• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Prior History - please help!

Yeah, one of the things I like about T20 is the fact that PC levels can be high, low, or extremely disparate within a party, and the same adventures with very little tweaking still work.

And remember, if you are playing a first level PC, a first level army grunt with a grenade still has that grenade. He may not actually hit you with it... but then, he doesn't have to, does he?
 
One disadvantage of high-level characters is that their stats tend to be longer, especially if they multi-class. You have longer lists of skills and feats, etc. Also they take longer to create if your doing prior history.

By the time one player finishes his 1st-level character and says he's ready to play, he must wait for his fellow player who wants a 50-year old 14th level character, and he rolls for enlistment, sees what he musters out, whether he surived, his cash benefits, adjusting his ability scores upward as he advances in level and then modifying all his skills, attack bonuses, saving throws etc, each time he rolls up another term in service, advances in age, accumulates experience points and then advances in level multiple times. The player with the 1st level character simply taps his fingers, decides to watch a little television while he waits. Meanwhile the GM is helping the other player advance his character multiple levels, and now its the next players turn, he has a few questions, so the second player goes upstairs to join the first in watching the movie.

Finally its sometime later and all 4 characters are finally complete, a 1st level, a 14th level, a 7th level/6th level multiclass something, and finally an 8th level character. All the characters are complete, the GM gives each character sheet a final look over, and then announces that the group is ready to begin play. The manage to wake up one of the players who fell asleep watching a late night movie, he looks around bleary-eyed, notices his watch and announces that he must be getting home as he has to get up the next day, then the group starts dickering about when to have the next session so they can actually begin play, each one consults his calandar and they agree to another session two weeks from now.

The GM bids good night to all his players as the leave, and then he looks at the player character sheets, checks out their stats, and then starts trying to figure out what sort of NPCs he'll need for the adventure he has in mind. He starts rolling up characters going through prior history rolls, adding levels, increasing abilities, trying to decide which skills and feats to pick and he completes one character, then another, then another, and then another, taking about four times as long to create 4 npcs and the players took to create their PCs as their is only one GM to do all this work. The GM works late into the night, then the next day he works some more, brings his notes to work with him with a ton of books and dice and works some more during lunch, his coworkers look at him strangely, then late at night he does some more work on Mid level NPCs. The GM works night after night fillinf a notebook with several pages worth of NPCs, all mid-level, his wife is wondering what the hell he's doing etc.

Finally the day arrives for the next game session, the GM sits behind a pile of notes with multiple mid-level NPC stat sheets, then the first combat begins. DM frantically loos through the stats of each NPC decides what they are going to do, then a PC blow one of them away, then another. An NPC kills a PC. The player characters win the day, defeating the NPCs, but one of the PCs is down. Aw shucks, now the PC has to roll another 14th level character, the other players go upstairs to watch another movie while the player who lost his character rolls up another one with prior history and everything.
 
To be fair Laryssa that same thing happens all the time in D&D too even when you have everyone creating 1st level characters, it's every bit as complex as T20 and much more complex than CT. In fact I'd expect it to happen less in Traveller for a lot of reasons.

An even worse scenario develops in D&D when the first actual battle starts and the 1st level mage of the party casts the only spell they have for the whole day. Then they sit there being bored out of their skull while the fighters stand toe to toe with the enemy for a half hour or more rolling umpteen dice to finally wear down the enemy hit points through melee rounds that drag on and on.

And after that he tags along for the rest of the adventure day, through uncounted more encounters where the mage dare not get near combat for fear of being killed by measly dagger slash or sneeze from some ogre.

And then it comes time to award xps and divide the treasure and everybody else is "Well what did the mage do?" "All the mage did was cast one spell and then hid behind the fighter's kilts the rest of the adventure." "The mage shouldn't get full xps or a full treasure share."

The way D&D is the only mage adventuring should be mid to high level and giving the orders to the stupid 1st level fighters, and if they don't like it or their share of treasure then maybe they'd like to be turned into an ass or some other beast of burden by the powerful mage.

Give me Traveller any day of the week and in any version of the rules over any version of D&D. I can't count how many times when playing D&D I had to roll a new character because the 1st level character I had was unlucky enough to not roll that first hit on the giant rat while the giant rat rolls a natural 20 and kills my character with a single bite because I rolled bad hit points on that first die.
 
The other solution to this is to have oneo f the players know the character gen. system well enough, and your universe well enough, to assist a new player or replacement chargen... I do that all the time. They occasionally shoot me a couple of questions, like homeworld and stuff, but I just give them quick answers and it doesn't interfere with the game too much.
 
I fully intend to generate my players' characters (and the pregenerated archaeological team** I'm going to have them play in order to introduce them to the concept of "T20 Is Far Deadlier than D&D") outside of the regular session. I expect it to take a fair amount of time, both with me-as-GM and afterward when the player takes it home and mulls over what he/she rolled and builds a character background.

I want living, breathing characters with histories, loves found and lost, fortunes won and lost-for-most-careers, etc.

Now, this is a whole lot of work, and it's entirely possible that in the very first session of the game one or more of them might die. I can't control what my players will do, after all, and they might pick a gunfight in the starport and bring down local troops armed with heavy weapons. And after that, they might not all surrender... And that will terminate some of their worthless existences, right then and there.

And then we'll be faced with one or more players with time on their hands. Unfortunate? Yes, it would be - given how little time I have to run my games, it might even be nearing catastrophic proportions.

But the archeological adventure, if I've done my job right, should inform the players that I didn't just say that T20 is deadly, I demonstrated it. If they wanna die under the barrels of a few LAGs or laser rifles, I can't really stop 'em, in the end.

**The archeological team is discussed in my June 14 post in the How Deadly Is T20? thread.
 
I think one of the biggest problems here is that people are confusing class with terms of service. You enter your chosen service, perform the term and do your survival/promotion rolls, etc., then spend the exp to gain levels of your chosen class.

One of my characters started out with the plan to be an academic and had his first term as an academic. After successful completetion, he entered college for a official degree in Ancient Archeology. He also entered the Naval ROTC and when he finished college, he spent the next term as a Naval ensign and was promoted. He would spend the next 4 terms Navy, Academia, Academia, Navy and because it rolled a 8th term, Navy again.

In many ways, this actually followed a similar career track of some of the army personnel I've known over the years, although many of them attend college and/or graduate school as actual serving officers but we don't have this ability in PH. I am thinking of creating a Military Academy to allow both time in the military and education but it is too much work.

I've also allowed people to work on their terms, then spend their experience, skills, etc., on the appropriate levels, etc.. Because terms and class levels do not always work out mathmatically perfect, especially at higher levels, you did not have to spend all the experience you earned in a term on strictly that service class. So if you had a few thousand extra exp and wanted to spend your next term as something else, you just added that term's experience up and if you leveled, you level as your new class.
Nor do I also require that all exp earned in a say, a naval term, be spent in the navy
 
Hi Laryssa,
here are a few thoughts on your last post.

One disadvantage of high-level characters is that their stats tend to be longer, especially if they multi-class. You have longer lists of skills and feats, etc. Also they take longer to create if your doing prior history.

I really don’t look at that as being a disadvantage. Multiclass characters tend to be a trade off. While they have a greater verity of skills they are also less proficient. You can do 1 thing well, or do many things so-so. I personally never liked multiclass characters, but I must admit I like the way T20 handles them in prior history.

By the time one player finishes his 1st-level character and says he's ready to play, he must wait for his fellow player who wants a 50-year old 14th level character, and he rolls for enlistment, sees what he musters out, whether he surived, his cash benefits, adjusting his ability scores upward as he advances in level and then modifying all his skills, attack bonuses, saving throws etc, each time he rolls up another term in service, advances in age, accumulates experience points and then advances in level multiple times. The player with the 1st level character simply taps his fingers, decides to watch a little television while he waits. Meanwhile the GM is helping the other player advance his character multiple levels, and now its the next players turn, he has a few questions, so the second player goes upstairs to join the first in watching the movie.

Finally its sometime later and all 4 characters are finally complete, a 1st level, a 14th level, a 7th level/6th level multiclass something, and finally an 8th level character. All the characters are complete, the GM gives each character sheet a final look over, and then announces that the group is ready to begin play. The manage to wake up one of the players who fell asleep watching a late night movie, he looks around bleary-eyed, notices his watch and announces that he must be getting home as he has to get up the next day, then the group starts dickering about when to have the next session so they can actually begin play, each one consults his calandar and they agree to another session two weeks from now.


Yes, character creation is very involved. Which is why, when I started up my campaign, I had a character generation session, a night solely devoted to making characters and going over the T20 system with the players. It worked out great and each player started out with a good understanding of the game.

As for a player who wants a first level character, I would advise against it, given the T20 system. Although it is allowable, the game is designed to give players an experienced character. A first level character will have very little going for him vis-à-vis skills feats and abilities. I cannot image such a character being much fun to play. They would just be sitting on the sidelines while the more experienced characters role the skill checks and have all the successful attacks in combat. Just going through 1 term of service will likely produce a third level character. It is how the game is designed. A first level character is just as unbalanced as a 20th level.


The GM bids good night to all his players as the leave, and then he looks at the player character sheets, checks out their stats, and then starts trying to figure out what sort of NPCs he'll need for the adventure he has in mind. He starts rolling up characters going through prior history rolls, adding levels, increasing abilities, trying to decide which skills and feats to pick and he completes one character, then another, then another, and then another, taking about four times as long to create 4 npcs and the players took to create their PCs as their is only one GM to do all this work. The GM works late into the night, then the next day he works some more, brings his notes to work with him with a ton of books and dice and works some more during lunch, his coworkers look at him strangely, then late at night he does some more work on Mid level NPCs. The GM works night after night fillinf a notebook with several pages worth of NPCs, all mid-level, his wife is wondering what the hell he's doing etc.

I am assuming that you are perhaps new to being a game master. I don’t mean that to sound negative, but most experienced GM’s would not spend a great deal of time creating NPC’s according to the rules. I have two words for you. Arbitrary and Generic. Make up a few templates for various NPC Types. Don’t roll anything just decide it. The common thug, the streetwise rouge, the cop or the platoon sergeant. A whole rouges gallery can be drawn up in a couple of hours. Then there are what I like to call name brand villains. These are the special NPC’s that will become your player’s nemeses. These will take a little more time and care to put together than his underlings, and you may want to generate these according to the rules, but even here do not be afraid o be arbitrary. If you want to create a 15th lvl academic with a BAB of 15 go ahead. If the players complain tell them the rules are for player character generation, NPC’s can be whatever you decide.

Finally the day arrives for the next game session, the GM sits behind a pile of notes with multiple mid-level NPC stat sheets, then the first combat begins. DM frantically loos through the stats of each NPC decides what they are going to do, then a PC blow one of them away, then another. An NPC kills a PC. The player characters win the day, defeating the NPCs, but one of the PCs is down. Aw shucks, now the PC has to roll another 14th level character, the other players go upstairs to watch another movie while the player who lost his character rolls up another one with prior history and everything.

This would be a fine time for the generic thugs to appear. If they get in a street fight with 6 identical thugs what does it matter.

As for PC death, that should always loom in the back ground. In its stock form T20 is deadly. Players should be aware of that, if not they will soon learn that harsh fact. Some solutions are to have backup characters pre-generated. Have a character generation session mentioned above and have the players created a 2nd or 3rd character. Another alternative it to tone down the game. I have instituted a couple of rules to make T20 less deadly, but that is the style of play my players and I like. It may not be a solution for everybody.

Although others may disagree, I feel the main job of the game master is to move the game along in an entertaining fashion. It is group storytelling after all. There is no law that states a GM can’t pull punches. Although PC death should happen I think it should be a rare occurrence, either a reward for a really stupid maneuver or as a key plot point. It should have some meaning.

Jim
 
Dark Sun was the AD&D world that was so deadly, you both started at 3rd level and had several backup characters on the "character tree," that were approximately the same level as your character. They'd go up levels approximately on the same schedule as your main character, and it was assumed they were off adventuring and honing their stills at the same time.

This created a pool of PCs for a player to draw upon, which was also handy if your player who had the thief wasn't available and you needed another thief.

But.

Some players - and I am one - can have multiple characters and devote mental effort to character development on all of them. I certainly can't do as good a job on four characters' development as I would if I had only one, but I'd say I can give each one 90%. (I'd better have this skill - I'm both a DM and an author, and I don't have the luxury of developing one character at a time.)

But many players only want to develop one character at a time. Several of my current players, when I asked them if they wanted to have a backup character in the current campaign, stated flatly that if they generated a new character, they'd probably lose interest in the current one.

And I could see that happening in T20, especially for a min-maxer. If character B rolls better for stats and/or Prior History than characters A and C, the min-maxer will be tempted to have character A take chances until he dies and character B can be brought into play.

Add into that the fact that generating alternates is a time-consuming process, and I don't think that's terribly feasible in most cases.

I just don't plan on killin' too many PCs because it'll detract from the session time. Will it happen? Probably. I'll shoot for killin' 'em in the last hour or so of the session, if possible...
file_23.gif
 
Its a fine balance. You don't want to kill PCs because then you have to replace them. It is easy not to kill PCs, it is a T20 game after all. One possible option:

Open up the D&D Monster Manual, and have 50 orcs attack the PCs equipped as the Monster Manual entry says they are equipped. The PCs then raise their laser rifles, snub pistols, and plasma weapons and shoot them down. Lets say there are 4 PCs vs 50 orcs equipped as per D&D. Do you suppose the orcs will manage to kill a PC if enough arrows, axes and spears fly through the air? I'm sure the PCs will manage to cut down a goodly number of them. Then the DM consults the treasure tables in the DMs guide, and rolls the treasure according to the calculated Encounter level of this encounter. A goodly number of gold coins and gems come up, as well as a magical item or two, but this being Traveller, they aren't really magical, they are either fake props or something else. Typically gold is measures in Troy ounces which are 12.5 to a pound, gold is worth about $750 and a credit is worth $3 so the GM comes up with an amount of Cr250 per troy ounce of gold or about Cr3125 for a pound of gold, since their are 50 coins to a pound, that means that each gold coin is worth Cr62.5. The number of coins found in the Orcs treasure pile is a sizable amount of change, not enough to buy a starship with, but then nothing to sneeze at either.

After a while the PCs might wonder why they continually enounter primitive bands of poorly equipped orcs, and how they managed to accumulate all that treasure being as poorly equipped as they are.

Later on they may enounter opponents with more futuristic weapons, but then that raises the probability that one of the PCs will be killed. There are of course wild animals, most animals don't have ranged weapons however, so they must be really tough in order to survive being shot at multiple times before they come within melee range of the PCs, or they must be sneaky and able to sneak up on the PCs before they realize they are there.
 
I am not sure what you are on about. Striking a balance is a big part of being a GM. I am not reccomending never killing a PC. The game should be challenging, but if PC's died every session I'm sure your players would lose interest just as surely as if every encounter was a cake walk.

Not every session should be about a combat encounter. The intoductory session of my T20 game involved exploring an alien base. Pressure was applied to the PC's becuse they were stranded on a planet with no means of escape in a area with a super volcano about to blow. They had explore the base and figure out how to use the interplanetary teleporation devive before the eruption. No shots were fired, infact there were no encounters of any kind in the base, yet it was a tense situation and the players had a good time.

Jim
 
Setting aside the issue of orcs and D&D treasure tables, let's instead give the example of 50 alien tribesmen attacking the PCs while they're away from the ship.

(If they're in/near the ship, it's a non-starter because the starship hull renders the tribesmen completely harmless. Minus 10 dice of damage (no minimum, remember, for this modifier) is hard to overcome with hand weapons...)

But let's assume the PCs are out gathering specimens in their open-top landrover and the aliens attack.

The PCs were expecting trouble from these tribesmen, so they're armored in cloth armor (AR=6) and well armed. The landrover is a non-military model and it's broken down for some non-combat-related reason.

The tribesmen are armored in chainmail (armor bonus +5, AR=2), armed with broadswords (2d6/19-20) and longbows (1d8/x2), the best weapons of their tech level (2).

First off, the longbows have a range increment of 30 meters (let's ignore the -1 die per range increment reduction, since that renders a bow useless beyond ~100 feet, which they aren't), and let's assume the combat begins with at 60 meters across open terrain toward the PCs. The aliens' move rate in chainmail is 6 meters, so they can either advance 6 meters and fire or 24 meters and not fire AND lose their Dex bonuses to AC.

(Let's also ignore cover for this encounter.)

Combat begins at 60 m, and the aliens advance 6 m to avoid the 2nd range increment and fire their bows. Whoosh! 50 arrows fly into the sky, each at -2 to hit and -6 damage (armor rating of the cloth armor). Five PCs, each attacked in their cloth armor, each with 14 Dexterities for simplicity's sake.

Their AC is 18, and the tribesmen are 1-level warriors, so they have +1 BAB, +2 for their own 14 Dex's, and -2 for range. One arrow in 5 hits, so the PCs take an average of 9 Stamina and maybe 1 point of Lifeblood.

The PCs have several different TL12+ weapons, including two gauss rifles, which they fire in suppressive fire mode at maximum RoF (10). The enemies have an AC of 17, -4 for suppresive fire, but the PCs went through Prior History and are ~9-level with +6 BABs. The PCs need 13's to hit up to 5 targets each, and each target will take +1d damage, or 3d12. On the average, 4 targets get hit, each taking 3d12 Stamina (knocking them out) and 1d12, the highest die, straight to Lifeblood.

The other three are armed with laser rifles and need 9's to hit for their first attacks and 14's for their second ones, so let's say three of them hit, dropping 3 more targets.

The range is now 54 meters and the aliens realize they'll never reach the humans in time, so get out their broadswords, issue an inhuman chilling battle cry, and charge 24 meters ahead (x4 run).

This time, the autofire from the gauss rifles is more effective, since the enemy has no Dex bonus, so they cut down 5 more and the laser riflemen drop 4 more. The enemy is now at 30 meters and there are 16 of them down, 34 still up.

They charge again, closing to 6 meters. They're now in Point Blank range, and the two gauss riflemen have Point Blank Shot, so this time they drop 6 aliens and the lasers drop 4 more. 26 aliens are down, 24 remain, and the PCs are hardly hurt.

But now the aliens are in range of their broadswords and suppresing fire might be dangerous, but there's a lot more badguys than goodguys, so it might be pretty safe. We'll see how those broadswords do, first.

The 24 aliens divide their attacks (just for space's sake) evenly amongst the 5 PCs, so an average of 5 attack each one. They need 15's to hit (Str bonus +2) and do 2d6+2 Stamina and 1d6 (the highest of 2) -3 Lifeblood each hit.

Each PC is hit by 1.5 aliens, so on average they take 3d6+3 Stamina and 1 or 2 points of Lifeblood. Now it's getting somewhat serious.

Setting aside ammunition (the gauss rifles should be reloading now), the gauss riflemen fire suppressing fire into the melee. With 24 aliens and 4 allies, it's a pretty good bet. 10 eligible shots means, on the average, one ally gets hit (sorry, Bob) between the two, but they'll take 3d12 Stamina and 1d12 (the highest) - 4 Lifeblood IF they're actually hit by the round (50/50 there). Bad, but not terrible.

On the other hand, 9 more aliens go down, dropping it to 15 aliens. Most aliens would have run away by now, but these aliens aren't too bright, so it continues.

3 aliens per person, each needing 15s, so 1 alien hits each person, doing 2d6+2 Stamina and again 1 or 2 Lifeblood. The Lifeblood isn't too life-threatening yet, but the Stamina's adding up. 9 from the first arrow volley plus 18 from the first broadsword attack and 9 from the second is 36 Stamina damage.

The gauss riflemen stop firing suppressive fire and go to +1d bursts. Each will get two shots (+6 BAB and +1 BAB) and drop 1.5 aliens, so three go down, and another four to laser fire. That drops the aliens to 8, and the aliens are pretty much finished. They might drop one or two PCs from Stamina damage, but they cannot kill them, and they're going down next round with one or two stragglers possibly.

The situation would have been a lot grimmer without automatic weapons, a GM that was ignoring critical hits and ammunition, and range. The same bunch of aliens at point blank range would have a much higher chance of success.

On the other hand, if the vehicle had an LMG mounted on it, with its 20-round suppressive fire hitting up to 10 targets for <DEAD> damage, it would have been different, too.

Bottom line? Stamina damage is an issue when being attacked by numerous low-powered badguys, and it'll drop you long before Lifeblood does.

Now, give the badguys TL5 or TL6 weapons, and 50 of them kill the PCs pretty much every time... SMGs firing 4/bursts for damage... dead, dead, dead...
 
Back
Top