Other Starship Combat Systems

[Thunderbolt]

I came across this web site today looking for Honorverse images. It seems to be dedicated to various starship combat systems:

http://www.star-ranger.com/Home.htm

Has anyone tried some of these other systems?

 

[soloprobe]

Ah yes,
Starship Combat news....I've known about it for years.......So many game sytems......So little time...

 

[aramis]

Quite a few... like about 10 of them. Most don't have Honorverse versions, and the few that do, I've not played.

Saganami Island Tactical Simulator is specifically the honorverse one.

Here are the one's I've played from their list
Game Systems Currently Available
Battlefleet Gothic
BattleSpace / AeroTech 2
Battlestations
Full Thrust
Lightning Strike
Power Projection
Star Blazers Fleet Battle System
Star Fleet Battle Force
Star Fleet Battles (Des, Cdr, Capt)
Starfight
Starfire
Starforce Terra


Other Games

Slag!, etc.( I wrote the semi-official campaign system for it)

Strategic / Campaign Games
Federation & Empire
Imperium, 3rd Millennium

Of them, Starfire is the closest to the Honorverse that I've played. (Webber was the line developer for late 1st and most of 2nd ed Starfire...)

 

[Thunderbolt]

Aside from Power Projection (Full Thrust), has anyone tried these other systems in conjunction with Traveller (I'm guessing there are painful design conversions required!)

 

[aramis]

Aside from Power Projection (Full Thrust), has anyone tried these other systems in conjunction with Traveller (I'm guessing there are painful design conversions required!)

Starfire, and yes, painful.
SLAG! Not as painful, but still...
SFB ... let's just say, it was sorely unsatisfying.

 

[BillDowns]

SFB ... let's just say, it was sorely unsatisfying.

Just curious, was it SFB itself, or the conversion? I am curious about the conversion itself, but confess to some misgivings. SFB can be a right royal PITA....

 

[aramis]

Just curious, was it SFB itself, or the conversion? I am curious about the conversion itself, but confess to some misgivings. SFB can be a right royal PITA....

I loved SFB as SFB; hybridizing it for Trav:STTOS was sorely annoying. Realize: each box on the CA SSD represents some large tonnage... given the 111 damage boxes (excluding shields), and the CA being roughly 19000Td, it's 171 tons per box... Which makes photons and phasers 100Td bays. (and a hull box being about 40 SR.. which works out OK... 560 SR max... )

There just isn't enough detail to make it really useful.

The combat interface was using MT, so, I used the adjusted roll as the lookup. For 1D weapons, it was Int/3+Gunnery for 11+
11 =SFB roll 6 or 12
12 =SFB roll 5 or 10
13 =SFB roll 4 or 8
14 =SFB roll 3 or 6
15 =SFB roll 2 or 4
16 =SFB roll 1 or 2

We later shifted it down 2 points. Then simply moved to HG reworks.
Ph 3= 50Td TL 16 APAW bay
Ph 1= 100Td TL16 APAW bay
Phot = 100Td Nuclear Missile bay

Mind you, we often presented Bk2 combat data in an SSD-like mode

Type S:
Bridge [_]
MD ... [2]
PP ... [2]
JD ... [2]
Comp . [0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]
Qtrs . [4]
Cargo. [3]
Craft. [_]
Turret [_]
Fuel . [40][20]

 

[soloprobe]

I tried to Hybribize SFB with Traveller gave up then tried with Starfire. Gave that up too... Ended up playing Mayday with Highguard designed ships.......

 

[hdan]

Don't forget Starmada! Cheezy name, but a good game.

It's in the "Full Thrust" level of complexity, though it focuses on different things.

 

[BillDowns]

I will have to check that Starmada.

For SFB, have you ever tried squadron level battles? That's where all that detailed energy managment becomes a nightmare.

 

[aramis]

I will have to check that Starmada.

For SFB, have you ever tried squadron level battles? That's where all that detailed energy managment becomes a nightmare.

I've played full-on starbase assaults.

 

[skyth]

Surprised they didn't list Spacemaster's Star Strike there. I've actually figured out a way to use Star Strike rules with Trav ships. I'd love to run Spacemaster in the Traveller universe. No time to run a campaign though

 

[aramis]

Surprised they didn't list Spacemaster's Star Strike there. I've actually figured out a way to use Star Strike rules with Trav ships. I'd love to run Spacemaster in the Traveller universe. No time to run a campaign though

That's very doable. While I haven't, friends of mine have done so.

Other friends have used starfire as the base for ships in their TU. I don't know the exact correspondences, as I couldn't keep a character alive in Pasha's TU...

 

[iron warrior]

For rpg level starship combat, I think the system in the new "Fires of Heaven" rpg for the EABA system absolutely rules.

 

[nyrath]

Squadron Strike and Voidstriker have ship design rules that could easily accommodate Traveller starship combat.

 

[aramis]

Full Thrust, as a line, has both vehicle (in Dirtside II) and ship design rules (In FT and FB1) that are not too far off from travelleresque... but note: the Power Projection rules scale very differently than do the implied sizes from the FT line...

1 FT Mass unit is 100 Tons metric; that's about 10 Td for warships, and closer to 40T for empty freighters. Average hulls get 1 hit per 3.3 Mass (30% of mass to hull structure, and 1 hit per mass of hull structure allocation). At 1hit per 3.3 mass rate, the 1 hit per 500Td of Power Projection works out to be 1 mass per 150 Td...

And just for total obnoxiousness, 1 mass of Cargo space is "50CS"

The CS requirements for various elements are summarised below:
Class 5 vehicle (less crew) 20 CS
Class 4 vehicle “ “ 16 CS
Class 3 vehicle “ “ 12 CS
Class 2 vehicle “ “ 8 CS
Class 1 vehicle “ “ 4 CS
One man (normal accommodation) 4 CS
One man in Cryosleep 1 CS​

This meshes pretty damned well to Traveller... at 0.5Td per CS... using Double Occupancy staterooms for troops, and half-ton low-berths. It also unfortunately puts size 5 vehicles at a mere 10Td. One could argue it up to 1CS=1Td; that makes a mass 50Td and a scoutship a mere 2mass... and any hit obliterates it, including quite possibly a point defense.

Using FT as a design system for Traveller has one big drawback: their jump system comes in one size only. Assuming 1 mass = 25Td, we get a mass 4 minimum for jump...

Hull Costs
Pt MU
04 00 mass 4 hull
02 01 Weak Hull 1 hit
02 01 Jump Drive (oversized due to minimum size)
02 01 Maneuver Drive (Thrust 5 - minimum size drive)
00 01 Cargo (50CS)

Alternatively, a size 4 non-jump ship can mount (for 7 points more) a size 1 battery and a fire control...

One could easily use Traveller for running the FT universe, but note that biggest ships in the FTU are under 300 Mass... Even at 50Td/Mass, that's still well smaller than the OTU... a mere 15000Td... (Even at the implied Power Projection conversion of 1=150, it's still well under the OTU'... at 45,000Td.)

 

[whartung]

For SFB, have you ever tried squadron level battles? That's where all that detailed energy managment becomes a nightmare.

I love SFB. It's my favorite game. It's so rich, it's not a slugfest, it is not pre-determined in anyway. It's a game with luck as a factor, but not as a decider (well, very rarely). I've seen human nature played, traps laid and sprung, and "revenge served cold". It's a game of maneuver, timing, balance and an absolute game of skill.

Good players have no real issues with the energy management, as it becomes second nature. We used to routinely play with several ships a piece, and gladly blowing ourselves to itty bitty pieces. On the other hand, I've seen single turns take several hours to resolve. In one instance, it was the FIRST turn of the game, it took 4 hours, and 8 ships were destroyed -- it was glorious . Nothing but smiles and laughter, then we went home. Exactly what a game is supposed to do.

I've played every version of the game from the pocket version to the latest, save the newer fleet level game (I forget what they call it), but find the new one uninteresting as they simplified it far to much IMHO (I understand why, but they eliminated much of the richness of the system by doing so).

We had a great community, and used to ravage the local convention circuit. A guy from our group almost took Origins when it came to town, no small feat. And in that case, it literally was bad luck that did him in, even his opponent acknowledged that. But such is the game.

Worth learning, worth playing, worth learning and playing well.

Amazing game. Good times.