Imperial Planetologist
SOC-12
Not really. If you use the Max Skills = Int + Edu rule, then the only difference is that ad-chargen characters tend to muster out a bit younger than their basic peers. Hardly gamebreaking.
Mongoose Mercenary
- Thread starter Border Reiver
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Britti_Lover
SOC-10
Anyway, I read the NEW Mongoose Traveller Book - Mercenary at a local gaming store:
SWEET! Lots and Lots of NEW toys...................
I give it an - A+ --- great book.
The chapters on armor and weapons alone are worth the price of purchase!
Mongoose hits another one otta the park!
"It is pretty much accepted in the industry that the average life of a particular edition of an RPG is 5-7 years. Some games go longer, others not as long but this seems to be about the average. At that point, sales of the game seem to level off or decline and a new edition is needed to maintain viability of the product line."
Gurps Traveller ran from 1998 - 2005. This is indeed 7 years and I hear that the last GT books published did not actually sell that well compared to the ones published in 1998.
I do really like Mongoose Traveller - it plays very well and is very well published also. I'm sure it will be in print for 7 years or more also.
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RandyT0001
SOC-13
Not really, IMO. The weapons are the most disappointing part, especially the artillery. Some body failed to do any research at all on the subject before writing that part. Today's TL7/8 MRL's can fire effectively farther than 20 kilometers but in MGT Mercenary a TL 12 MRL has a maximum range of 1.5 kilometers. By rule definition it can't hit anything at a greater range (p104-105) period.
I just read the book today.
I'm glad they kept the art up in this one, unlike "patrons".:nonono:
On the subject though, I think the MRL mentioned in the book is something of a lighter piece of equipment than what we think of conventionally. It's still a little under gunned compared to what you would think it would be though.
Modern .50cal sniper rifles have longer ranges than what they list for the MRL....
I'm glad they kept the art up in this one, unlike "patrons".:nonono:
On the subject though, I think the MRL mentioned in the book is something of a lighter piece of equipment than what we think of conventionally. It's still a little under gunned compared to what you would think it would be though.
Modern .50cal sniper rifles have longer ranges than what they list for the MRL....
The modern 60mm mortar (which is NOT a MRL, mind, but it's indirect fire) can go almost 3500 meters, and that's just with a single bang.
An RPG has a range of 300-500 meters. I guess that can be considered an "MRL" if, you know, you had M of them.
And the smallest "MRL" that I know was the Nebelwerfer, and it had a range up to 8000 meters. Of course, it was TL5-6.
I bought Mercenary, because most of the campaigns I run turn out to be military or spec-ops type campaigns. I had read some of the rather critical posts, but purchased it anyway, simply because it included Wet Navy and Air Force careers.
The expanded event tables for Army and Marine careers were welcome, but I would have appreciated additional specialties (Artilery, Commando, etc.) for active duty soldiers. I don't really need 6 careers with 3 specialties each for mercenaries. I will probably allow the Striker career as a mercenary career for those who wish to have part of their character's prior history be service as a mercenary.
The new skills are nice. I find it a bit unsavory to have torture as a specialty of Interrogation. I will not mess with specialties for Interrogation.
The rules regarding tickets could have been simpler, but they add a great deal of color to the process of negotiating a deal. I don't need randomn ticket generation, however, as ther are plenty of adventure ideas in all those issues of JTAS and Challenge that I own.
The new combat rules don't add all that much to the game. My games are too small for a mass combat system.
The equipment section is disappointing. I will simply treat MagRails as heavy gauss weapons. However, the MagRail Rifle seems like a lot of nothing: smaller magazine and higher recoil than a gauss rifle, same weight, and only two points of extra damage. I echo complaints about the short range of artillery compared to reality (or even Book 4 of the original Traveller) that have been made elsewhere. Also, the TL 15 AT gun (a plasma based weapon, similar to a fusion weapon) does less damage than the man-portable FGMP-15. We still don't have weights for ammunition (apparently the six magazines for your guass rifle don't count). It looks like I will be dusting off Striker for my rules for weapons capabilities.
The expanded event tables for Army and Marine careers were welcome, but I would have appreciated additional specialties (Artilery, Commando, etc.) for active duty soldiers. I don't really need 6 careers with 3 specialties each for mercenaries. I will probably allow the Striker career as a mercenary career for those who wish to have part of their character's prior history be service as a mercenary.
The new skills are nice. I find it a bit unsavory to have torture as a specialty of Interrogation. I will not mess with specialties for Interrogation.
The rules regarding tickets could have been simpler, but they add a great deal of color to the process of negotiating a deal. I don't need randomn ticket generation, however, as ther are plenty of adventure ideas in all those issues of JTAS and Challenge that I own.
The new combat rules don't add all that much to the game. My games are too small for a mass combat system.
The equipment section is disappointing. I will simply treat MagRails as heavy gauss weapons. However, the MagRail Rifle seems like a lot of nothing: smaller magazine and higher recoil than a gauss rifle, same weight, and only two points of extra damage. I echo complaints about the short range of artillery compared to reality (or even Book 4 of the original Traveller) that have been made elsewhere. Also, the TL 15 AT gun (a plasma based weapon, similar to a fusion weapon) does less damage than the man-portable FGMP-15. We still don't have weights for ammunition (apparently the six magazines for your guass rifle don't count). It looks like I will be dusting off Striker for my rules for weapons capabilities.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
They have a "Warmonger" career? I think I know what my next character is going to be... maybe a Zho or Aslan Warmonger might be nice for a switch.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
I got it. My reaction was one of relative indifference. Nothing was particularly awful, but nothing was particularly good either. So here goes...
1. "Laz Guns for Hire" is on the bottom of the cover. Unspeakably lame and way too WH40K like for Traveller IMHO.
2. In general, the writing is clumsy and badly in need of editing. Basic grammatical errors (especially subject-verb agreement) abound as do poorly constructed sentences. Here's a randomly chosen representative example --
"This chapter is a comprehensive look at how to create a mercenary ticket, what they actually do in the Traveller game setting for those who have them, and a list of a few standardized tickets for Referees to use when players are not feeling like negotiating."
Since editing is one of the things that (usually) distinguishes professional products, Mongoose dropped the ball with what appears to be non-existent editing. And since someone will probably ask, here's my idea of a better sentence (if I felt the need for a sentence like the one above)--
"This chapter describes mercenary tickets."
3. There is a plethora of new careers, but frankly, I'm not impressed. This is probably due to the fact that I think that the basic military careers are sufficient, rather than to any deficiency in the careers. The "Warmonger" career is an exception--it seems trite and juvenile to me.
4. Some new skills; I welcome most of them, although I think that they all should have been included in the core rules. I found the "doubletalk" Interrogation specialty amusing, although not terribly critical. Skills and new careers consume about 40% of the book (~40 pages).
5. I found the ticket descriptions somewhat interesting, though the author does seem to go on about it. The process for randomly handling tickets is very Traveller-esque, but of limited utility in an RPG. To be fair, the same could be said of many Traveller mechanics. A good effort, though seriously marred by too many obtuse sentences. Not sure that the subject merited 20 pages (nearly 20% of the book's content). Good editing could have cut the verbiage in half in my opinion.
6. The same is true of the recruiting rules (10% of the book). <Yawn>
7. New combat rules...finally, something I'm looking for.
a. Aiming for a Kill seems needless (and will be very unpopular with players if NPCs use the rule). The rule can increase damage by up to 6 points, so it isn't really that deadly.
b. Extreme range firing. <yawn>
c. Blind firing. A silly rule IMHO, and fiddly to boot.
d. Panic fire. This rule seems incomplete--it tells you how to conduct panic fire, but it implies that it is an uncontrollable reaction. Yet the rule clearly makes it a choice. The broken MGT autofire system should handle this without need for a special rule.
e. Parabolic fire. A needed mechanic, although the (nearly) automatic scatter may make such fire useless most of the time when using small explosives like grenades. It integrates the Effect, which I detest. A clumsy mechanic as well.
f. Suppression fire. Hey, they appear to have taken my advice, though the mechanic is clumsy and the sequence of play makes it unlikely that the result will actually model suppression very well. Still, it's better than nothing.
g. Ground force v Starships. Should've been in the core rules. Not much use to me since starships IMTU are not so overpowering as canon (or MGT) ships.
8. Large Scale Conflict Rules. <yawn> Not much use to me, but no less useful than the large scale combat rules in LBB4.
9. Mercenary Bases Rules. 12 pages on military bases? <yawn and stretch> I guess it's okay, but I have to admit that the stupifying boredom of this section kept me from getting through it.
10. New Equipment. Finally...the Main Reason that I bought Mercenary.
a. Armor. Adequate. But is TL1 plate armor really worth 3 points against modern firearms? I still think that the MGT armor and damage system is defective, so I won't go into whether I think the values are reasonable.
b. Guns. Underwhelmed. The SMG appears to be the "Autocarbine". One wonders why the more common term wasn't used. No specialized ammo for the ACR, so my criticism of the ACR remains. TL16+ weapons are wasted on me, so no comment and no use for them.
c. Other Equipment. Nothing earth-shattering, but most of it's okay.
11. Overall. If you play MGT, I suggest you take a look at it for the new skills and equipment--and new careers if you like many more options. If you're a non-MGT player, I wouldn't bother. There's little in this book for non-MGT players (the detail on Merc tickets might be of some use, I suppose). Most of the ground has been better-covered by earlier editions of Traveller. Mongoose should be reprimanded for not editing the book (or doing a very poor job of editing). As noted above, good editing distinguishes professional publishers from amateurs and its absence is inexcusable in a professional product.
EDIT--I'd also add that I am very disappointed that there was no update of the LBB4 mini-essays describing military life at various future tech levels. What there was was almost incomprehensible due to bad writing. I may update them myself now. I'd add that this is just as well. Those LBB4 essays were the product of a keenly insightful mind, well informed on current and historical military affairs. Such qualities appear to be absent from MGT (and, I must admit, most RPGs these days). Also, some of the weaponry seemed more like WH40K tech than Traveller. The ridiculous "MagRail" pistol and carbine that hurl 2" discs at "astonishing velocities" comes to mind. The MagRail rifle, with its 6" diameter discs is worse. The lurid descriptions are jarring, especially since they don't really match the ratings--the MagRifle can "tear humanoids apart" with 4d6+2 damage... The less said about "stagger lasers (or should it be lazers), plasma pistols, plasma grenades and "MagRail miniguns", the better.
1. "Laz Guns for Hire" is on the bottom of the cover. Unspeakably lame and way too WH40K like for Traveller IMHO.
2. In general, the writing is clumsy and badly in need of editing. Basic grammatical errors (especially subject-verb agreement) abound as do poorly constructed sentences. Here's a randomly chosen representative example --
"This chapter is a comprehensive look at how to create a mercenary ticket, what they actually do in the Traveller game setting for those who have them, and a list of a few standardized tickets for Referees to use when players are not feeling like negotiating."
Since editing is one of the things that (usually) distinguishes professional products, Mongoose dropped the ball with what appears to be non-existent editing. And since someone will probably ask, here's my idea of a better sentence (if I felt the need for a sentence like the one above)--
"This chapter describes mercenary tickets."
3. There is a plethora of new careers, but frankly, I'm not impressed. This is probably due to the fact that I think that the basic military careers are sufficient, rather than to any deficiency in the careers. The "Warmonger" career is an exception--it seems trite and juvenile to me.
4. Some new skills; I welcome most of them, although I think that they all should have been included in the core rules. I found the "doubletalk" Interrogation specialty amusing, although not terribly critical. Skills and new careers consume about 40% of the book (~40 pages).
5. I found the ticket descriptions somewhat interesting, though the author does seem to go on about it. The process for randomly handling tickets is very Traveller-esque, but of limited utility in an RPG. To be fair, the same could be said of many Traveller mechanics. A good effort, though seriously marred by too many obtuse sentences. Not sure that the subject merited 20 pages (nearly 20% of the book's content). Good editing could have cut the verbiage in half in my opinion.
6. The same is true of the recruiting rules (10% of the book). <Yawn>
7. New combat rules...finally, something I'm looking for.
a. Aiming for a Kill seems needless (and will be very unpopular with players if NPCs use the rule). The rule can increase damage by up to 6 points, so it isn't really that deadly.
b. Extreme range firing. <yawn>
c. Blind firing. A silly rule IMHO, and fiddly to boot.
d. Panic fire. This rule seems incomplete--it tells you how to conduct panic fire, but it implies that it is an uncontrollable reaction. Yet the rule clearly makes it a choice. The broken MGT autofire system should handle this without need for a special rule.
e. Parabolic fire. A needed mechanic, although the (nearly) automatic scatter may make such fire useless most of the time when using small explosives like grenades. It integrates the Effect, which I detest. A clumsy mechanic as well.
f. Suppression fire. Hey, they appear to have taken my advice, though the mechanic is clumsy and the sequence of play makes it unlikely that the result will actually model suppression very well. Still, it's better than nothing.
g. Ground force v Starships. Should've been in the core rules. Not much use to me since starships IMTU are not so overpowering as canon (or MGT) ships.
8. Large Scale Conflict Rules. <yawn> Not much use to me, but no less useful than the large scale combat rules in LBB4.
9. Mercenary Bases Rules. 12 pages on military bases? <yawn and stretch> I guess it's okay, but I have to admit that the stupifying boredom of this section kept me from getting through it.
10. New Equipment. Finally...the Main Reason that I bought Mercenary.
a. Armor. Adequate. But is TL1 plate armor really worth 3 points against modern firearms? I still think that the MGT armor and damage system is defective, so I won't go into whether I think the values are reasonable.
b. Guns. Underwhelmed. The SMG appears to be the "Autocarbine". One wonders why the more common term wasn't used. No specialized ammo for the ACR, so my criticism of the ACR remains. TL16+ weapons are wasted on me, so no comment and no use for them.
c. Other Equipment. Nothing earth-shattering, but most of it's okay.
11. Overall. If you play MGT, I suggest you take a look at it for the new skills and equipment--and new careers if you like many more options. If you're a non-MGT player, I wouldn't bother. There's little in this book for non-MGT players (the detail on Merc tickets might be of some use, I suppose). Most of the ground has been better-covered by earlier editions of Traveller. Mongoose should be reprimanded for not editing the book (or doing a very poor job of editing). As noted above, good editing distinguishes professional publishers from amateurs and its absence is inexcusable in a professional product.
EDIT--I'd also add that I am very disappointed that there was no update of the LBB4 mini-essays describing military life at various future tech levels. What there was was almost incomprehensible due to bad writing. I may update them myself now. I'd add that this is just as well. Those LBB4 essays were the product of a keenly insightful mind, well informed on current and historical military affairs. Such qualities appear to be absent from MGT (and, I must admit, most RPGs these days). Also, some of the weaponry seemed more like WH40K tech than Traveller. The ridiculous "MagRail" pistol and carbine that hurl 2" discs at "astonishing velocities" comes to mind. The MagRail rifle, with its 6" diameter discs is worse. The lurid descriptions are jarring, especially since they don't really match the ratings--the MagRifle can "tear humanoids apart" with 4d6+2 damage... The less said about "stagger lasers (or should it be lazers), plasma pistols, plasma grenades and "MagRail miniguns", the better.
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Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I've wondered about this myself. I get the "feeling" that some of the new Traveller items we've seen in recent years (and maybe not so recent) have been written by Traveller imitators rather than Traveller creators.
What I mean by that is simple. The GDW staff had a spectacular grasp on "military stuff". They new weapons and systems and procedures, and that would translate to the game. A new GDW Traveller book meant new stuff.
Flash forward to today, and what we basically see (most of the time but not all of the time) is just reguritation (and usually re-statting for a new rule system) of the stuff GDW created.
(And, when I say "GDW" in this particular context, I'm actually speaking of several publishers of Traveller when it was new, including DGP.)
Stuff would come out and it would "make sense" within the universe.
When's the last time that happened?
I'm not talking about going with nano-tech or warp drive. I'm talking about technology that fits within the established parameters that is Traveller.
Note when Book 4 Mercenary for CT came out. They added plasma weapons! But, look at them! They're big, bulky, powerful...and "fit" right into the universe. You don't have matter transporters (unless we're talking about Ancient technology) added. Things like the gauss rifle was added--a thing that "makes sense" within the universe.
We don't seem to get that kind of "creation" anymore.
It doesn't seem like MGT's mercenary book adds anything new to the game, either (nothing that would "fit" in the established Traveller universe).
I think that's too bad.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Be getting it any day now... then I'll do my review.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
I think that this is one of my core complaints about Mercenary and MGT as a whole. Traveller is a game with 30 years of history. If you're gonna do a Traveller game, then I think it's advisable to honor the source material. And I'm sorry, but shuriken catapults are as out of place in Traveller as lightsabers would be. Indeed, one of the defining characteristics of Traveller has always been logical, plausible weaponry. Of course, projecting logical, plausible weaponry requires the designer to educate himself on military tech--something that the authors of MGT and Mercenary have clearly declined to do. So the result is a disappointing, mediocre rules set that is Traveller in name only.
And if MGT is not really gonna be Traveller, then frankly, what good is it? There are many other sci-fi RPGs with better mechanics and settings than MGT. Various earlier versions of Traveller come to mind, but other non-Traveller systems are out there as well. At the end of the day, why should anyone who likes Traveller play a game that claims to be Traveller, but includes significant material that is simply out of place in the Traveller milleu?
And the more I re-read Mercenary, the more I think that Mongoose should be reprimanded for allowing such a poorly written product to go to press. It's just bad. Sorry, guys, but this one is an Edsel.
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tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
<shrug>
I think it's fair to expect the author of a TRAVELLER supplement to refrain from introducing cringe-inducing weapons like shuriken catapults--sorry, MagRail guns. And if this kinda crap is representative of the "ironmongery" we can expect from Mongoose, then I can't wait. The purchase price will be worth it to me for amusement value alone.
And there is NO excuse for the utter lack of editing. I actually wonder if Mongoose somehow accidentally published the author's first draft?
1. That's why I avoided mentioning the editing.
2. Publishing the wrong draft would not be a first for 'Traveller', IIRC.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
1. That's why I avoided mentioning the editing.
2. Publishing the wrong draft would not be a first for 'Traveller', IIRC.
Really? Do tell.
Maybe we're talking about different kinds of editing. Megatraveller was plagued with reams of eratta, but I don't recall the writing being especially bad. Mercenary's writing is generally awful, with clumsy sentences, subject-verb disagreement, etc. There's no way that an "editor" worthy of the title could have let Mercenary go out like that IMHO.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Some posters here on the board look at MGT Traveller using a very wrong idea. The idea that Mongoose has THEM as the target audience. Good news: They don't!
Mongoose is NOT trying to market MGT to the small group of "I play-tested CT back in 1975" players remaining and they DON'T care about Mr. "I play <Major Traveller Edition of Choise> with rules liftet from <Add n, n>>1 other revisions or systems>".
Their target audience are NEW players that are looking for a resonably tech-oriented SciFi game that is currently published in PRINT FORM, relatively easy to play and fun. Maybe, just maybe, they also target the "I played Traveller back in <Dinosauers walked the earth>, was fun" players that haven't looked at it in decades and/or some "GT is nice but some elements are wrong, could someone please update MT" players.
Try reading the books with that point of view and they are actually quite nice and well done. Not ClunkyTraveller from the days daddy was a teenager, not MonsterTraveller from the days Errata seemed to be almost as important as the game itself but definitly close enough to Travellers concepts and ideas to be a fun system to play. And Mercenary clearly is written along that lines, doing it's best to evade MilBabble while giving younger players that (thankfully) DON'T have any background in the military enough information to play with.
Mongoose is NOT trying to market MGT to the small group of "I play-tested CT back in 1975" players remaining and they DON'T care about Mr. "I play <Major Traveller Edition of Choise> with rules liftet from <Add n, n>>1 other revisions or systems>".
Their target audience are NEW players that are looking for a resonably tech-oriented SciFi game that is currently published in PRINT FORM, relatively easy to play and fun. Maybe, just maybe, they also target the "I played Traveller back in <Dinosauers walked the earth>, was fun" players that haven't looked at it in decades and/or some "GT is nice but some elements are wrong, could someone please update MT" players.
Try reading the books with that point of view and they are actually quite nice and well done. Not ClunkyTraveller from the days daddy was a teenager, not MonsterTraveller from the days Errata seemed to be almost as important as the game itself but definitly close enough to Travellers concepts and ideas to be a fun system to play. And Mercenary clearly is written along that lines, doing it's best to evade MilBabble while giving younger players that (thankfully) DON'T have any background in the military enough information to play with.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Good thing I haven't made this assumption. I've reviewed MGT and Mercenary on their own merits.
And if a game is named "Traveller" then I think that it's reasonable to expect it to be faithful to the thing that has been called "Traveller" for >30 years.
You can deny this if you wish, but you are the one with the weak argument here. Well, your argument would be weak if you actually made one, that is.
<snip of tiresome "you only hate MGT because it's post-1975" gibberish">
Here's a thought--respond to the arguments I made, rather than to the arguments you wish I'd made.
As noted, Mercenary is very poorly written. "Excruiciating" is not too strong a word for at least one sentence on every page. Things like basic grammar and sentence construction are sadly lacking. And this is inexcusable from a purportedly professional game publisher.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to call bullsh_t. Each page of Mercenary is riddled with clumsy, rambling and ungrammatical sentences. I am perplexed as to how you can characterize it as "clearly written". Do I really need to embarass you and the author by listing more examples?
Understand, I don't really blame the author for bad writing. Everyone needs an "editor" and the "publisher" is the one who usually provides this. Had Mercenary been properly edited, it would be about 1/3-1/2 shorter. Of course, I'd still point and lauch at the ridiculous weapons, etc. But at least the product would resemble a professional product.
Yeah, I guess that's why we need crap like shuriken catapults, er, MagRail guns, right? Or the lurid and absurd "Warmongerer" career.
Feh.
Have you actually read it?
By any rational standard, it's a poorly-written, badly edited product. Adding insult to injury, it makes mindless (and needless) changes to Traveller. We can disagree about the latter; the former is inexcusable.
For MGT players, it might be worth a look, if you like really bad writing, uninspiring equipment lists, cringe-inducing weapons and dubious careers. Oh, and lets not forget 20 pages of unending, stupifyingly dull verbiage about military bases.
Ye Gods, I've read tax law treatises that were more engaging.
For the rest of us, Mercenary'smain value is entertainment, in the same way as "Plan 9 From Outer Space".
Mongoose should be ashamed to foist this dreck on an unsuspecting public. If this is representative of Traveller supplements to come, MGT will die a mercifully quick death. In my opinion, of course.
Fair enough, but are they likely to be HERE in the first place?
If I were a new player looking for info on MGT, I would start with the Mongoose site.
On the other hand, the 'old farts' deserve to know what kind of book that they are getting from an 'old fart' perspective. For them, comparison with LBB4 seems inevidable.
As someone who has not purchased it yet (I havn't decided whether or not MGT is worth the investment for me), I would like to hear more positive comments. Not mindless gushing (which is as useless as mindless criticism), but real details about what they like, what works and why. I am still searching for the MGT 'killer application' (to borrow an old computer term) that will convince me 'I need that'.
As someone whose paper experience of Traveller stems solely from Mongoose, I thought Mercenary was great.
After a few days to digest the material, I think it was a great investment.
It's exactly what a supplement should be. Something to add detail but doesn't detract from the core book's value. In that sense, Mongoose hit the nail on the head.
My only gripe is the weapons ranges of the artillery pieces. Which although seems to be a glaring faux pas, is pretty minor.
After a few days to digest the material, I think it was a great investment.
It's exactly what a supplement should be. Something to add detail but doesn't detract from the core book's value. In that sense, Mongoose hit the nail on the head.
My only gripe is the weapons ranges of the artillery pieces. Which although seems to be a glaring faux pas, is pretty minor.
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