price vs tech level
- Thread starter c_osborne
- Start date
I would say that the reverse is true.
+10% just to keep it simple.
+10% if not on a regular trade route.
Personally I would do it like this
1 TL=+10%
2 TL=+20%
3 TL=+40%
4 TL=+80%
5 TL=+160%
That offers an incentive for characters to stock up on high TL worlds and jump out to the frontier. Granted that a TL 10 playback machine might have trouble with a TL15 holocrystal. Well they don’t call it speculative trade for nothing.
Know your market
+10% just to keep it simple.
+10% if not on a regular trade route.
Personally I would do it like this
1 TL=+10%
2 TL=+20%
3 TL=+40%
4 TL=+80%
5 TL=+160%
That offers an incentive for characters to stock up on high TL worlds and jump out to the frontier. Granted that a TL 10 playback machine might have trouble with a TL15 holocrystal. Well they don’t call it speculative trade for nothing.
Know your market
I would tend to make it non-linear. IMTU acquiring a TL 8 tank or weapon in a TL 4 culture is going to cost you a lot more than +80%.
Maybe
1 TL +20%
2 TL +80%
3 TL +360%
4 TL +720%
5 TL +4000%
I just realized that it could make a big difference if they are paying in Imperial credits or local "credits."
Maybe
1 TL +20%
2 TL +80%
3 TL +360%
4 TL +720%
5 TL +4000%
I just realized that it could make a big difference if they are paying in Imperial credits or local "credits."
I get it but at Imperial norms there might be less of a difference.
Such price differences (+/- 300%) could have a major impact how wealth flows in the 3I. A tech 10 world and a tech 13 world would see some interesting trade patterns as goods from the TL-10 world would be nearly worthless on the TL-14 world and the TL-14 products might be prohibitively expensive.
Such price differences (+/- 300%) could have a major impact how wealth flows in the 3I. A tech 10 world and a tech 13 world would see some interesting trade patterns as goods from the TL-10 world would be nearly worthless on the TL-14 world and the TL-14 products might be prohibitively expensive.
I see what your getting at, and part of the price view I have is based on purchasing power in the local economy, thus more properly local "credits" where Imperial credits represent purchasing power in the higher TL economy.
On second thought, I need to look at the conversion of credits. That is probably a better way to simulate what I'm thinking.
Further, the exponential scale should only be for manufactured goods. Also the scale should not be flipped for price reductions, still a linear scale there and a price increase eventually to reflect lost arts (e.g., making stone knies at TL8).
Also I'll admit my example is a bit extreme, TL4 is not a spacefaring culture, TL10 is. I'm thinking my exponential example really should be tied to the absolute TL. For example, selling a TL10 hovercar to a TL5 guy (that's about WWII?) should be pricey. Something TL13 to another starfaring TL10 culture not so much.
I also tend to make colonies that might be noted as a TL8 (to reflect local large scale industrial capability) not pay such a large price jump if they are from a TL10 world and know all about the repair and care of TL10 equipment. They might have a lot of TL10 equipment in a certian area, just not enough to be TL10 overall or be able to make it.
The exponential scale does certainly skew the economy (always a good reason to ditch it). But wouldn't that be the case at least for manufactured goods? Wouldn't a world with a 3 TL edge be able to make goods far cheaper given advances in manufacturing technology, labor costs being roughly equal (maybe a pretty big if)? What do low tech worlds have to offer? Labor, natural resources, unique biologics (e.g., from their rainforests, etc.), tourism, hand-crafts made by long forgotten low-TL techniques, art, music, land, tax shelters, professional services (e.g.: accounting), black markets, etc. Local industry might be able to compete on local TL products depending on the cost of shipping, trade barriers, tariffs, etc.
Analogies might be made to the 18th and 19th century. The Europeans could much more economically produce cloth, steel knives, and glass than lower TL peoples in other parts of the world. What they wanted was spices, bauxite, gold, cheap labor, etc. I'm not saying this trade was necessarily fair and free but its gives an example of the severe disadvantage lower TL worlds might be at.
On second thought, I need to look at the conversion of credits. That is probably a better way to simulate what I'm thinking.
Further, the exponential scale should only be for manufactured goods. Also the scale should not be flipped for price reductions, still a linear scale there and a price increase eventually to reflect lost arts (e.g., making stone knies at TL8).
Also I'll admit my example is a bit extreme, TL4 is not a spacefaring culture, TL10 is. I'm thinking my exponential example really should be tied to the absolute TL. For example, selling a TL10 hovercar to a TL5 guy (that's about WWII?) should be pricey. Something TL13 to another starfaring TL10 culture not so much.
I also tend to make colonies that might be noted as a TL8 (to reflect local large scale industrial capability) not pay such a large price jump if they are from a TL10 world and know all about the repair and care of TL10 equipment. They might have a lot of TL10 equipment in a certian area, just not enough to be TL10 overall or be able to make it.
The exponential scale does certainly skew the economy (always a good reason to ditch it). But wouldn't that be the case at least for manufactured goods? Wouldn't a world with a 3 TL edge be able to make goods far cheaper given advances in manufacturing technology, labor costs being roughly equal (maybe a pretty big if)? What do low tech worlds have to offer? Labor, natural resources, unique biologics (e.g., from their rainforests, etc.), tourism, hand-crafts made by long forgotten low-TL techniques, art, music, land, tax shelters, professional services (e.g.: accounting), black markets, etc. Local industry might be able to compete on local TL products depending on the cost of shipping, trade barriers, tariffs, etc.
Analogies might be made to the 18th and 19th century. The Europeans could much more economically produce cloth, steel knives, and glass than lower TL peoples in other parts of the world. What they wanted was spices, bauxite, gold, cheap labor, etc. I'm not saying this trade was necessarily fair and free but its gives an example of the severe disadvantage lower TL worlds might be at.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I used to use the tables from CT Book 2 (speculative) Trader and Commerce for purchases. This way it meshed with the commerce system and allowed a good variation of prices below and above MSRP (book) but not ridiculously so and averaged out.
The TL effect was generally a wash. If you buy (for example) a Shotgun (intro TL5) on a TL8 world you get a nicer Shotgun for the same money. Same basic functions, just embellished. Like maybe a laser sight or a flashlight built in, or vacuum rated construction.
And generally you couldn't buy a Shotgun (or ammo for one) on a world below TL5, nor too many steps above either (3 is a nice number). So imtu a Shotgun is available at most TL5-8 worlds and not many other places, being replaced by something else.
A better example of my Classic tu replacement at TL are the laser weapons. First available as backpack powered at TL8-9, at TL13 they become integral powerpack charged.
The TL effect was generally a wash. If you buy (for example) a Shotgun (intro TL5) on a TL8 world you get a nicer Shotgun for the same money. Same basic functions, just embellished. Like maybe a laser sight or a flashlight built in, or vacuum rated construction.
And generally you couldn't buy a Shotgun (or ammo for one) on a world below TL5, nor too many steps above either (3 is a nice number). So imtu a Shotgun is available at most TL5-8 worlds and not many other places, being replaced by something else.
A better example of my Classic tu replacement at TL are the laser weapons. First available as backpack powered at TL8-9, at TL13 they become integral powerpack charged.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Oh it's also fun to throw in the "Your Imperial Credits are worthless here!" line when possible. Non-Imperial worlds of course but also most backwater worlds (i.e. Starport E). Of course the player's will only have Imperial Credits so they'll have to work out some barter or do a job for the locals to get what they need 
Nice. Dare one bring up the ability of higher TL worlds to conterfiet lower TL currency? The things I could have done with a color laser printer in 1905.Originally posted by far-trader:
Oh it's also fun to throw in the "Your Imperial Credits are worthless here!" line when possible. Non-Imperial worlds of course but also most backwater worlds (i.e. Starport E). Of course the player's will only have Imperial Credits so they'll have to work out some barter or do a job for the locals to get what they need
Lower TL worlds might demand payment in things like gold, which they can verify as geniuine and hopefully it's still rare enough to serve as a currency. (which may not be true if your mining your asteroid belts).
I like the shotgun and laser examples. And agree that the cost of a lower TL item at higher TL can stay roughly equal because of improved quality added features. But what of a higher TL world producing "trinkets" for trade with lower TL world? Is such allowed?
I also like the TL range. I use something similar I think. A first available TL, a cost effective TL, and an obselete by TL.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Remember, too, that you can import some of the hi-TL manufacturing capability to the lo-TL world and use their low labor costs. Just to throw a monkey wrench into your calcs. 
Commander Drax
SOC-12
I seem to remember reading somewhere, I think in MegaTraveller that imperial trade regulations, only allowed you to import items of 2 tech levels higher than the destination world. E.g. a tech level 9 item could be transported to a tech 7 world, whilst moving tech 10 stuff would be illegal. This was a good source of adventures, with characters being hired to break a smuggling operation of high tech arms being fed to low tech terrorists or insurgents/freedom fighters etc.
I like itOriginally posted by Fritz88:
Remember, too, that you can import some of the hi-TL manufacturing capability to the lo-TL world and use their low labor costs. Just to throw a monkey wrench into your calcs.
Nah, that was old TL11 stuff, and besides our insurance premiums would go up way too much. Better just to write it off as lost in transit."
Part of my reasoning is that there are worlds within the Imperium that are substantially lower tech level, yet have at least some contact with the outside world. It's hard to imagine they would have NO access to higher tech. I realize they wouldn't have high tech items on store shelves, but for a price, you should be able to access things like medical drug, even on a lower tech world. Somebody would be importing it, even if it wasn't legal.
Commander Drax
SOC-12
The fact that it is illeagl makes for a much more interesting adventure, in addition to mega corporate exploitation of low tech worlds. Also just because these worlds are low tech, doesn't necessarily mean that labor costs are lower. Didn't the Imperium force everyone to use the credit thus giving governments and citizens the ability to compare their purchasing power against other worlds. I can't imagine tech level 5 workers being willing to work for less than their tech level 8 neighbours doing the same work, unless some other conditions forced this. Afterall the mighty credit is a credit everywhere you go and backed by the biggest economy in recorded history, makingit exceptionally stable.
Spiderfish
SOC-12
What sort of self respecting PCs would knowingly break an arms smuggling ring? The only legitimate reason for that should be to muscle in on the action and get some of those credits...Originally posted by Commander Drax:
I seem to remember reading somewhere, I think in MegaTraveller that imperial trade regulations, only allowed you to import items of 2 tech levels higher than the destination world. E.g. a tech level 9 item could be transported to a tech 7 world, whilst moving tech 10 stuff would be illegal. This was a good source of adventures, with characters being hired to break a smuggling operation of high tech arms being fed to low tech terrorists or insurgents/freedom fighters etc.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, we have loads of RW examples of TL5 workers being paid significantly less than their TL8 neighbors (a lot closer than 1 weeks travel and a lot more visible thanks to near instantaneous visual communications!), and not having a problem with that at all! Mainly because their pay is significantly better than the TL5 shmoe down the dirt path selling ox privates as an aphrodisiac to the local rubes.
Now, if that TL8 world needs gardeners, and a Low Passage is cheap enough (or they can stow away), they won't be happy to stay at home....
I agree totally. Of course if you're a slightly crooked shipping line or starship captain, you can take a high tech consignment, change your ID & re-route to another destination, sell at a bargain to some low tech planet, & make a big profit for you. It's done frighteningly often in today's merchant marine.
Another thing to consider is that some low-tech goodies are so low tech they're priceless on some high worlds as novelty goods or objects d'art.
I played around in my Beyond campaign on currencies & their value against the Imperial credit. Considering the Third Imperium's economic clout, the Imperial credit would also have great demand & recognition among instellar trading nations.
I never found out what Aslan use as an currency.
Does anyone know? The Aslan have sizable trading market in my Beyond.
I played around in my Beyond campaign on currencies & their value against the Imperial credit. Considering the Third Imperium's economic clout, the Imperial credit would also have great demand & recognition among instellar trading nations.
I never found out what Aslan use as an currency.
Does anyone know? The Aslan have sizable trading market in my Beyond.
archhealer
SOC-12
Steak.
