Orbital refineries
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Definitely a high value target, particularly if it is a government operation. A good reason why any security would be lurking nearby instead of trying to defend the entire gas giant from illegal skimmers.
Conceptually, the refinery may be in low orbit of the GG with the actual refueling point out near the GG's 100d limit; fuel barges traveling to and from. This allows big merchants and other legitimate customers to top off without having to transit down then up the grav well.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Shhhhh! our players just discovered the sole untouched TL-8 high pop system wildside of the Reft has done just that!
oops..too late
!Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Which IM-TNE-TU yes, includes the players, and the Free Traders. Nassty Guildsmen run the refinery monopoly for Argus/Moibin/Reft..Originally posted by Ran Targas:
^ As large as gas giants are, it would be pretty difficult to charge tolls to skim them. Unless the toll keepers had 360x360 sensor coverage of the entire planet and the ability to police it, it would be relatively easy to avoid detection or prosecution.
But all of this doesn't apply to law abiding citizens, like most of our fellow players
Guildsmen! Always trying to shave another crimp off those poor hard working FT-folkses..downright Vilani of them it is!
P
Pickles
Guest
Makes sense. Depending on how you deal with materials technology IYTU, you could also have a 'beanstalk' pipeline between the gas station and the refinery/high port. Sort of like a much-elongated Cloud City. In fact, that's what's going to be the case IMTU as of this minute.
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
^ Hey Aramis, how are you? Long time ...
I'm just thinking about the volume of space that would require sensor coverage and the effort necessary to maintain and operate the grid; seems to be a lot of time/money/resources to dedicate to prevent access to a relatively abundant and low value commodity. Plus, with the spurious EM signals generated by and space debris drawn to GGs like Jupiter, a sensor grid would provide a lot of false targets. A good combat pilot (say a retired Navy type) would be able to navigate the average sensor net and be in and out without being detected.
Anyway, MTU is not a very cluttered TU until you get really close to population/industrial centers. Unless a GG has a significant population tied to it (a colonized moon or orbital facility), there usually isn't a lot of traffic around. As such, the cost of surveilling the space around an unpopulated GG is uneconomical considering initial costs and maintenance. IMTU, a refueling operation would have to be generating considerable cash to afford the investment and trouble of capturing and prosecuting blockade runners.
Now, near a populated GG, the refueling operation coupled with security for the population or industrial activity could make it economical. Even then, the concentration of security would still be near the population, providing an opportunity for some cheap-skate to skim without much worry of prosecution.
All in all, lots of room for game play whether your a legit operator or a bandit looking for free fuel.
I'm just thinking about the volume of space that would require sensor coverage and the effort necessary to maintain and operate the grid; seems to be a lot of time/money/resources to dedicate to prevent access to a relatively abundant and low value commodity. Plus, with the spurious EM signals generated by and space debris drawn to GGs like Jupiter, a sensor grid would provide a lot of false targets. A good combat pilot (say a retired Navy type) would be able to navigate the average sensor net and be in and out without being detected.
Anyway, MTU is not a very cluttered TU until you get really close to population/industrial centers. Unless a GG has a significant population tied to it (a colonized moon or orbital facility), there usually isn't a lot of traffic around. As such, the cost of surveilling the space around an unpopulated GG is uneconomical considering initial costs and maintenance. IMTU, a refueling operation would have to be generating considerable cash to afford the investment and trouble of capturing and prosecuting blockade runners.
Now, near a populated GG, the refueling operation coupled with security for the population or industrial activity could make it economical. Even then, the concentration of security would still be near the population, providing an opportunity for some cheap-skate to skim without much worry of prosecution.
All in all, lots of room for game play whether your a legit operator or a bandit looking for free fuel.
I think you're assuming a lot more "terrain" than is realistic.
As to my health... stiff, sore, and stuffed up... just finished a move.
Since GG's provide a huge resource, but have a deep jump-inderdict, a couple of ships and a couple distant sats can provide adequate sensor coverage; ship detection by optical at those ranges should be a relatively minor task. If they're travelling in-system, you've got most of a week. If they jump in, you've jump flash. Add 5 or six Type T's, and you've got most civillian tramp ships outclassed...
As to my health... stiff, sore, and stuffed up... just finished a move.
Since GG's provide a huge resource, but have a deep jump-inderdict, a couple of ships and a couple distant sats can provide adequate sensor coverage; ship detection by optical at those ranges should be a relatively minor task. If they're travelling in-system, you've got most of a week. If they jump in, you've jump flash. Add 5 or six Type T's, and you've got most civillian tramp ships outclassed...
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Aramis--Agreed. Or if jump technology is low, a few SDB's (covering worlds with Pop 5+)
If you have an Orbital Fueling Station, you have to have a greasy resaurant and a little shop that sells oversized plastic groat testicles you can hang on the back end of your starship.
I'd say entire communities could grow around an orbital fueling station. It would probably be the starting point for an asteroid mainworld.
Great Idea!
I'd say entire communities could grow around an orbital fueling station. It would probably be the starting point for an asteroid mainworld.
Great Idea!
P
Pickles
Guest
Space Truckers!
Dear Folks -
I'll have to dig out my old HG version of an orbital refinery. Our plan at Tavonni was to set up the refinery at Ryzel (the GG that Tavonni orbits around), then send refined fuel to Tavonni using a transfer orbit. Take a few years to get the pipeline going, but after that you've got a steady stream of refined fuel pods coming in.
'Natch, ya hafta defend the pipeline...
I'll have to dig out my old HG version of an orbital refinery. Our plan at Tavonni was to set up the refinery at Ryzel (the GG that Tavonni orbits around), then send refined fuel to Tavonni using a transfer orbit. Take a few years to get the pipeline going, but after that you've got a steady stream of refined fuel pods coming in.
'Natch, ya hafta defend the pipeline...
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
I'll concede that your average know-nothing trying to scoop a free tank-full would easily fall prey to a few patrol ships and surveillance sats but experienced scouts or IN types (played by experience travellers) would be able to sneak through to the honey pot.
As long as the refueling operation generates the cash needed to maintain 5 or 6 patrol craft, I don't have a problem with it. But if they have to make do with a handful of Sulies, the odds rapidly shift to the runners.
Either way, it makes for an interesting night of gaming.
HOW, Ran, HOW?
"Sneaking" in space is bloody unlikely... at interdict range, most of the incoming vessels will be an order of magnitude brighter than nearby (mostly in IR) or better. Given even modern computer tech, a raic/beowulf cluster, and a 12" IR-capable reflector or 4 with IR CCD, and no atmospheric distortions, you have a really good chance of finding. Better still, with a handful of ships, each shoots the sky aiming at the same star, and you now have a triangulation capability... 3D mapping every hour...
And frontier refueling from a GG is NOT something one can do under fire, so that rules out the speed-approach.
Blast, through, sure. Sneak through? not bloody likely without having insider help.
"Sneaking" in space is bloody unlikely... at interdict range, most of the incoming vessels will be an order of magnitude brighter than nearby (mostly in IR) or better. Given even modern computer tech, a raic/beowulf cluster, and a 12" IR-capable reflector or 4 with IR CCD, and no atmospheric distortions, you have a really good chance of finding. Better still, with a handful of ships, each shoots the sky aiming at the same star, and you now have a triangulation capability... 3D mapping every hour...
And frontier refueling from a GG is NOT something one can do under fire, so that rules out the speed-approach.
Blast, through, sure. Sneak through? not bloody likely without having insider help.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Bromgrev, Sir Dameon Toth--
Exactly!
Shades of Cowboy Bebop's classic "Heavy Metal" episode!
Can you see 'em?
Seedy starport/ spaceports with outlaws and inlaws; luzers & shmuzers; Perverts & Adverts; Lookers, and Hookers; Lowberthers & Middle passagers; hey--is that Trader Jim?
Exactly!
Shades of Cowboy Bebop's classic "Heavy Metal" episode!
Can you see 'em?
Seedy starport/ spaceports with outlaws and inlaws; luzers & shmuzers; Perverts & Adverts; Lookers, and Hookers; Lowberthers & Middle passagers; hey--is that Trader Jim?
Ran Targas
SOC-14 1K
Maybe I don't share you appreciation for 3I sensors or maybe you don't share my suspicion that stealth technology would advance at a steady pace as well.
Regardless, I think there are possibilities here that could be explored; ones that would allow a crafty player to out-smart the local yokels and get himself a free drink.
But then, if you insist on playing strictly by the rules, I guess none of us get one over on Da Man
Spoil sport 
High population systems would be easier to hide in. Tons of small craft traffic, starships, fuel shuttles and the like might make “hiding” easier. A clever transponder cloning program (although highly illegal) could alloy you to look like someone else just long enough to do what you must and get out.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Having purchased the Golden Age CT Corsair booklet from Comstar games..yes those nasty transponder duplicators..
Single identity version: 300KCr
Multiple Identity version(up to 4): 750KCr
For sale at any Law 0 stellar world (TL-9+)...
And of course, illegal if they catch you with 'em, with all the penalties the law can bear down on you with!
Single identity version: 300KCr
Multiple Identity version(up to 4): 750KCr
For sale at any Law 0 stellar world (TL-9+)...
And of course, illegal if they catch you with 'em, with all the penalties the law can bear down on you with!
