Most Efficient Ship by TL for Cargo to X Parsecs

[Grav_Moped]

I probably need to go back through and model the impact of flying gas-and-go instead of 1-week layovers on cost per parsec. If I'm assuming a cargo going to 2 or 3 parsecs is being shipped on the same vessel rather than crossloaded, there's no need to wait a week between jumps since the ship won't be taking on cargo at intermediate destinations.

"Annual" maintenance costs go up proportionately to frequency of jumps (that is, the inspection/repair is done every 25 Jumps rather than annually). Per-jump costs other than fuel are reduced proportionately (each jump accrues less loan-payment, salary, and life-support cost). Jump fuel burn is per jump. Rules as written, powerplant fuel burn is per week, but if you assume that the ship is idling or shut down in port it really ought to be considered as per sortie (trip to 100D, jump, trip from 100D at destination to destination world).

And then there's the matter of the cost of doing multiple jumps across gaps. If you have to do a 3-parsec run in a J1 ship and can't refuel, you'll need internal demountable tanks (or just have the ship built with triple the jump fuel and half again as much powerplant fuel). That'll be costly. This probably affects LBB5-limited universes* the hardest, since LBB2 allows higher Jns at lower TLs.

I don't think I'll worry about that this time around, as it starts to get tied into subsector "geography" beyond the scope of this exercise.



*That is, where LBB2 doesn't supersede LBB5's TL limits on Jump capability.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Pending updates/corrections. Probably incorrect in minor details while this header remains.
ALL OF MY TABLES UPTHREAD FROM HERE (PREVIOUS) HAVE MISTAKES I CAN'T CORRECT (edit window elapsed).
Spoilering the whole thing until I fix it. Basically, for each ship the payload is overstated by 4Td and the cost/jump per ton payload is a bit too low.

On to the J-3 ships:

Spoiler

                            Tons                     Cost/Jump per
TL     Tons     Drives     Payload      Cost/Jump     Ton Payload    Notes:
 9     200        C           40        J1: 241396       6035
                                        J2: 251396       6285
                                        J3: 268896       6722

10     400        F          497        J1: 352537       2014  
                                        J2: 372537       2129        
                                        J3: 400037       2286      

11     600        J          639        J1: 577944       2240        Finally, the standard
                                        J2: 607944       2356        hull can be used
                                        J3: 645444       2502        to advantage here! 

12     800        M         3439        J1: 803143       2171       
                                        J2: 843143       2279
                                        J3: 890643       2407

13-14 1000        Q         3439        J1: 985009       2035       
                                        J2:1035009       2138
                                        J3:1092509       2257

15    4000        Z         3439        J1:2507857       1096     
                                        J2:2707857       1184
                                        J3:2915357       1274 It's the Magic of Z!

Cost per ton to a distance of X parsecs by available TL
Includes the ship used to acccomplish the task, number of jumps, and the length of the Jumps.
NOTE: Table revised to reflect dominance of the TL-9 600Td J-1 ship.

TL Cr/T/1pc  Td, Jumps Cr/T/2Pc  Td, Jumps   Cr/T/3Pc  Td, Jumps
 9   649     600, 1J1    1298     600, 2J1     1947     600, 3J1
10   649     600, 1J1    1298     600, 2J1     1947     600, 3J1
11   649     600, 1J1    1274    1000, 1J2     1947     600, 3J1
12   649     600, 1J1    1274    1000, 1J2     1947     600, 3J1
13   649     600, 1J1    1274    1000, 1J2     1947     600, 3J1
14   649     600, 1J1    1274    1000, 1J2     1947     600, 3J1
15   649     600, 1J1     894    5000, 1J2     1274    5000, 1J3

Note: I'm assuming through-shipment for all cargo; that is, 3Pc on a Jump-2 ship is a J2 and a J1 with that ship, not J2 with a J2 ship then J1 with a J1 ship.
Observations:

J-3 is only cheaper than 3 x J1 (though not by *much* for the TL-10 and TL-13 ships) at TL-15. Still looking a lot like a per-parsec cargo rate works here; but low-TL, high Jn ships are going to suffer for it unless there's a significant premium for rapid delivery.

TL 9 with its 40T payload out of 200Td, is *three times* more costly than the TL-10 400Td and TL-13 1000Td ships per cargo ton at J3. And of course the TL-15 4KTd ship runs at 56% less per ton than that because Z Drives. Near-optimal J3 (TL-10, 400Td and TL-13, 1000Td) is close to, but still more expensive than 3xJ1 until TL-15 which as usual blows everything else away with its Z Drives.

In the midrange, the TL-11 600Td ship is saved from total irrelevance by being able to use a standard hull. It's still less cost-efficient than the TL-10 and TL-13 ships, but not as badly as it would have been.

Looks like one of the main drivers here is that the 600 and 800Td ships each add one engineer at their steps, at 4Td and Cr3000/jump. The only reason the TL-11 version is even remotely competitive is the standard hull.

I was surprised that even with one-week layovers at intermediate stops, it turns out cheaper to do three J-1s instead of 1J3 if you don't have a Z Drive. And again, that the 600Td J-1 ship stomps pretty much all over everything without a Jump Drive Z.

Next time: expanding this to J-4. I expect that 2J2 will be the least expensive option for 4-parsec shipments.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The 400 Dt standard hull is very usable at J-1 and J-2. See my example in post #5. It is cheaper than the 800 Dt example you made for TL-9 and J-1.

But does it come out cheaper per payload ton in operation? That's the factor I'm trying to optimize in this exercise.

At 400Td, J1,the standard hull isn't cost-effective. That's not surprising.
BUT at 600Td, J1, it is (Cr649/payload ton vs Cr666-731/payload ton). And that's with 50Td wasted space in the drive bay!
That surprised me. It beats the 800Td, J1 ship that's the largest possible J1 at TL-9 -- and as noted above, everything else regardless of TL for J1.

At 400Td, J2, TL-9 it's cost-effective (Cr1403/payload ton to 2Pc, vs Cr1603 to same). (The most-efficient J2, TL-9 ship was already 400Td.)
There is no cost-effectiveness advantage for the 600Td standard hull in this use case (would have been the TL-10, 600Td version).

At 600Td, J3, TL-11, it's cost effective (Cr2541/payload ton to 2Pc, vs Cr2629 to same).(The most-efficient J-3, TL-11 ship was already 600Td.)
At 400Td, J3, TL-10, it was not cost-effective.

Note that the 800Td and 1000Td standard hulls are no cheaper than their nonstandard equivalents, though they are quicker to build.

All tables and comments updated accordingly.

 

[Grav_Moped]

And now I'm wondering what the point of the Type M Subsidized Merchant is. At 400Td, it wastes too much of the standard 400Td hull to benefit from it. If built to 600Td, it's the most cost-efficient Jump-1 freighter possible at any TL even with the wasted 50Td in the drive bay.*

I get the Subsidized Liner now -- but if that's what the 600Td standard hull was for, why did they not make the drive room fit those drives instead of wasting 2 tons?


*They weren't planning for a fuel purifier to go in there (not available in LBB2) but I'd allow it.
The TL-9 400Td J2 ship has 9Td drive space wasted, which is exactly the size of the minimum TL-9 fuel purifier. Bingo!

The TL-10 600Td J-1 ship wastes 50Td, but only needs 8Td for its TL-10 fuel purifier. Oh well, it still stomps all over everything in the J-1 category until we bring in the rest of LBB5.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

And now I'm wondering what the point of the Type M Subsidized Merchant is. At 400Td, it wastes too much of the standard 400Td hull to benefit from it. If built to 600Td, it's the most cost-efficient Jump-1 freighter possible at any TL even with the wasted 50Td in the drive bay.*

If you are using LBB2 rules you will rarely fill the Subbie, and the 600 tonner will generally be rather empty. Thats why there is such a thing as the Free Trader, it's not very economical, but at least you can often fill it...

Maximum efficiency ships is only about massive cargoes on the main trade routes, between hi-pop worlds.


Note: The canonical Subbie is designed with LBB2'77, hence has bigger, more expensive drives than needed under LBB2'81. Not efficient...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'm not seeing the same results you are seeing:
Example LBB2 J-1 400 Dt vs 600 Dt:
400 Dt, cost Cr 693 per Dton cargo per jump:

MT-4611111-020000-10001-0       MCr 65,8         400 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=5
batteries   1     1   1                              TL=9
                         Cargo=258 Fuel=50 EP=4 Agility=0

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   258        73,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      400 Dt          4          400            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     20  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Engineering                                        25            
Jump Drive          B                  1    1      15        20  
Manoeuvre D         B                  1    1       3         8  
Power Plant         B                  1    1       7        16  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      50            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         2  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  5      20         2,5
                                                                 
Cargo                                             258            
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1         1,1
  Weapon            Missile            1    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              1    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               2    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 73,10            Sum:     258        73,1
Class Cost          MCr  8,04           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 65,79                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           5       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 65,79       kCr 13 158          kCr 274              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 131 580          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  25 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr  10 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   9 120          Cargo          Cr 204 000
Maintenance         Cr   2 632                                   
Berthing            Cr     400                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     179                        kCr     204
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 693

600 Dt, cost Cr 728 per Dton cargo per jump:

MT-6611111-020000-10001-0        MCr 117         600 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=5
batteries   1     1   1                              TL=9
                         Cargo=403 Fuel=70 EP=6 Agility=0

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   403       130,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      600 Dt          6          600            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     54  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Engineering                                        50            
Jump Drive          C                  1    1      20        30  
Manoeuvre D         C                  1    1       5        12  
Power Plant         C                  1    1      10        24  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      70            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         3  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  5      20         2,5
                                                                 
Cargo                                             403            
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1         1,1
  Weapon            Missile            1    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              1    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               2    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 130,10           Sum:     403       130,1
Class Cost          MCr  14,31          Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 117,09                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           5       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 117,09       kCr 23 418          kCr 488              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 234 180          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  35 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr  10 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   9 120          Cargo          Cr 320 000
Maintenance         Cr   4 684                                   
Berthing            Cr     600                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     294                        kCr     320
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 728

The 600 Dt standard hull isn't very cheap, there is no reason to suspect it will be very economical.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I get the 600 Dt custom hull to be more efficient than the 600 Dt standard hull, but still not quite as efficient as the 400 Dt standard hull.

600 Dt, custom hull, cost Cr 697 per Dton cargo per jump:

MT-6611111-020000-10001-0        MCr 128         600 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=5
batteries   1     1   1                              TL=9
                         Cargo=453 Fuel=70 EP=6 Agility=0

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   453       142,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             6          600            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     66  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  
                                                                 
Jump Drive          C                  1    1      20        30  
Manoeuvre D         C                  1    1       5        12  
Power Plant         C                  1    1      10        24  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      70            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         3  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  5      20         2,5
                                                                 
Cargo                                             453            
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1         1,1
  Weapon            Missile            1    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              1    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               2    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 142,10           Sum:     453       142,1
Class Cost          MCr  15,63          Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 127,89                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           5       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 127,89       kCr 25 578          kCr 533              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 255 780          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  35 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr  10 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   9 120          Cargo          Cr 360 000
Maintenance         Cr   5 116                                   
Berthing            Cr     600                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     316                        kCr     360
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 697

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Note that the single turret (& gunner) is a very heavy burden for small ship, skewing your results.

Example:
400 Dt, J-1, no turret, cost Cr 647 per Dton cargo per jump, vs Cr 693 with turret:

MT-4611111-000000-00000-0       MCr 63,0         400 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                           TL=12
                         Cargo=263 Fuel=50 EP=4 Agility=1

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   263        70  
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      400 Dt          4          400            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     20  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Engineering                                        25            
Jump Drive          B                  1    1      15        20  
Manoeuvre D         B                  1    1       3         8  
Power Plant         B                  1    1       7        16  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      50            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         2  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4      16         2  
                                                                 
Cargo                                             263            
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 70,00            Sum:     263        70  
Class Cost          MCr  7,70           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 63,00                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           4       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Trips/year
        MCr 63,00       kCr 12 600          kCr 263             25,0
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 126 000          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  25 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr   8 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   8 160          Cargo          Cr 208 000
Maintenance         Cr   2 520                                   
Berthing            Cr     400                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     170                        kCr     208
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 647

600 Dt, J-1, no turret, cost Cr 670 per Dton cargo per jump, vs Cr 697 with turret:

MT-6611111-000000-00000-0        MCr 125         600 Dton
bearing                                            Crew=4
batteries                                           TL=12
                         Cargo=458 Fuel=70 EP=6 Agility=1

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   458       139  
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             6          600            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     66  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  
                                                                 
Jump Drive          C                  1    1      20        30  
Manoeuvre D         C                  1    1       5        12  
Power Plant         C                  1    1      10        24  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      70            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         3  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  4      16         2  
                                                                 
Cargo                                             458            
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 139,00           Sum:     458       139  
Class Cost          MCr  15,29          Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 125,10                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           4       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Trips/year
       MCr 125,10       kCr 25 020          kCr 521             25,0
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 250 200          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  35 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr   8 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   8 160          Cargo          Cr 364 000
Maintenance         Cr   5 004                                   
Berthing            Cr     600                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     307                        kCr     364
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 670

 

[BRover]

I probably need to go back through and model the impact of flying gas-and-go instead of 1-week layovers on cost per parsec. If I'm assuming a cargo going to 2 or 3 parsecs is being shipped on the same vessel rather than crossloaded, there's no need to wait a week between jumps since the ship won't be taking on cargo at intermediate destinations.

"Annual" maintenance costs go up proportionately to frequency of jumps (that is, the inspection/repair is done every 25 Jumps rather than annually). Per-jump costs other than fuel are reduced proportionately (each jump accrues less loan-payment, salary, and life-support cost). Jump fuel burn is per jump. Rules as written, powerplant fuel burn is per week, but if you assume that the ship is idling or shut down in port it really ought to be considered as per sortie (trip to 100D, jump, trip from 100D at destination to destination world).

. . .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but where in LBB2 RAW does annual maintenance go by jumps made rather than straight time? I only recall greater chance of problems if so long past the due date, and nothing about tracking jumps.

 

[Proneutron]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but where in LBB2 RAW does annual maintenance go by jumps made rather than straight time?

The same place it says that a person during low passage doesn't gain weight. And where it says that if you shut down your PP for a week it doesn't "burn" fuel.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I'm not seeing the same results you are seeing:
Example LBB2 J-1 400 Dt vs 600 Dt:

Spoiler

400 Dt, cost Cr 693 per Dton cargo per jump:

MT-4611111-020000-10001-0       MCr 65,8         400 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=5
batteries   1     1   1                              TL=9
                         Cargo=258 Fuel=50 EP=4 Agility=0

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   258        73,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      400 Dt          4          400            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     20  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Engineering                                        25            
Jump Drive          B                  1    1      15        20  
Manoeuvre D         B                  1    1       3         8  
Power Plant         B                  1    1       7        16  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      50            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         2  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  5      20         2,5
                                                                 
Cargo                                             258            
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1         1,1
  Weapon            Missile            1    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              1    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               2    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 73,10            Sum:     258        73,1
Class Cost          MCr  8,04           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 65,79                                    
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           5       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
        MCr 65,79       kCr 13 158          kCr 274              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 131 580          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  25 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr  10 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   9 120          Cargo          Cr 204 000
Maintenance         Cr   2 632                                   
Berthing            Cr     400                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     179                        kCr     204
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 693

600 Dt, cost Cr 728 per Dton cargo per jump:

MT-6611111-020000-10001-0        MCr 117         600 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=5
batteries   1     1   1                              TL=9
                         Cargo=403 Fuel=70 EP=6 Agility=0

Single Occupancy    LBB2 design                   403       130,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined      600 Dt          6          600            
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                     54  
Scoops              Streamlined                                  

Engineering                                        50            
Jump Drive          C                  1    1      20        30  
Manoeuvre D         C                  1    1       5        12  
Power Plant         C                  1    1      10        24  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-1, 4 weeks            1      70            
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1      20         3  
Computer            m/1                1    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Staterooms                                  5      20         2,5
                                                                 
Cargo                                             403            
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1         1,1
  Weapon            Missile            1    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              1    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               2    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 130,10           Sum:     403       130,1
Class Cost          MCr  14,31          Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 117,09                                   
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     2
Passengers            Mid     0           5       Engineers     1
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service     1
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 117,09       kCr 23 418          kCr 488              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank                Cr 234 180          High           Cr       0
Fuel                Cr  35 000          Middle         Cr       0
Life Support        Cr  10 000          Low            Cr       0
Salaries            Cr   9 120          Cargo          Cr 320 000
Maintenance         Cr   4 684                                   
Berthing            Cr     600                                   
                                                                 
Summa              kCr     294                        kCr     320
                                                                 
  Cost per jump per Dton cargo     Cr 728

The 600 Dt standard hull isn't very cheap, there is no reason to suspect it will be very economical.

The first big difference is that I'm using LBB 2 streamlined hulls (custom or standard, and applying the +10% streamlining surcharge for each), not LBB5 flattened spheres (personal choice of design rules).

The 600Td standard hull is an INSANE bargain within LBB2-only design rules. It's less than half the cost of a custom hull (streamlined, it's MCr24.2 vs MCr66) and for the J-1 ship that knocks almost a third off ship's price.

My crew salaries come out about Cr250/fortnight(jump) higher (at Cr9360) than yours do on the 600Td version for the same crew. Might be due to different computations for annual overhaul leave.

I'm having it burn 2 weeks of the powerplant fuel allocation per Jump, not all 4 weeks.

Still haven't gone back to add in berthing fees.

Oh, and I didn't discount for mass production (an oversight I really should fix).

I think that's all of the differences. EDIT: No, wait, I missed the cost of the turret (got the weapons and the hardpoint, and the gunnner -- but not the triple turret.)

My 600Td J1 ship comes out to MCr99.8, yours is MCr130.1, each before class discount. I think most of the difference is in the in hull costs.

With a custom hull instead of a standard one, mine would be MCr 141.6 before discount but would have 453Td payload instead of 403Td.

 

[Grav_Moped]

If you are using LBB2 rules you will rarely fill the Subbie, and the 600 tonner will generally be rather empty. Thats why there is such a thing as the Free Trader, it's not very economical, but at least you can often fill it...

Maximum efficiency ships is only about massive cargoes on the main trade routes, between hi-pop worlds.


Note: The canonical Subbie is designed with LBB2'77, hence has bigger, more expensive drives than needed under LBB2'81. Not efficient...

I though the '77 drives were the same as the '81 drives, with the only difference being the PN=JN rule. Did they change drive sizes by rating between the editions too?

About the trade rules: If we're not filling cargo holds, then the most-cost-efficient ship is whichever one can fill its holds. Which puts the floor on cargo rates quite a bit higher than defining it in terms of the most efficient available ship.

I thought the point of the (broken) cargo rate rules was that the cargo available to PCs for transport was whatever was left over after the big corporate guys got the rest of it. At least, that's what seems to be the retcon after Traveller went from being a small-ship/low traffic universe to a big-ship/high traffic one.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but where in LBB2 RAW does annual maintenance go by jumps made rather than straight time? I only recall greater chance of problems if so long past the due date, and nothing about tracking jumps.

The same place it says that a person during low passage doesn't gain weight. And where it says that if you shut down your PP for a week it doesn't "burn" fuel.

As Proneutron observed, I interpolated it.

RAW, an XBoat doing 43 Jumps per year doesn't wear out any faster than a Free Trader doing 25 per year. That seems unreasonable.

The premise is that the requirement for annual overhaul is based on industry-standard operating procedures, and deviation from them will affect maintenance requirements accordingly.

As a ref, I probably wouldn't penalize PCs that do it occasionally. If they make a regular practice of it, yeah.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Note that the single turret (& gunner) is a very heavy burden for small ship, skewing your results.

Absolutely. A turret is 5 tons plus Cr6915 per jump (2 weeks). This includes the financed cost of the turret, weapons (LMS), and gunner (full) stateroom, plus gunner salary and life support.

Wait. Found a mistake in my numbers: I left out the price of the triple turrets themselves (was only counting the weapons and hardpoint). Gotta go back and fix that. #sigh#

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I though the '77 drives were the same as the '81 drives, with the only difference being the PN=JN rule. Did they change drive sizes by rating between the editions too?

The Drive Potential Table changed, the drives themselves are unchanged.

E.g. a 400 Dt with J-1, M-1, PP-1 ship needs C drives in '77 and B drives in '81.

 

[kilemall]

Major cost difference, LBB2 requires a LOT more investment in the software, LBB5 abstracts it.


Guess I would double the computer costs in LBB5 ships to true them up.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The first big difference is that I'm using LBB 2 streamlined hulls (custom or standard, and applying the +10% streamlining surcharge for each), not LBB5 flattened spheres (personal choice of design rules).

I, of course, use LBB2 hulls for LBB2 ships.

Streamlining in LBB2 is not +10%, but MCr 1 per 100 Dt (LBB2'81 p15).

The 600Td standard hull is an INSANE bargain within LBB2-only design rules. It's less than half the cost of a custom hull (streamlined, it's MCr24.2 vs MCr66) and for the J-1 ship that knocks almost a third off ship's price.

The standard 600 Dt hull in LBB2 costs MCr 48 (but takes 22 months to build).

So a streamlined standard 600 Dt hull costs:
MCr 48 _ Base hull (LBB2'81 p22)
MCr _6 _ Streamlining (LBB2'81 p15)
=========
MCr 54 _ Total

It's just MCr 12 cheaper than a custom hull, which is nice, but not "an INSANE bargain".

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I thought the point of the (broken) cargo rate rules was that the cargo available to PCs for transport was whatever was left over after the big corporate guys got the rest of it. At least, that's what seems to be the retcon after Traveller went from being a small-ship/low traffic universe to a big-ship/high traffic one.

Agreed, but there are large differences between the vast majority of low pop worlds and a few high pop worlds.

If we look at trade volumes in Gurps Far Trader, most systems in Traveller are outposts of no significant economic value (≈low pop), and does not generate enough trade for the megacorps to bother. LBB2 trade rules works decently for the occasional Free Trader that stops by.

High pop worlds on the other hand generate massive amounts of trade (with each other), and are presumably dominated by megacorp freighters. Free Traders have to compete for the small scraps of trade going to nearby low pop worlds.


Basically the LBB2 trade rules model Free Traders, not the large regular trade flows we try to model in this thread. And that is why the small, inefficient ships in LBB2 exist. And conversely the efficient ships in this thread will not visit low pop worlds.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Let's take a closer look at the external trade of the Mora system.



Trade Volumes to Mora:


Nearly all the trade goes to the nearby pop A system Fornice, with some trade to close high pop worlds.

Even the adjacent low pop systems Nadrin and Dojodo generates next to no trade volume, a few thousand Dton per year or in the region of 100 Dton per week. Large shipping lines will not send ships there...


If we add upp all the trade to Mora from the Spinward Marches and some other sectors:

Distant sectors like the Solomani Rim generates very little freight, but surprisingly quite a lot of passenger traffic.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So, most of the trade will go on J-2 route to Fornice and some trade will go on J-6 routes to Palique (and Trin), Heroni (and Rhylanor), and Duale (and Lunion).

Especially the route to Heroni has no viable stop-overs, so requires a direct J-6 route.

Another notable trade route (25 MDt/year) is the 12 Parcek run to Vincennes.


So, what's the point of all this blather: Well, we can't ignore geography when we optimise trade. Sometimes J-1 or J-2 chains are viable, sometimes high jump ships are needed.