Mike Pondsmith, Traveller Fan

[kilemall]

Read this article about Pondsmith, the Cyberpunk/Mekton/steampunk guy, and apparently he really dug Traveller.

http://blog.obsidianportal.com/interview-with-a-game-designer-mike-pondsmith/

The interesting part to me is the Pondsmith version of Traveller, called Imperial Star for his own private use.

Anyone ever see or look over those rules?

Also, I don't get the can't kill a Traveller character critique. Generally speaking, with Cloth armor in CT you might not get a first shot kill, but the third or fourth bullet would usually do the job. Laser Rifles had a shot at oneshot death.

And of course Mercenary added all manner of character insta-death.

But a regular ol AutoRifle will do the job.

 

[coliver988]

Yeah, I had to actively fudge some rolls to not kill the PCs in my last (and far too long ago) game. They were of course overmatched but coming from the D&D world did not realize how lethal Traveller really is.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Play Striker if you want to wargame with Traveller.

 

[kilemall]

Play Striker if you want to wargame with Traveller.

Sounds like Striker wasn't out then, but even so, regular ol CT can get ya. You can pull the trigger more then once.

I altered my version of Striker to be even more lethal for the so-called low end weapons, knives and pistols, without reducing armor effects, by inserting a hit location variable to damage.

Pondsmith went on to create that combat system of his that involves the lethal bleedout and resultant medical drama of the combat ambulance aerodyne.

The Traveller lineage of his games is clear especially with the skill paradigm rather then leveling.

 

[Supplement Four]

Also, I don't get the can't kill a Traveller character critique.

Yeah, killing off characters in CT chargen is a tool geared toward players. The rules in Book 1 are to roll stats straight--just one 2D toss for each attribute, in order.

Then, you get one chance to join the career of your choice. Failing that, you have to submit to the Draft where your character will be enlisted into one of the six Book 1 careers randomly.

Once in a career, there is no switching careers, by the rules.

So, if a player ends up with a character that he really doesn't like for some reason, he can attempt to kill off the character and start a new one from scratch.

Of course, the dice may not cooperate. Maybe the character makes the Survival Throws until he can no longer re-enlist (I think that starts after 6 terms--have to look that up).

 

[mike wightman]

Term seven, and even then if you roll box cars for reenlistment you have to serve another term.

Unless a ref allows mary-sue character generation you get to roll 2d for each stat, so you have on average 777. Add them up - 21.
Any weapon that does 4d damage has the potential to kill an average character in one shot.
Automatic weapons fired on full auto can hit you twice - so 6d or 8d from some weapons.
Use LBB4 and you get the gauss rifle that grants a potential of three hits - 12d damage, not to mention the panic fire rule that grants single shot weapons like pistols the potential for three hits for 9d damage.

 

[kilemall]

Yeah, killing off characters in CT chargen is a tool geared toward players. The rules in Book 1 are to roll stats straight--just one 2D toss for each attribute, in order.

Then, you get one chance to join the career of your choice. Failing that, you have to submit to the Draft where your character will be enlisted into one of the six Book 1 careers randomly.

Once in a career, there is no switching careers, by the rules.

So, if a player ends up with a character that he really doesn't like for some reason, he can attempt to kill off the character and start a new one from scratch.

Of course, the dice may not cooperate. Maybe the character makes the Survival Throws until he can no longer re-enlist (I think that starts after 6 terms--have to look that up).

Ummm. I am a 1970s Traveller guy and know all this, and the critique Pondsmith laid on was not chargen kill but combat kill.

 

[Supplement Four]

Ummm. I am a 1970s Traveller guy and know all this, and the critique Pondsmith laid on was not chargen kill but combat kill.

Ah. I was responding to the post, not the article.:coffeegulp:

 

[creativehum]

Unless a ref allows mary-sue character generation you get to roll 2d for each stat, so you have on average 777. Add them up - 21.
Any weapon that does 4d damage has the potential to kill an average character in one shot.
Automatic weapons fired on full auto can hit you twice - so 6d or 8d from some weapons.

Additionally, even if you don't die you have very good odds of being knocked unconscious (two characteristics driven to zero). So, not dead, but taken out of the fight.

Such wounds require,medical attention to recover stats, and remain at halfway between the lower and full level until medical treatment at at medical facility or a character with Med-3. Which means if you get into another fight before the treatment you are much closer to death with a single shot.

I'm not quite seeing Pondsmith's problem here.

However, if you look at his Cyberpunk work, he really wants guns to be terrifying and terminal in most cases!

 

[mike wightman]

Just checked the 77 edition in case the auto fire extra attack is missing - it is there in the original rules.
So weapons that can potentially kill an average character:
broadsword 4d
shotgun 4d
autorifle on full auto 3d and 3d
smg on full auto 3d-3 and 3d-3
laser carbine 4d
laser rifle 5d

Back in the day I dabbled with various add-ons:
bleeding
hit locations
to hit die roll effect adding to damage
aiming to increase damage (which in itself used variations of the above rules)
critical hits.

Of late I just keep it simple and narrate the effects based on damage rolled.

 

[creativehum]

Thinking about Pondsmith's phrasing, I'm wondering if he thought damage dice from on attack had to be applied against on characteristic, one time after another? So you would need at least three hits to kill someone?

 

[mike wightman]

It's a possibility

After all, people have been misreading, misunderstanding, misremembering and just plain inventing what the rules actually say for the past forty years...

I include myself in that list from time to time but only very rarely

 

[rhialto]

Additionally, even if you don't die you have very good odds of being knocked unconscious (two characteristics driven to zero).

In CT it takes only one characteristic at 0 to be knocked unconscious: while not "deadly", it is "unforgiving".

 

[creativehum]

In CT it takes only one characteristic at 0 to be knocked unconscious: while not "deadly", it is "unforgiving".

Whoops! You're right. Sorry about that. Don't know why I did that.

I consider this a feature, by the way, not bug. It prevents PCs from fight to the death but keeps combat risky. (No one wants to be unconscious!)

 

[Supplement Four]

(No one wants to be unconscious!)

Not when the Zhodani are walking through after battle shoving bayonets through the skulls of those still breathing.
:coffeegulp:

 

[rhialto]

Whoops! You're right. Sorry about that. Don't know why I did that.

I consider this a feature, by the way, not bug. It prevents PCs from fight to the death but keeps combat risky. (No one wants to be unconscious!)

I was so used to two at 0 from MgT that I thought I was mistaken. I also consider it a feature: fights are over much quicker

 

[creativehum]

I also consider it a feature: fights are over much quicker

It also encourages all sorts of strategic and tactical thinking:
Is this fight we might be about to have really worth it?
Is there a better time and place?
Do we have an exit plan?
How will we be getting wounded team members out?
Unlike many RPGs where charging into fights because "Now it's time foe a fight" I think CT asks Players to really think through as best they can what they are getting into and how they'll be dealing with it if things go south.

 

[mike wightman]

If you can achieve surprise the fight can be over in the same round it starts. Strict interpretation of the surprise rules allow for a character to walk up to another character in a bar and hit/stab them.

If you have military training, leader and tactics skills you gain surprise over someone lacking all three almost automatically - exact situation and environment may change things.


My advice to Travellers - always be proactive...

 

[rhialto]

Yes, I usually warn my group when we resume CT after playing something else (typically D&D) that they need to think like characters in the RW, not fictional superheroes who have some non-zero level of plot immunity.

 

[Supplement Four]

RE: One Attribute at Zero vs. Two Attributes at Zero



I've got a House Rule that I sometimes use that addresses the unconscious thing in CT. It's linked in my sig, but I'll post the Stun Rule here.



STUN RULE

Introduction: What's the most likely outcome when a character is hit in CT combat? The answer is that the victim is knocked unconscious for 10 minutes, and after that time the character revives with wounded stats placed at half value.

Think about it. The average Traveller character has physicals of 777. The average damage done by a weapon in the Traveller Book is 3D.

The average on a 3D throw is 10. That damage applied to a character with average physicals results in one characteristic at zero and a second reduced by 3 points after the First Blood rule is applied.

Thus, an average character, the first time he takes damage, is generally rendered unconscious with a Minor Wound--which means, the character finds consciousness again in 10 minutes, is revived, and has all of his wounded stats raised to half way between their damaged levels and the character's maximum.

A character with physicals 777, reduced to 047 in the described manner, will have stats 467 after he regains consciousness.

=================================================
Classic Traveller Stun Rule


When one stat is reduced to 0, the damaged character may make a 1D END check. If successful, the character is stunned for 1 round, able to function normally after that penalty. Damaged attributes are raised to their half-way points as if the character has just regained consciousness. If the check fails, then the character falls unconscious for 3D minutes (average of 10 minutes).

STUN CHECK = 1D for END or less

Alternatively, the check can be made using 2D. This option is for Ref's who want to allow the stun option occasionally but prefer a greater chance for the official unconscious game rules to come into play.

-------------------------------------------------
Example

Andy James 78A469

Andy is wounded in combat. His physical stats are reduced to 546 before he takes additional damage from a second enemy, making his stats 305.

Andy makes a 1D END check, rolling 1D for 5 or less. If Andy fails by rolling a 6 on this check, he has been knocked unconscious for 3D minutes.

But, if Andy's Stun check sees a 1-5 result, he will loose his next turn--incapacitated for that one 15 second period--but be able to act normally thereafter with his physical stats improved to 448.