My players dont get it, how am i failing to teach them

[Gray Pennell]

Yeah i hear everyone's points, and yes i am railroading them ATM, i guess what i was trying to convey was distance, scope, and vastness in D20 your on a world and probably have travelled a fair amount of it or know someone who has, in other sci-fi you have FTL/SubSpace comms im struggling to get across the vastness and communication issues! its frustrating me right now because they have spent the last 8+ weeks travelling with only one planet fall, ive been playing the time of communication but they are not picking it up! i get the impression that to them everything is just around the corner and help is a comm away!
without killing them or appearing to be a troll how do i stress these points while maintaining the enjoyability and length if the campaign? i dont want to ditch the game or the players as they are good guys - just feel frustrated they dont get it yet

This is an interesting problem. When I ran my adventure that circumnavigated the 5 sisters I used several techniques. First they had to chase down a missing scout and her ship from its last known location and time so they spent a lot of time looking at the map planning a course and plotting interception times. Since they were the ones coming to the recuse they had to get control of the time.

Next we used the week in jump for both meta gaming and role playing. We discussed training and plans. Another thing I did with this time was encourage background development and role playing. I randomly rolled to see which one would open up "around the dinner table". Since I built the campaign around these backgrounds when they talked some revelled plot clues and hooks. Though it was frustrating that the one who dated the missing scout never told his story. This gave jump time a purpose in the game.

Another that really shocked the players was when they did try to communicate back to HQ. They used 5 Sister Express and Xboat routes and realized that it would take 6 weeks to get the message there and 6 weeks for a reply.

All together I ran the campaign for about 6 months and did one planet fall every week and half.

 

[mirc]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Originally Posted by saundby[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Don't be afraid to kill some characters. They should be a bit more disposable than in other games, especially if your players don't shy from combat as much as is healthy. If your players set up combat situations to favor themselves using lots of RP-gained intel from sources they've done all they can to verify, then let them do some bloodletting. But if it turns out they believed someone with a biased or incomplete view, let them get their tookuses kicked and let them know why.[/FONT]

I'd second that too, but I tend to have a few pre-generated characters (outfleshed NPCs) ready to keep the players of the deceased from being left behind. I'm sure experienced GM can pop up characters out of nowhere if the need arises, but as it's probably an obvious requirement to preparing a campaign, I think it deserves to be stated too.

I've had my share of game sessions where a player (who lost his character) was left out of the game, sitting back in a quiet corner to generate a new character while the GM kept us playing along. The interuptions from trying to coach the inexperienced player through the generation process simultaneously of course completely killed the mood.

Given the time normal Character generation can take, I do like to have a player back in the game asap while I'm running the game. Very archetypical, cliché characters of course, some people the players can instantly relate to, with a useable link to the previously played character or the group (old friendship, the patron's iconic mechanic, etc.).

Let them get killed if necessary, it's the ultimate lesson after all. But when characters get killed, never leave a player behind (unattended) after he or she learned the lesson, he or she is there for the fun too...

 

[Leitz]

This sort of blended with another thread on alternate character rolling.

The short answer may be evaluating what you're trying to "teach" them. That Traveller is a lousy game? That Sci-Fi can't carry a story line? How can you teach someone who is content in their point of view? What can you do to arouse discontent with the status quo?

For me it was star ships. I love the idea of designing a ship, cruising among the stars, and either making money or exploring. Or both. Figure out what your players want that is not provided in what they already do and they will follow your lead into the new system.

Leitz

 

[VonPickles]

And then there was one...
well i had a player quit during the week
i was surprised to be honest, i thought the player that was really struggling was going to quit, however after our to and fro emailing, i have helped him to understand Traveller a bit better and now he's more keen than ever!

Things i have learnt
1 You cant always please your players, sometimes its the game, the GM, other players, or the commitment
2 Give the players their own piece of the game, the universe is massive and there is always room for player submissions!
3 Provide a framework for the first sessions (as many as it takes for them to get their heads round it all)

So im finding my game much more enjoyable now, its better to have one involved character, than one that is and one thats not!
over the next week we will designing the pirate fleet that is tied to my players background he is enthusiastic and giving me a ton off input into its design, hes wrapped

so thanks for all the input guys, it has given me a good grounding and basis to continue building our campaign

 

[Leitz]

Cool! It sounds like you have succeeded immensely. One active convert beats lots of passive spectators every time!

Leitz

 

[CosmicGamer]

As some suggested, start off with them on a job to go somewhere to meet or find someone.

If the main thing you want them to get is the communication and distance issues you can have the ship break down in the backwater. With a part they need not available locally, they will have to wait for a ship to arrive in system and kindly take a purchase request for the part to a system that can provide the part. Wait some more for the part to get shipped back.

Let a helpful local star port worker advise them and help them understand how long it will take.

Start off the wait with very little to do but then as they get to know some locals give them some fun things to keep them distracted. A local festival, a quick job that needs doing, a shop that sells something unusual,... Keep the activities spread out a bit with more sitting around without much to do.

As time goes by, let them wonder if the part will come. The local star port worker might start voicing concern. Maybe the ship that had the purchase order lost it, got attacked by pirates, miss-jumped... We better send out another request...

When the part arrives and the ship jumps off to their destination they find that the person is not there but has either left them a message "I've gone to system xyz and will be back soon" or they find information that they have gone on a business trip. Now the adventurers have to either chase the guy down (which has costs) or wait for him (or her... or it?) to get back.

Perhaps at some future date they are denied credit somewhere because of that part they reordered for the ship - unless someone was smart enough to cancel the order and pay the restocking charge.

 

[Amber Chancer]

As some suggested, start off with them on a job to go somewhere to meet or find someone.

If the main thing you want them to get is the communication and distance issues you can have the ship break down in the backwater. With a part they need not available locally, they will have to wait for a ship to arrive in system and kindly take a purchase request for the part to a system that can provide the part. Wait some more for the part to get shipped back.

Let a helpful local star port worker advise them and help them understand how long it will take.

Start off the wait with very little to do but then as they get to know some locals give them some fun things to keep them distracted. A local festival, a quick job that needs doing, a shop that sells something unusual,... Keep the activities spread out a bit with more sitting around without much to do.

As time goes by, let them wonder if the part will come. The local star port worker might start voicing concern. Maybe the ship that had the purchase order lost it, got attacked by pirates, miss-jumped... We better send out another request...

When the part arrives and the ship jumps off to their destination they find that the person is not there but has either left them a message "I've gone to system xyz and will be back soon" or they find information that they have gone on a business trip. Now the adventurers have to either chase the guy down (which has costs) or wait for him (or her... or it?) to get back.

Perhaps at some future date they are denied credit somewhere because of that part they reordered for the ship - unless someone was smart enough to cancel the order and pay the restocking charge.

I like the way you think about gaming, CG ... I wanna play one of your adventures!

 

[Peter Newman]

You could always run 'Shadows' for them since it is just a dungeon in space.

 

[Leitz]

I like the way you think about gaming, CG ... I wanna play one of your adventures!

I enjoyed playing in Cosmic's game.

Leitz

 

[saundby]

You've done well. I'm glad to hear things aregoing well now and you + player are having fun.

I've been down this road more than once. I'm going through it now, too. Yeah, you can't please everyone. I try, but it "takes two" to make it work.

Some players only want a very restrictive game: they find the amazing power in some obscure d20 supplement, then stomp everything until you find a way to control it. At which point they add another power pointed out by someone on a forum...

Others really do want to learn, and experience the adventure. But they have trouble finding the payoff they expect. They beat the adventure...where's the treasure? Where are the new powers? If there's no XP, no gold, limits on weapons and equipment...tell me why I'm playing?

Then, even if they get some equipment they see as a "payoff", if you go and make it not act like magic, you're taking it away from them--nerfing it. You're stealing their fun.

It's a tough proposition, selling a different style of game. They feel they already know what an RPG is, they expect an RPG to just be the same thing with new window-dressing. When it isn't, well, they can feel betrayed, or like you're telling them they're not the RPG god that their mega-powerful D&D and WH40K characters proclaim them to be. It's taken very personally.

I try to diffuse that. Some things I take on directly, but without seeming to blame the players. It's not their fault the game they've always played misled them. Other things I use indirection on, like letting them discover the rewards in the game.

It's hardest with the players that won't interact with NPCs because they've learned to treat everything in the game as a target.

I'm pleased that I've kept all my newbies on board so far. I can tell there's still some yearning after plain old hack and slash. I throw in some gratuitous killing at times (usually animal encounters, but sometimes I let them catch up with some reprehensible types.) It lets off some steam.

I think we're due some bad guys to perforate this Saturday, in fact. They've earned it. They've gone through one mystery and one planetfall without shooting anyone, even when they really felt like it. Time to let their id monsters have a free run...