Modern Day Body Pistol

[Vargas]

This was posted over on https://plus.google.com/communities/103312193461568568045 by Winchell Chung and focuses on a new style pistol made by Taurus:

http://www.gunsandammo.com/first-look/taurus-curve-380-pistol/

 

[Spinward Scout]

Will James Bond replace his Walther PPK body pistol?

It looks front heavy. I'd bet it would shoot low if you didn't practice with it. I like that it has a footprint similar to current cell phones. Very 'concealed carry'.

The omission of an external safety

So... where's the safety? Or is Barney Fife going to shoot his foot off?

 

[sabredog]

It's only plastic on the outside - the inner parts are all metal. Like the Berreta Nano, this pistol has what amounts to a polymer shell that a skeletonized metal pistol drops into. It makes the gun zoomy looking, but the real point is to make it ergonomically comfortable and easy to conceal without lots of things to catch on. It's also only .380...but then so is a body pistol.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=901&category=Pistol&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I prefer less is more with a CCW and go with just a plain old Glock 26 or 9mm Walther PPS. In fact, my Walther is gaining ground for concealed carry since it is so thin.

For an actual real-life body pistol it would need to have almost no metals, not even the barrel. Maybe a ceramic barrel would do? Caseless ammo? The Curve and Nano are getting there but still no cigar.

 

[Timerover51]

For an actual real-life body pistol it would need to have almost no metals, not even the barrel. Maybe a ceramic barrel would do? Caseless ammo? The Curve and Nano are getting there but still no cigar.

A real-life body pistol would have almost no metals? What are the bullets made out of? As for caseless, the Colt percussion revolver was caseless, using black powder and percussion caps.

 

[aramis]

A real-life body pistol would have almost no metals? What are the bullets made out of?

Plastic bullets seated in polymerized propellant.

 

[sabredog]

A real-life body pistol would have almost no metals? What are the bullets made out of? As for caseless, the Colt percussion revolver was caseless, using black powder and percussion caps.

Lead will not set off a metal detector. And no, the Colt did not use caseless ammunition as defined by the modern usage of the term. It used cap and ball - and since the entire weapon was steel the point is moot as to it's undetectability as a body pistol.

 

[sabredog]

Plastic bullets seated in polymerized propellant.

Or even frangible ceramic embedded with neuro or tetrodotoxin, or maybe fine memory wire that expands and rips through the target's interior. A .380 round is a belly gun sort of thing in any case and would be used at close range, so the need to retain a lot of energy across a distance wouldn't be needed. Since shot placement (barring the use of toxins) is absolutely paramount with such a small cartridge nearly anything would work.

 

[aramis]

There are plastics and ceramics approaching SG 6... almost as dense as steel (typically around SG7). Plenty of density to make a bullet from. Add the correct softer plastic shell to allow the bite of the lands.

 

[sabredog]

Really, you don't even need lands and grooves - use octagonal rifling and a hard round would be just fine. Maybe even just smoothbore would do for the ranges we are talking about in a body pistol, but I'd still go with octagonal rifling for anything beyond 5-10m. Especially since there isn't any range attenuation in CT as far as actual damage to the target, so it would be worth the slightly lower chance to hit to get the full damage potential.

For other systems it might be better to keeping the rifling and reduce attenuation for penetration since losing even a point in something like Striker/AHL/MT is a lot with one of these guns.

 

[Ulsyus]

So is this still a TL8-ish type of weapon or is it creeping into early TL9 design and construction?

 

[aramis]

So is this still a TL8-ish type of weapon or is it creeping into early TL9 design and construction?

More like late TL7... Ceramic and plastic bullets are doable at TL6. The ceramic & plastic guns are TL7.

 

[sabredog]

This particular gun - the real one in the OP - is just a Taurus .380 pocket pistol inside a polymer sleeve with the light/laser molded in it. Its nothing new (other than the shape), just another entry in the burgeoning market for this type of thing.

The game body pistol is TL-7, but at the time Traveller came out there wasn't any polymer pistol on the market, let alone one composed of entirely non-metallic parts designed to evade detection. Unless the KGB or CIA had something like that. And the game weapon is obviously made for covert work so maybe the spook agencies now have something like it.

I remember the Glock really freaked people out because they thought it was going to cause the end of civilization as an undetectable weapon of mayhem. I still encounter people who think like that even if they own guns of their own. Or they think a weapon made of the same sort of materials and F-16 or ICBM nose cone is made of will fly apart under the strain of firing ammunition. A couple of printable guns are out now, they work fine but their lifespan is short unless they have metal in some places to help support the actions. A two shot polypistol printed out with sealed ammo like my polymer One-Shot IMTU is certainly possible today. Seal in the ammo so you can make it caseless, good for two effective shots, and you have a body pistol-ish gun.

http://freelancetraveller.com/features/consgoods/guns/oneshot.html

 

[aramis]

This particular gun - the real one in the OP - is just a Taurus .380 pocket pistol inside a polymer sleeve with the light/laser molded in it. Its nothing new (other than the shape), just another entry in the burgeoning market for this type of thing.

The game body pistol is TL-7, but at the time Traveller came out there wasn't any polymer pistol on the market, let alone one composed of entirely non-metallic parts designed to evade detection. Unless the KGB or CIA had something like that. And the game weapon is obviously made for covert work so maybe the spook agencies now have something like it.

They did have, at least by the 70's, hard-to-x-ray take-apart body pistols. One was entirely plastic except the firing pin. They probably had them even in the 60's. They weren't really needed until airline international baggage screening became common.

 

[Ulsyus]

It was interesting to see the picture of the weapon tucked into a pair of jeans. I'm talking about the firearm here. The profile, looking more like a phone or mini-pad or such would be more likely to have someone not selected for searches or such by faceless minions of the state who were looking for people who're armed. Leaving aside the x-ray issue, that element of concealability could be pretty useful in some situations.

 

[sabredog]

Its not just concealability as the issue unless you are only talking about the real life gun. So long as we have things like metal detectors and TSA goons "keeping us safe" even a completely plastic pocket pistol won't cut it.

I carry either a G26 or Walther PPS in either a outside the waist holster, or and underarm pocket in a t-shirt designed for that sort of thing. Or the Walther in the pocket of my parka. Most of the time people never notice it even though I can because nobody pays attention. I've carried one of my larger Glocks the same way and with the same results even though it looks like I've got a brick hanging under my shirt. So concealing the thing isn't enough to fit the definition.

Which is why the "non-metallic undetectably by electronic means" rule is the true definition of a body pistol. It could look like anything but it has to be undetectable with scanners and the like that are looking for a gun. Not just people.

 

[Enoki]

Here's a "real deal" body pistol. All plastic.

Uses pre-loaded replaceable barrels.