Put out FURTHER setting supplements: One for the central Mare Nostrum, (essentially, Greece to Italy), one for the western Mare Nostrum (Italy to Gibraltar), and further ones - I can come up with at least seven more - for LAND-centric campaigns.
4. Enjoy the acclaim that you will STILL receive - as I said, you've done a fantastic job; now let's make it legal!

I'll comment a bit more in a separate post in the future - there are some things that I think you can and should change without 'breaking' Traveller.

Uh, Jeff, you need to go examine the copyright circular at copyright.gov.

First off, he didn't use Marc's text. So, even tho' he describes the same mechanical process, there is no copyright violation.

Second, he didn't use Marc's trademarks in any significant way; he could just delete the traveller trademark references.

Third, the mechanical process is not protected, nor is it protectable, by copyright nor trademark within the US. Marc, at the least, is in the US, and so Marc has to operate within the rights he has as a US national.

In short, the IP that exists hasn't been compromised in any significant way.

 

[Supplement Four]

No Jeff, thanks for the heads-up, I am a total neophyte when it comes to legalese. But I received a reply from Mr Miller, who said:

"I saw this item and I liked it a lot."

"It becomes a copyright violation only if I don't like it, so that doesn't seem to be a problem."

I guess that's cool

If you need confirmation...dude, that's FREAKIN' COOL!

You've got a great supplement there, and Marc likes it.

Cool beans in my book.

 

[dean]

I see the cover is in the style of Traveller, and I am guessing you used BeRKa 's (apologies if spelling or capitalization is wonky there) online tool for making Traveller covers.

I am pretty sure he allows for unrestricted non-commercial use, but I'd think it's be nice to include the credit to him and the zho site in the credits (if that's how you did do it). It's a great tool and credit should go where credit is due!

The Supplement looks FABULOUS! If you have a website I'd be glad to click a "donate" link and toss some denarii your way.