price point

[phydaux]

Well, I stoped by my my Friendly Local Game Store and saw a copy of 5th Edition Hero system - a nice, basic black, hardcover rule book, about 375 pages. Being a long time Champains fan, I tucked it under my arm until I was ready to leave.

When I got to the register, I almost crapped myself when I found out it was FORTY BUCKS! ($39.95 USD). And the Warhammer 40K basic rulebook from GW (not to be, but so often is, confused with GDW) that I picked up last month was $45.00! And THAT one isn't even hardcover!

Let's just say that when T20 comes out, don't DARE price it a penny LESS than $39.95 USD. If that's what the market gets, then that's what you guys should get.

 

[DrSkull]

Prices are funny things.
I went to Border's Books and looked at d20 Cthulhu. It was $40US, and I just couldn't bring myself to spend that much. There was another book I wanted for $27, but I couldn't bring myself to pay that much for this particular book either.

Then they had a "Teacher's Appreciation Weekend" where all school teachers got 25% off most anything in the store.

So I bought both books for $50. I could have afforded the $67, but $40 on one thing just seemed like a lot.

For some reason, I'm more likely to buy 3 things for $20 each than I am likely to buy 1 thing gor $30.

I don't know what this has to say about pricing T20, but $35 would not evoke the same horror as $40 in my cheapsake soul.

------------------
Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson

 

[phydaux]

yeah, but if they MSPR it at $39.95, then that means Alliance can wholesale it for $20.00 flat, which meand the publisher is getting $15.00 a copy.

If it's retailing for $35.00, then Alliance is wholesaling at ~$17.50 and the publisher is only getting ten bucks.

Just trying to look out for our boys. If they can get a steady revenue stream off the get go, then they can have more projects in the works at one time, so more great Traveller stuff to us, more revenue to them, even MORE stuff to us...

Ah, Capitalism! She is a harsh, and sometimes cruel, mistress, but she rewards her favorites sweetly!

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phydaux:
yeah, but if they MSPR it at $39.95, then that means Alliance can wholesale it for $20.00 flat, which meand the publisher is getting $15.00 a copy.

If it's retailing for $35.00, then Alliance is wholesaling at ~$17.50 and the publisher is only getting ten bucks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where are you getting your numbers from? They are not quite correct.

On a $39.95 book we would earn roughly $16 a copy. On a $34.95 book we would earn about $14 a copy.

As an aside, for those who think this sounds like a lot, remember that we have to pay for artwork, printing, writer royalties, and Marc's license % out of this

Hunter

[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 04 May 2002).]

 

[phydaux]

(snip)

Where are you getting your numbers from?

(snip)

It was a WAG, based on my sales background. I figured Alliance's taste of the pie would be small, and made up for by the volume, but I had no idea it was THAT small.

So, will the lower net per book translate into higher over-all profit via higher sales volume, or would the ever-so-slightly more net profit make up for any lost sales volume at the higher price point?

DrSkull is right about the HUGE psycologicial step the buyer has to take to go from $35.00 a book to $40.00 a book. You're probably better off at $35.00 and shooting for higher volume.

Can this all be an example in In The Black(grin)?

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phydaux:
It was a WAG, based on my sales background. I figured Alliance's taste of the pie would be small, and made up for by the volume, but I had no idea it was THAT small.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this industry the distributor usually gets a 60% discount off of list price. The distributor then sells to the retailer for around a 40% discount.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
So, will the lower net per book translate into higher over-all profit via higher sales volume, or would the ever-so-slightly more net profit make up for any lost sales volume at the higher price point?

DrSkull is right about the HUGE psycologicial step the buyer has to take to go from $35.00 a book to $40.00 a book. You're probably better off at $35.00 and shooting for higher volume.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we'd lose more than we'd gain if we raised the price to $40

Hunter


[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 05 May 2002).]

 

[MJD]

I agree with Hunter.

For once.

 

[Reginald]

For $40, you might as well make it a standalone core rulebook, complete with its own character creation and advancement rules.

Only Wizards can get away with a $40 book, either as a standalone core rulebook, or a campaign sourcebook of a popular setting.

For $35, the price is reasonable for 320+ pages sandwiched between two cardboards.

------------------
Anyhoo... just some random thoughts

 

[Smiling DM]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reginald:
For $40, you might as well make it a standalone core rulebook, complete with its own character creation and advancement rules.

Only Wizards can get away with a $40 book, either as a standalone core rulebook, or a campaign sourcebook of a popular setting.

For $35, the price is reasonable for 320+ pages sandwiched between two cardboards.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I have the cash to spend, I have a strong aversion to a $40 book, no matter the publisher.

Having said that, I did shell out $40 for the Forgotten Realms Campaign Book - and I felt I actually got my money's worth (most WOTC crap is barely worth half of what they price it - don't get me started ont he Star Wars book). The FRCS book was crammed full of useful information. Even though I had run the game for the past 12 years solid (since the Realms first came out) I found the FRCS to have all the new info I needed to run an FR D20 game. No flipping through other books to find details - it was all there.

As a parallel, if the T20 book is truly chock full of good stuff, especillay the necessary nuts and bolts to not only introduce a D20 player to Traveller, but an old CT player to D20 and aid in the transition (which the TA series should help), then perhaps $40 is a good price.

Not having been involved with the playtesting, I can't comment - but if this book is as full and solid as MHD and Hunter keep telling us, then it may be worth the higher sticker.

At the same time, a $40 book is a big investment - I was disappointed in the Hero Book and the Wheel of Time Book (both $40), largely because they were $40 - (I felt they both were worth about $25 for the content and layout - not crap, but still worth a lot less than the cover price). The Traveller die hards will pay anything. Really, we will. But the new players that we all hope to draw to the game may be a bit more discretionary.

Perhaps a strategy of pricing the core book dirt cheap and making the money on suppliments (like WOTC did and is doing) is possible. My guess is that it would only work for a big company that could front the $$$ for the Core book and wait the 12 months to start reaping profits of the later products.

My guess is you guys can't afford the "flood the market" approach with cheap system-ware to gain market share like WOTC (who learned it from Gates) and so the T20 book will be $30 minimum, probably $35. I think it will sell well, given the pricing of the other products.

BTW, what is the priocing strategy of Dragonstar? I'd say they are your true competition for Lil' Johnie's allowance money.



------------------
Never Trust a Smiling DM.

 

[phydaux]

Well, let's put it this way - the LBBs were all rules and almost no background. Players were DYING for Traveller background and backstory.

A nice hard cover book with Character gen info, rules for various stuff like combat and "doing things", plus general starship info and a BUNCH of background, backstory and other "fluff" will be VERY well recived.

I'd plunk over $40.00 US for that.

 

[Cptn. Collision Course]

Hi all, new to this board(s), so - Hello.

I agree with the idea that if the book is a complete game, i'll shell out for it.

Campaign content is always important, but I thinkg putting "the whole game" into the first release should be a priority.

p.s. you should try buying these things in non-U.S. currency (C20 = $AUD 80.00)

p.p.s Hunter, MJD and co. - nice work! Can't wait for the release.

------------------
" Control, we're switching to manual..."

 

[Reginald]

Actually, I'm more interested in the core rules for Traveller^20. After that, brief campaign setting information is okay to get the feel and mood for the entire game, but if you can squeeze more then go for it.

------------------
Anyhoo... just some random thoughts

 

[DaveShayne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cptn. Collision Course:
Hi all, new to this board(s), so - Hello.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi. Wellcome aboard.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I agree with the idea that if the book is a complete game, i'll shell out for it..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It looks like it will be as complete as any D20 game can be.



------------------
I am increasingly of the opinion that RPGs are by the nature of their creation subjective phenomenon. due to the interaction between game designers, game masters, and game players all definitions, rules, settings, and adventures are mutable in acordance with the uncertainty principle as expounded by Heisenburg. This is of course merely my point of view.

David Shayne

 

[hunter]

The main T20 book will be nothing but the rules system, no setting information.

The Gateway Setting material will follow immediately after the core book

Hunter

 

[far-trader]

And not to put too much pressure on you Hunter but that would be about when?

Your best guesstimate or personal psychic's prediction

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by far-trader:
And not to put too much pressure on you Hunter but that would be about when?

Your best guesstimate or personal psychic's prediction

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

T20 late June early July. The first half of the book went to layout and interior artwork assignment yesterday.

Setting book will follow a couple of weeks after that.

Hunter

 

[far-trader]

WHOO HOO!