Merchant Prince

[ddamant]

I was thinking today of the following question, "Should tech level adjustments to the purchasing/selling price of cargo via LBB:7 Merchant Prince apply to all types of cargoes?"

For example: lets say the cargo is made up of agricultural products, raw materials or mined ore. These things are tech level independent (mostly anyway). Food is food, iron is iron, gold is gold. Could an argument be made for ignoring the tech level disparity between source and destination world? Or, should we assume that higher tech items are more sophisticated regardless of the item in question and apply the modifier across the board?

One thing that struck me as odd is that the speculative trade rules in LBB:2 do not take into account tech levels. Surely a TL6 computer is not work $6MCr on a TL12 world?

Thoughts?

 

[Timerover51]

I would agree that basic materials, such as food (wheat, rice, corn/maize), pig iron and steel sheeting and bar rod, gold, silver, copper, etc. should be Tech Level independent, and may cost more at the lower Tech Levels than the higher one, if a Tech Level differential is charged.

Also, it is worth remembering that up to the 1930s, most currencies were backed by either gold or silver specie, and international balance of trade payments were made in specie, generally gold. For the US, up to 1934, gold was valued at about $20 an ounce, and a seller at say Tech Level 5 and lower may demand payment in specie, rather than Imperial Credits. In Research Station Gamma, an ounce of gold is worth 200 Credits. That $20 M1903 Springfield might cost the purchasing Merchant crewman 200 Imperial Credits or an ounce of gold coin.

 

[ian54]

There is a kind of underlying TL influence, the world types used to alter prices may be based on the same values that influence world TL, but I've not checked this.

TL is really information, and trade is about scarcity of resource, it is easy to transport information to a world, a high tech object (relative to world TL) could just as easily be manufactured on the world itself rather than traded. The problem would be the materials and resources.

This doesn't cover lower tech items being sent to higher tech worlds, unless there is some form of "outsourcing" going on, i.e. making higher tech items using cheaper local labour or resources.

Regarding commodity money, Imperial Credits are the universal fungible currency, this would be converted on low tech worlds to a commodity like gold or silver, or perhaps a digital currency on high tech worlds, this would be very localised as it depends on the availability of the commodity or technology used. If fiat money was used then folk would probably revert to credits anyway.

 

[McPerth]

I was thinking today of the following question, "Should tech level adjustments to the purchasing/selling price of cargo via LBB:7 Merchant Prince apply to all types of cargoes?"

For example: lets say the cargo is made up of agricultural products, raw materials or mined ore. These things are tech level independent (mostly anyway). Food is food, iron is iron, gold is gold. Could an argument be made for ignoring the tech level disparity between source and destination world? Or, should we assume that higher tech items are more sophisticated regardless of the item in question and apply the modifier across the board?

One thing that struck me as odd is that the speculative trade rules in LBB:2 do not take into account tech levels. Surely a TL6 computer is not work $6MCr on a TL12 world?

Thoughts?

There were some variant rules for MT system (that's basically the same as CT:MP, so I tell here about it) in the supplement Knightfall that changed them.

Basically, as it's already said, raw materials' (food included) prices should not be subjected to TL changes, as an ore containing rock is equal in a TL0 world tan in a TL 15 one (though once refined and converted to processed ore is not).

OTOH, for some things, any TL change, be it up or down, will be counterproductive to sell your cargo, and so should lower the price. As an example, you can take some tons of recreative holocrystals to a TL 3 planet, but what would they find it good for, despite being 10+ TLs over their own?

Don McKinney Trade and Commerce variant (also thought for MT, but quite applicable to CT) also included most those modifications. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it can be found now that Don's page is out...

 

[kilemall]

I was thinking today of the following question, "Should tech level adjustments to the purchasing/selling price of cargo via LBB:7 Merchant Prince apply to all types of cargoes?"

For example: lets say the cargo is made up of agricultural products, raw materials or mined ore. These things are tech level independent (mostly anyway). Food is food, iron is iron, gold is gold. Could an argument be made for ignoring the tech level disparity between source and destination world? Or, should we assume that higher tech items are more sophisticated regardless of the item in question and apply the modifier across the board?

One thing that struck me as odd is that the speculative trade rules in LBB:2 do not take into account tech levels. Surely a TL6 computer is not work $6MCr on a TL12 world?

Thoughts?

While I agree that raw materials generally should be TL neutral, I'll play devil's advocate and argue otherwise.

Perhaps the higher tech grain or fruits are genetically engineered to be more nutritious, keep longer and/or have better/exotic taste.

Perhaps the raw mineral is processed to a higher degree of purity giving it higher value, or is alloyed in combinations impossible to do at lower tech levels.

The 6 MCr computer could be worth it at TL12, if it was an analog Model/1 which, being mechanical, cannot take radiation damage like a fiber optic version. Swapping programs might be a time consuming chore though.

As for technology modifiers, I guess I would keep in mind that LBB7 and LBB2 are very different systems.

LBB7 is immensely bland to me, the oatmeal of the space trader systems with no sugar or spices to help, I consider it the 'dear Lord don't let players make speculative millions' system. It's the sort of thing I would only consider if players insisted on being trader megacorps and there was a race to get to the lowest bulk price for later retail/value added profit.

I suppose the Striker POV is what I would tend to do TL mods at- having the only FGMPs on planet do you no good if they cost you past the point of capability elsewhere and break down because you are having to import every part.

So what would be desirable for trade in most instances are rugged simplified tech that requires little maintenance, user sophistication or instruction to use.

Cellphones, guns, Toyota HiLuxes come to mind.

A crystaliron axe or plow that never needs sharpening and can cut/dig like nothing on planet would suit the TL4 customer more then a TL12 robotic harvester.

A TL8 farmer would want a fusion powered tractor, could still use the axe but the plow needs to be in a mechanized form factor, not for animal power.

A TL10 farmer might make a go of the robotic harvester, if his product is high end enough to pay for it.

A TL15 farmer couldn't afford the breakdown rate and inefficiency of the TL12 robotic harvester, besides his crop is designed to harvest itself.

So really, if one were to apply TL mods there should be a source TL and then an intended market TL.

Trying to sell to a TL that can't really use or get value out of the product should be a negative.

The source TL is always a desirable plus as it will be more reliable/capable but may also price themselves out of all but higher end customers on lower tech planets with bad exchange rates.

As for LBB2 speculation, that is in the realm of the odd lots, the leftovers the Big Factor/Traders overlooked or cannot be bothered with. Salesmanship and finding niche markets are the keys there. So I would hesitate before getting into too much TL mods/rules there.

 

[Timerover51]

Regarding commodity money, Imperial Credits are the universal fungible currency, this would be converted on low tech worlds to a commodity like gold or silver, or perhaps a digital currency on high tech worlds, this would be very localised as it depends on the availability of the commodity or technology used. If fiat money was used then folk would probably revert to credits anyway.

Not every planet, even in the Spinward Marches is in the Imperium. Why would a Sword Worlder or a Darrian or a Solomani take Imperial Credits as payment? Any of them are likely to demand payment in local currency, which means converting Imperial Credits into local currency, possibly as a very bad exchange rate.

 

[Condottiere]

Free market and Yelp will let characters know where to get the best bang for their buck, including who accepts Credit Impériale, or CrImp, for payment of goods and services, or who has the best exchange rates.

 

[McPerth]

From Don McKinney Trade and Commerce variant (for MT, but usable for MP, as I explained):

5 Tech Level Effects
If the goods being sold are:

• A natural resource, ignore the tech level effects.
• A processed resource, use the tech level effects as given.
• Manufactured hardware, always use tech level difference as a minus (–).
• Manufactured non-hardware, use the tech level effects as given.
• Information, use the tech level effects as given.
• Novelty, always use the tech level difference as a plus (+).

See that there may be other factors to be ruled by the referee on a csae-by-case basis (after all, that's why he's there).

To keep with an example similar to my former one, what would the same TL3 planet do with several tons of radioactive processed ore (aside of being radiation poisoned by it), regardless of how much are priced according the rules?

 

[atpollard]

To keep with an example similar to my former one, what would the same TL3 planet do with several tons of radioactive processed ore (aside of being radiation poisoned by it), regardless of how much are priced according the rules?

I would build dirty bombs to drive the filthy imperials and their exploitive Starport from my world by rendering their extrality zone unusable and contaminating their food and water before it was delivered to those merchants of poverty as rations for their fat bellies.

See, there is always a market. :rofl:

[PS. I actually like Don's list. It makes sense and adds color.]

 

[Timerover51]

From Don McKinney Trade and Commerce variant (for MT, but usable for MP, as I explained):

From the late Don Mckinney
Tech Level Effects
If the goods being sold are:
A natural resource, ignore the tech level effects.
A processed resource, use the tech level effects as given.
Manufactured hardware, always use tech level difference as a minus (–).
Manufactured non-hardware, use the tech level effects as given.
Information, use the tech level effects as given.
Novelty, always use the tech level difference as a plus (+).

See that there may be other factors to be ruled by the referee on a csae-by-case basis (after all, that's why he's there).

To keep with an example similar to my former one, what would the same TL3 planet do with several tons of radioactive processed ore (aside of being radiation poisoned by it), regardless of how much are priced according the rules?

I would take processed radioactive ore as processed Uranium ore, commonly called yellowcake. While slightly radioactive, it is not something that can be made into "dirty bombs" to any significant degree. It also is quite heavy.

Depending on where you put Tech Level 3 and how high a hydrographic percentage the planet has, you could try to sell it to them for anti-fouling paint for nautical vessels. Thorium-based paints were once used for that purpose. That is going to bring you a lot less credits than a Tech Level 6 or higher planet would pay.

I would build dirty bombs to drive the filthy imperials and their exploitive Starport from my world by rendering their extrality zone unusable and contaminating their food and water before it was delivered to those merchants of poverty as rations for their fat bellies.

See, there is always a market. :rofl:

[PS. I actually like Don's list. It makes sense and adds color.]

You can also look at it the other way, a Tech Level 7 to 8 planet has an oversupply of 3.5 inch floppy discs that they would like to sell. What is the likelihood of selling them to a Tech Level 9 or higher planet, or a Tech Level 5 or lower planet? I would rate Tech Level 6 as a toss-up, depending on how the referee views computers.

I like Don's list as well, as it does provide some needed guidance.