off topic but -- Space 1889??

[Tanuki]

There's a link off of Peter's Traveller Page to his Space 1889 page where he's posted a Space 1889/Sky Galleons of Mars Consolidated Gun List and a Civil War Variant for Ironclads and Ether Flyers.

Take a look! http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

If you wish to get miniatures for the Space 1889 game you may wish to check out www.parroomstation.net

They have a large amount of minis that fit perfectly into that game. They even include a guiding hand to that game in the form of Edgar Rice Burroughs Green Martians (cephalid germ plasm hybrids)and John Carter (Virginian Gentleman gone Native) There is a native princess too but I believe her ears need to be covered with putty to make a red martian.

As an aside, a couple of years ago Game Tech was making Ether Flyers and Sky Galleons but they dissappeared from the web and a japanese company took their place. Does anyone know if they still exist and what their website is. Thanks in Advance.

My impression of Space 1889, find a system that works and keep the background.

Lord Iron Wolf

 

[jchurchill]

My impression of Space 1889, find a system that works and keep the background.

Lord Iron Wolf
================================================
Actually, I find that you can take the TRaveller system and use the background material with CT. Works well and fleshs out some of the gaps in Space 1889...

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Lord Iron Wolf:
If you wish to get miniatures for the Space 1889 game you may wish to check out www.parroomstation.net

They have a large amount of minis that fit perfectly into that game. They even include a guiding hand to that game in the form of Edgar Rice Burroughs Green Martians (cephalid germ plasm hybrids)and John Carter (Virginian Gentleman gone Native) There is a native princess too but I believe her ears need to be covered with putty to make a red martian.

As an aside, a couple of years ago Game Tech was making Ether Flyers and Sky Galleons but they dissappeared from the web and a japanese company took their place. Does anyone know if they still exist and what their website is. Thanks in Advance.

My impression of Space 1889, find a system that works and keep the background.

Lord Iron Wolf

Unfortunatly Game Tech has ceased operation. But there is a chance that someone will buy the molds and get a licence for Frank to produce them. There is some discussion of this at the SGoM group Yahoo group.
Peter V.

 

[clementk]

Some related games and minis that may be of use. This period (historical, alternate, or steampunk) is one of my favorites in both RPG and wargaming.

Aeronef, a simplified version of Full Thrust. They also have some minis.

Wessex Games also makes a skirmish game called Voyages Extraordinaires though it's not my favorite. (has some neat ideas though) The minis are quite useful though.

For S:1889 skirmish I'd recommend Gaslight. Fast and fun and about a step removed from being a rpg. Also has an egroup.

If you want something a little more structured and "realistic" I'd go with the venerable (20 years+) but still great and easily adapted (and it has been check out all the variants for sale) The Sword and the Flame. Frankly just get it anyway. It's *that* good.

Reviresco Lots of goodies here.

If you haven't visited Major General Tremorden Rederring's Colonial-era Wargames Page go there now.

As for a rpg game system, my personal picks* would be either Adventure!, BESM / Tri-Stat , or Castle Falkenstein . The latter if I could convince anyone to play a game using just cards. "Dice? Civilized people do *not* play with dice."

[EDIT] I forgot to mention Deadlands which also has some fairly useful miniatures, both metal and cardstock.

Actual system used would come down to what the players were familiar with and how much bother I wanted to put into setting up the game.

Finally I'd be remiss if I did not mention the excellent ColonialWars egroup. Wonderful people with lots of ideas and knowledge.

As to Space: 1889 itself, I wasn't into gaming this period when it was released though I liked the ads/presentation of the material. For some reason I got the impression that S:1889 was a bit dry/detailed in places or something just didn't feel right. <shrugs> I'll have to take a look at my copy of the rules this week.

Casey

* Hmmm maybe Call of Cthulhu Gaslight if I could handwave some inventor/gadget rules.

 

[William]

Originally posted by secretagent:
If nothing else it's something to rip off for a Traveller Universe.

A major nasty gm trick is to remember everything you ever saw in "Wild Wild West" (to include the episode with nukes) and drop the crew of a Type S into the middle of a pi**ing contest between the worlds Victoria and Grant...

Major freak outs always occur in my experiance... ;'>

William

 

[Elliot]

We had great fun with 1889, I remember it really capturing the imagination - my crit is that

(a) It was too expensive for a minority game

(b) The rules and execution are a bit too wargamey for the setting - (although that could be a criticism levelled at a lot of GDW products)

(c) In my view, it was also just slightly ahead of its time, perhaps only by a year or two - the new phase of RPGing (acting not fighting) was only just starting to bring in new RPGers (i.e. non reserve force science grads - and, by the way, no criticism to them). I think a year or two later 1889 may have made more of an impact.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, but thats my 2cr

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Elliot:

(b) The rules and execution are a bit too wargamey for the setting - (although that could be a criticism levelled at a lot of GDW products)

That's one of the major reasons I'd not use it these days for roleplaying in that period / type of setting. If I want a wargame I'll play a wargame and do so. <shrugs>

(c) In my view, it was also just slightly ahead of its time. <snip> I think a year or two later 1889 may have made more of an impact.

Perhaps. Vampire came out in 1991. Ars Magica was around before (1987?) then but I don't think many saw it before the WW edition in 1992. (except for some later influential game designers it seems). Then again being published by GDW may have not helped Space: 1889 either if it had been published a little later. And historical type games are a bit tricky to sell anyway it seems.

Personally I didn't get much beyond hack & slash until the late 80's or so when I found a used copy of CoC 3rd edition boxed set at the FLGS.

Casey

 

[DElrick]

I had a lot of fun with Space 1889 until the local games club folded. My current group aren't subtle enough for it (they aren't really subtle enough for anything except Paranoia, but I keep trying to educate them <sigh>).

I really enjoyed the game background - especially the Red Captains at Korkoram and so on. My main problem with the game was that it used three different dice mechanics for different parts of the game. It would have been perfect if GDW had picked one and run with it through the entire game...

Just my 2 shillings worth.

Cheers

David

 

[Gallowglass]

Originally posted by Elliot:
(SNIPPAGE)(c) In my view, it was also just slightly ahead of its time, perhaps only by a year or two - the new phase of RPGing (acting not fighting) was only just starting to bring in new RPGers (i.e. non reserve force science grads - and, by the way, no criticism to them). I think a year or two later 1889 may have made more of an impact.
(SNIPPAGE)

Hmm, so Ghostbusters was all about fighting? And Sky Realms of Jorune? No offence, but whilst Witless W*nkers might like to lay claim to "acting" style RPG's they are lying. I was participating in debates about how much acting and fighting made a good RPG in the mid to late eighties in UK fanzines (circa Ars Magica, and the advent of Freeforms...), and even then we were all being told that everything we were discussing had been raised before in Owl and Weasel (the Games Workshop linked fanzine that mutated in to White Dwarf in 1977) in the mid-seventies...

I think what scuppered 1889 was that it was a) too wargamish (even for GDW, the personal combat rules are clunky, especially when contrasted with the rather Toon like skills system) and b) overshadowed by the swing towards "real world" settings. Remember, this was the heyday of Cyberpunk (2300AD was re-tooled as CP, Talsorians CP was released, ShadowRun, ICE's Cyberspace...)and the likes of Vampire: The Posturing mostly coat-tailed its way in to peoples minds because in all but technology the World of Darkness (at least as defined then) was a Cyberpunk setting. 1889 was (at least implicitly) too "primary colour" for the times, not enough grit, angst and ambiguity. Unless you tackled racism and colonialism full on, which was a tad too MUCH reality for most gamers!

Originally posted by Casey
Vampire came out in 1991. Ars Magica was around before (1987?) then but I don't think many saw it before the WW edition in 1992. (except for some later influential game designers it seems).

Funnily enough, most of my experiences with Ars Magic were with the Lion Rampant 2nd edition and the bust up with WW over some of what went in to 3rd edition is pretty much where I lost interest. And where my cordial loathing for Witless W*nkers began...

originally posted by Dave Elrick
I really enjoyed the game background - especially the Red Captains at Korkoram and so on. My main problem with the game was that it used three different dice mechanics for different parts of the game. It would have been perfect if GDW had picked one and run with it through the entire game...

I ran it for a while replacing most of the published mechanics with CT-esque/DGP task system derived set up, which worked OK, but these days I suspect I'd just use the setting material in CoC...

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

 

[Elliot]

Ok, OK!

I accept that the rpg as acting not wargaming debate had raged for years - I was converted by a discussion as to how to the AD&D Slavelords and Giants modules 'realistic' in about 1980. It was only then that what Traveller was about really dawned on me (see the debate on Travelller as an adult game).

You may have been in the avant garde but frankly Sky Realms of Jorune was a ultra minority game that did not capture the £$£$£ spending punters imagination (I worked in an RPG shop at the time and it just gathered dust until I bought to clear stock space). Ars Magica was the same.

Even the WW concept (which was a revenue earner) took a while to reach the happy masses. I remember Forgotten Realms playing kids getting into Vampire a lot later than its release date - IIRC it achieved critical mass as a concept when Mage came out. 1889 was already back shelf by then.

I also think the essential humour of 1889 was lost on many and the fact that the rules diverted attention from that humour added also to its demise (that and it wasn't set in America!)

 

[Gallowglass]

Originally posted by Elliot:
SNIPPAGE

... I also think the essential humour of 1889 was lost on many and the fact that the rules diverted attention from that humour added also to its demise (that and it wasn't set in America!)

I'm in two minds about that: the same criticism (that it wasn't america-centred enough) was levelled at 2300, but I don't know if there is any hard evidence to back it up. The rules certainly didn't help the humuour, but then I always felt that the humuour was slightly ill-defined: was it meant to be slapstick (Carrry on Up Olympus Mons as it were) or more subtle? If the rules had been more streamlined, I think people would have found their own styles and it might have flown, but the rules were just too confused: a miniatures wargame combat system, married to two Toon-like skill resolution systems, neither of which seemed consistant with the aerial combat game, Sky Galleons of Mars.

*sigh* I just wish Frank Chadwick would find someone willing to take on the license and let them do it using Fudge, or BRP or something... ah well.

And apologies for the strident tone earlier - I had flash backs to various heated arguments in my Uni game soc and in the letters page of various fanzines... I'v etaken my medication now

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by Elliot:
We had great fun with 1889, I remember it really capturing the imagination - my crit is that

(a) It was too expensive for a minority game

(b) The rules and execution are a bit too wargamey for the setting - (although that could be a criticism levelled at a lot of GDW products)

(c) In my view, it was also just slightly ahead of its time, perhaps only by a year or two - the new phase of RPGing (acting not fighting) was only just starting to bring in new RPGers (i.e. non reserve force science grads - and, by the way, no criticism to them). I think a year or two later 1889 may have made more of an impact.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, but thats my 2cr

For me, Well, by the time it came out, I was boucing "Armchair Stretgists" OUT of my RP games, was already introduced to WWG's Ars Magica, was an avid wargamer (SFB, 1776, Axis and Allies, Supremacy, Pax Britannica, Civilization, Starfire) AND into "Story First" traveller gaming... Epic stories, to be sure, but story oriented.

I ran a 4 week (daily 35m game sessions m-f at lunch, in the JROTC room) game of Twighlight 2K 1E with only 3 combats, one of which was their chopper being shot down, in 1986. My players loved it. Maybe it was good modeling by my first Traveller GM... maybe it was being into Trek, Pern, Boroughs, Niven and Douglas Addams.

But Space 1889 caught me on three fronts: Good setting for RP; good wargames; excellent job of tying them together. The lesser points of "Interaction Oriented" gaming beign obviously intended was NOT a GDW (nor even WWG) invention; many games were beginning to go that way. Chaosium's Elfquest.

MT did the same, with a smoother system... but more erratta.

 

[SGavorsky]

Sorry for entering late.

Someone asked about Cloudships and Gunboats earlier. This was an expansion pack for the Sky Galleons of Mars game, which fleshed out the constructions rules to bring them fully in line with the RPG and added an entire new list of ships for the various navies (including hte Japanese and Russians), complete with rather sketchy deck plans (the Belgium cruiser with steam catapults to launch longboats full of marines for boarding actions was great). It also included some deckplans (top decks only) of ships gridded for 25mm minatures and some stand-up cardboard figures to play out boarding actions. I picked up a copy for $3 at a flea market, and have had fun with it.

The S:1889 RPG was very imaginative setting-wise, but the rules were clunky (although the Invention rules were really good). I've toyed on and off with trying to adapt T20 to a version of the setting. If anyone is really interested in the genre, I would say GURPS Steampunk is a must-buy; it really delves into some of the deeper issues of the era that S:1889 tends to glossover in favor of a more Kipling-esque approach (to each their own, however).

One interesting mechanic that might be worth taking a look at was the rules for randomly generating Martian city-states (government type, population, military, etc.) included in The Soldier's Companion and Conklin's Atlas of the Worlds. The system was quick and easy, and with some tweaking would be ideal to flesh out that balkanized planet in Traveller.

 

[Erik Boielle]

00000*sigh* I just wish Frank Chadwick would find someone willing to take on the license and let them do it using Fudge, or BRP or something... ah well.00000

For what its worth, Helograph intended to do a new edition of Space 1889 using the Tri-Stat system (thats er, Big Eyes Small Mouths system right?)

Sadly, and somewhat inexplicably I think, the reprints of the original just didn't sell*, and when the Heliograph guy suggested making the new edition more American focused the mailing list swore at him and called him names** until he just decided to write off the money hed invested in it and give up on it.

Maybe if it was D20...

*And nor did Forgotten Futures, with it similar Scientific Romance theme. Although since thats available on the web for free...

**Well, there was outrage anyway

 

[Tanuki]

I've posted an update to the "Space 1889/Sky Galleons of Mars Consolidated Gun List" on Peter's website for him: http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/1889/index.html

This version corrects a problem in the old PDF file.

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Tanuki:
I've posted an update to the "Space 1889/Sky Galleons of Mars Consolidated Gun List" on Peter's website for him: http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/1889/index.html

This version corrects a problem in the old PDF file.

Thank you Brook!

 

[maitrejeanth]

I ran several Space 1889 campa

 

[maitrejeanth]

I ran several Space 1889 campaigns about 10 years ago and really enjoyed it, as did some of my long-time players if the allusions to gashants that still crop up from time to time are any kind of indicator. Gashants and Rummeht breers (spelling ?), really impressed them at the time.
Being belgians, the game had a special flavour for us, as 1889 belgians filled the niche usually occupied by Nazis in Pulp comics.
I also have fond memories of a camapign where PCs were crewmembers of a Royal Navy space corvette, Lots of fun with this too.
Like a lot of you, I quickly dumped the rather clunky original game mechanisms in favour of BRP/CoC and GURPS afterwards.
Huge potential if you can find suitable players.