• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

My players dont get it, how am i failing to teach them

So my players are Traveller newbies, I'm trying real hard to teach them but im feeling they just dont get it! They are both heavily experienced with Dumb20 so I understand there is a hige leap! So I'm wondering jas anyone else had this problem, and what was your solution, and any suggestions appreciated
 
You need to be a little clearer. Just what aren't they getting? What version of Traveller? From you comment about "Dumb20" I assume you aren't talking about Traveller 20.
 
I ran a game recently for 6 months with nubbies. Some got it some did not. It maybe a question of not likening a Science Fiction Background. Also Traveller requires tons more player independence than most other role playing games. There is no experience system that directs player in actions. They must see their character's grow in background not in skills.
 
How much of the rules have they read? Sometimes it is just easier and faster to describe the sitch and say: "roll 2d6".
 
I'll assume they don't read the rules; for newbies, it's the referee's job to run the game, and to take as much burden away from newbies as reasonable.

From the initial post, I assume that since they know D20, and are used to levels and D&D-like game systems, they are therefore new to lifepath character generation and a task system that doesn't rely so much on critical hits and double damage. They may miss point-buy chargen. They may be geared towards heroic characters.

In a way, I suppose each "Career Term" is like a "Level", and that player characters gain all their levels before adventures begin. Maybe.

But even with all of that, the goal is to Know Your Players and try to craft the adventure so they will enjoy it, despite the new rules, even if that means knowing when to bend the rules to accommodate their newbie-natures. If they're both butt-kickers, maybe they need to be space marines in battledress and PGMPs, fighting the Zhodani on the ground in the Jewell subsector during the 5th Frontier War. Etc.
 
Last edited:
Traveller is more like gaming a novel or play that gets written as it goes. It isn't some scripted thing like online RPG's are where all you have to do (generally) is kill stuff and get rewards. The game itself requires no real decision making or deductive reasoning on the part of players.

That is, they don't have to solve a problem beyond which weapon or such to use on a baddie or even another player.

Traveller on the other hand requires often being put in a situation (assuming a good ref) where you need to problem solve; be it economic, military, survival, or something else. Part of the problem comes when the player(s) has little or no background in what his or her character is supposed to be.

For example, how does one play a now mercenary who is an ex-Marine and on some exotic world in the middle of a firefight if they never even played military strategy games let alone actually was in the military or even worse, has never even fired a real weapon?
Alot of younger kids and adults today seem to lack even basic skills for dealing with outdoor survival, first aid, operating or fixing machinery, or any of a number of other skills they would need to function in Traveller for real.

I'd think they need to first spend some time learning how to be their character. That is, like actors in a play they need to learn their part before they go on stage.
 
You could set them up with a railroading styled adventure that is more scripted and has an in-charge NPC who gets the players into some sort of trouble, then gets himself killed off and they are left holding the whatsit.

The NPC sticks around long enough for hem to make some contacts, get a taste of how the various rule mechanisms work with the skills they have, and then they are cut lose with bad guys on their tail and having to figure out how to get from planet A to planet B to deliver the Maltese Falcon-y thing before they get killed. This will keep them moving, things will stay exciting, and they will learn how to make decisions within the context of the game. If things bog down, the baddies show up and give them a nudge, they gather another clue on where to go next from the bodies or something and then off they go.

By the time they finish the adventure they ought to have drawn the notice of at least one potential patron who could have a real job ready to offer them, and they will also be able to handle that sort of job on their own with no railroading. Think of it as the paper & pencil version of the sort of character generation cum tutorial that computer RPG's like Fallout and Skyrim do. Gets the players into the spirit of the game smoothly and with so much to do they are learning how to play right without getting so overloaded they just stand around and wonder what to do.
 
I think it is interesting we have all expressed similar thoughts. Does this condemn other games or Traveller. I think its a little of both.
 
Yeah i hear everyone's points, and yes i am railroading them ATM, i guess what i was trying to convey was distance, scope, and vastness in D20 your on a world and probably have travelled a fair amount of it or know someone who has, in other sci-fi you have FTL/SubSpace comms im struggling to get across the vastness and communication issues! its frustrating me right now because they have spent the last 8+ weeks travelling with only one planet fall, ive been playing the time of communication but they are not picking it up! i get the impression that to them everything is just around the corner and help is a comm away!
without killing them or appearing to be a troll how do i stress these points while maintaining the enjoyability and length if the campaign? i dont want to ditch the game or the players as they are good guys - just feel frustrated they dont get it yet
 
Does this condemn other games or Traveller. I think its a little of both.

ouch i think it condemn's other games more than Traveller! IMHO the whole number crunchy level 1-20 thing i never got i remember back in the day players turning up with 20 character sheets 1 for each level!

IMHO opinion RPG's went down a wrong turn when levels and plus's became the "in thing" trying to remind people its "Role" playing not rollplaying
 
without killing them or appearing to be a troll how do i stress these points while maintaining the enjoyability and length if the campaign?


That's easy. All you need to do is throw some near misses at them. Repeatedly rub their d20-trained noses in the idea of one-week-per-jump.

Say they're on Regina and they hear that someone or something they need is on Ruie. They jump away thinking they're just popping down to the store for a six pack and arrive a week later.

When they get to Ruie and ask "Where's Joe?", the NPC's answer is "He left ten days ago!".

When they complain that Bob on Regina told them Joe was here on Ruie, the NPC's answer is "Bob left here over two weeks ago, pinheads. It took him a week to get to Regina and talk to you. It then took you a week to get to Ruie and talk to me. That adds up to two weeks. Sheesh, it's like you dopes have never heard of jump drive or something..."

Throw some near misses at them. Have the person move on, have the ship they want to meet jump away, have the job they heard about already be taken, have the sale on groat fur already be over, have the merc unit stop hiring, or have the market for their kian feathers collapse.

Better yet, have them have to wait over two weeks for the order and delivery of the part they need to fix their ship, fail to honor a shipping contract because of that wait, and then have them have to pay a monetary forfeit.

Inflict time on them. Rub their noses in it. You're the GM. It's your job.
 
Yeah i hear everyone's points, and yes i am railroading them ATM, i guess what i was trying to convey was distance, scope, and vastness in D20 your on a world and probably have travelled a fair amount of it or know someone who has, in other sci-fi you have FTL/SubSpace comms im struggling to get across the vastness and communication issues! its frustrating me right now because they have spent the last 8+ weeks travelling with only one planet fall, ive been playing the time of communication but they are not picking it up! i get the impression that to them everything is just around the corner and help is a comm away!
without killing them or appearing to be a troll how do i stress these points while maintaining the enjoyability and length if the campaign? i dont want to ditch the game or the players as they are good guys - just feel frustrated they dont get it yet

You can have the patrons emphasize that they (the patrons) are hiring them (the PCs) because any other help is far, far away in another star system.

You can produce a 'campaign newspaper' in the form of a sheet of TNS newsbriefs per game week (Or however often you can manage; it's quite a bit of work). One or two newsbriefs may originate on the current world and may or may not be relevant. The rest brings news from the vast outside world. One fun little dodge is to have the same item show up twice in a row because they jumped along the same route that the news did.

You can have the information they have about a situation turn out to be outdated when they reach their destination. In the time it took for the call for help from a neighboring system to reach the patron's world and the PCs travelling to the neighboring world, a minimum of two weeks (usually several days more) have gone by. A lot can happen in two weeks.


Hans
 
i guess what i was trying to convey was distance, scope, and vastness [...] i get the impression that to them everything is just around the corner and help is a comm away!

Here's a win-win: give them a dungeon crawl in space to drive the point home.

Assuming their astrogator is not a supreme master: their ship arrives in the far outsystem, precipitated early out of jump by a massive planetoid. Adjacent to the planetoid is a derelict spacecraft -- a 3,000t freighter or something. No apparent damage. If they investigate, show that its communications array was sheared off by causes unknown, the fuel tanks are nearly dry, and the corpses of seven crew are on board. Logs indicate that the ship misjumped into an empty hex, and spent the last of its life support trying to reach this system. The computer was programmed to bring the ship as close to the system as possible and then set velocity zero.

Something like that.
 
I think that rather than 'rubbing their noses in' the differences between Traveller and the games they are used to, you need to be providing them initially with some material they can relate to, and wean them away slowly.

You say you have been in space for 8 weeks - I'd recommend getting them dirtside quickly before they take a dislike to what they don't understand and go play something else.

Bring the communication lag in by some of the methods outlined above, by all means, but give them something to have fun with. Give them a few gangs of punks (orcs) to fight, have them explore a deserted office block or laboratory at night (dungeon), trying to find something of value (treasure). Get them into trouble with the local crime boss or police (or both) and show them the fun of a grav-car chase. Let them know that the 'interstellar ferry' that services this backwater left last week and isn't due back until next week, and somehow they have to stay alive and keep whatever-it-is safe from all interested parties until they can get off-world.

I've had a few games crash through trying to show folks something they didn't want to see. Sometimes you just have to dumb it down to your players' level... ;)
 
I second Icosahedron's thoughts. But... don't call it "dumbing down"... heck, give them something they can enjoy, regardless of its (lack of) sophistication. Game.
 
Yeah i hear everyone's points, and yes i am railroading them ATM, i guess what i was trying to convey was distance, scope, and vastness in D20 your on a world and probably have travelled a fair amount of it or know someone who has, in other sci-fi you have FTL/SubSpace comms im struggling to get across the vastness and communication issues! its frustrating me right now because they have spent the last 8+ weeks travelling with only one planet fall, ive been playing the time of communication but they are not picking it up! i get the impression that to them everything is just around the corner and help is a comm away!
without killing them or appearing to be a troll how do i stress these points while maintaining the enjoyability and length if the campaign? i dont want to ditch the game or the players as they are good guys - just feel frustrated they dont get it yet

1) Be patient.

2) Communicate.

3) Be prepared to move the story along, sometimes they don't know what to say or do unless there is an actual scenario happening.
 
Play the players, not the game. Keep in mind that no one cares if it takes 4 weeks to get somewhere if the goal is worth 4 weeks of time. Travel costs and let them pay that, but let them enjoy the game.

Leitz
 
Give them more opportunities for character interactions, and give them some real characters to interact with. Maybe Oddball (from Kelly's Heroes) is minding the fuel depot.

On combat, if that's what they want, give them some. Give them a single yahoo with a shotgun who gets the drop on them at personal range. Especially if they're moving around like a gang of toughs in a bad section of town. They step around a corner and he shoves the barrel into a set of ribs and lets loose to open the combat. They probably walked into gangland and just figured all the points they had in GC and Melee would protect them. Give them hints, or let someone with Recon make a roll after they're in danger but before the first shot (which happens no matter which way they go.)

Then next time, perhaps they'll roleplay out using that Streetwise to shake down some info on the area before they take a hike. ;) With plenty of character interaction.

If they're used to the game cycle of a "modern" fantasy game, it'll take time for them to come around to regular roleplaying. When you see it, reward it in the game. Give the player that gives their character some real character some breaks. The NPC who won't talk otherwise takes a liking to them, or considers them "real" even if they are a bit odd. Or there's an underground of people with their quirk. Or the behavior angers someone into makiing a slip.

Learn to use tension, rather than combat, as the centerpiece of the game. At least once per night the whole party should be wondering what they've gotten themselves into, and why they didn't ask more, or better, questions earlier. Traveller is like the horror games that way.

Don't be afraid to kill some characters. They should be a bit more disposable than in other games, especially if your players don't shy from combat as much as is healthy. If your players set up combat situations to favor themselves using lots of RP-gained intel from sources they've done all they can to verify, then let them do some bloodletting. But if it turns out they believed someone with a biased or incomplete view, let them get their tookuses kicked and let them know why.

Also, the players may be expecting regular payoffs in the game. There's no XP and no levelling, so equipment often becomes the payoff. That's OK, so long as the equipment beraks or overconfident characters carrying it die occasionally, taking their toys with them. Let them get their first big gun and battle dress (it's what they want, usually), then shoot some things up, then let them come up against a determined cop with a revolver or pig-sticker when they stop to have a drink or take a dump (killing them on the pot is always fun and memorable. ;) ) After a while, it'll be clear that powerful armor and weapons aren't the answer to everything (though if used intelligently, they can be the answer to some specific problems.)

Finally, make it significant when they solve a problem through thinking and roleplay. Something they can see. A government falls, a new technology becomes available (use this sparingly, and keep it local), they have a new toy to play with (ship, alien weapon, etc.)--that has its own mysteries still in it.

If you pay them in the right coin, they'll learn to enjoy Traveller for what it is, but it takes time to get past the "I roll to see if I win" mentality. They've been taught a role-playing game is nothing but a series of perception and knowledge checks until combat starts. And while that can have its own sort of fun, if used well, they now need to learn to not just roll for answers or interesting events, but come up with them themselves.

Good luck, and most of all, have fun. :)
 
Back
Top