Pretty sure lightsabers are energy weapons re law level, if not bar signage.
OTOH, pretty sure that starport was LL0 so all good.
Proof of idenity in the OTU?
- Thread starter strycat
- Start date
OTOH, pretty sure that starport was LL0 so all good.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
You don't have to necessarily outrun it, only outdate it. You go to some planet and your data there is ten years out-of-date and doesn't include several warrants for your arrest, a couple of bankruptcies, and all the other nefarious stuff you've done in that period. The local officials think you're clean.
After all, you are just one of literally billions upon billions of records that would exist. On lower tech worlds they might not even have the means to store such records. There, they might only parse them to include the worst of the worst and those who are seriously connected to power. Everybody else gets a pass. Government having to update literally what would be trillions of records on individuals would be fraught with errors, omissions, and useless entries that clog the system.
Again, it argues that you are who you say you are, and your actions locally are what count. If you go from system to system causing problems and getting in trouble with the law, the high-tech equivalent of old West wanted posters are out on you everywhere. If on the other hand, you aren't causing such problems, the locals really don't care who you are other than that you behave while on their planet.
Who you are, and what you've done, are two separate things.
Ostensibly, if you rob a bank in the US, and flee the country to, say, Europe, the US "knows" you left (they see your passport leave), and the Europeans "know" you've arrived (they have your visa, or whatever). The fact that you're "wanted" is a different thing, and this is where the "long arm of the law" organically hunts you down.
The US puts out a warrant for you, that's broadcast out in its own sweet time, and gets entered into the assorted systems. As you continue to move throughout Europe and have occasional contact with the State (border crossings, paying taxes, pulled over for a traffic violation), eventually, the warrant will rear its ugly head, and you're on a plane back.
You can always go to some other place, a place where the US has less influence, a place that does not have an extradition treaty, etc.
But the fundamentals are that with your ID, you leave behind breadcrumbs of data that, should some REALLY want to find you, they can follow and make a more aggressive pursuit.
I think it’s probably closer to the state of things in the late 19th century (given the lack of communication)
If you leave a planet yes the planetary authority (and perhaps even the imperium) knows you’ve left (maybe) but when you arrive at your destination you could be anyone with any documentation - with no way to verify (modern passports are verified almost instantaneously as being real or fake).
I imagine the star ports of entry of the third imperium (and basically all star ports for the independent polities) to be closer to Elis Island in 1880s-1910s rather than a modern airport. Especially if the immigration officer has to “take you as you are”
If a political dissident, murderer, terrorist, etc flees the 3I to a border planet (presumably a nice one, like a garden world or high tech area) they’re probably going to get away scot free (and vice versa).
Within the 3I it’s probably harder to just vanish but as others have said - if I run to a low TL world with a class E star port I can probably create a new life there without issue (probably before travelling on again in a year or two under my new name)
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
If you flee to a country without an extradition treaty, they likely don't care you robbed a bank in the US so long as you don't rob one in their country and pay your bills. There are real life examples of this from history.
In terms of Traveller, those breadcrumbs are cast in a proverbial bread factory. That is, there are so many others scattered everywhere it's impossible to find one out of the pile. It becomes a variant of the Sorites Paradox. At what point can you find the one grain of sand in a heap of sand you are looking for? Sure, there are sorting algorithms but it's likely no government has the time, money, manpower, or desire to try and find every violator of something unless possibly you end up on some law level H planet where they not only care if you jaywalked, but are going to imprison you for having done so.
Aside from that, the starport system Traveller has pretty much allows one to evade the authorities simply by being ship's crew and never leaving the starport. That's something IMTU that changes. Starports do care, but only to the extent of what you do locally. They're too busy with other more pressing matters to be looking for every miscreant that might be fleeing the authorities.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
More importantly, if your next say 5 stops are all on low tech, starport C or lower worlds, with small populations, there's probably little or no customs or immigration checks occurring. Why would there be? Maybe the local immigration officer sees you wave a passport or ID card at him and sleepily waves you past, he asks, "Anything to declare?" and you plop a bottle of high-end liquor on the counter and continue walking, to which he says, "Welcome to planet Backwater. Enjoy your stay..."
Now, after say, 8 to 10 months of being off the radar, you show up somewhere with a new passport and ID in another name that were officially issued somewhere like that. What do the authorities at the high end class A starport do? Let's say you've changed your appearance quite a bit. You match the official documents you're carrying. Are they credible and do you get a pass?
That's why I say it's about who you say you are, how you present yourself, and the actions you take locally.
casquilho
SOC-13
A feature of Traveller has always been the limited speed of communications of any kind. Even with the Traveller version of the pony express (X Boats) you still do not have even close to instant communication. While I don't think it is super easy to evade bounty hunters forever, it would not be hard to do so for short periods of time all depending on how much portable money you have. 
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Artificial intelligence and really large databases.
coliver988
SOC-14 1K
While true now, this was not true of the Classic Traveller idea of computers. My issue with ID is what a lot of this thread as argued: space is really, really large, communication is really, really slow (okay, FTL but we are talking weeks or months). and a wide variety of technological levels that may or may not support various ID protocols. Which really goes to Enoki's "it's about who you say you are, how you present yourself, and the actions you take locally"
I will add that in MTU, any class D or above port maintained by the Imperium does track transponders and the SPA tacks on a lot of data that all ships carry and post forward. While that is mostly ship listings, I've not ruled out other things the Imperium may want to be transmitted. I.e., your transponder is not only tracking your ship with its ID and all that, but also all the other ships that have stopped at the starport. Insurance companies pay a lot as this helps with "lost" ships. It does not (except by special warrant) track passengers or cargo, but it does give a pretty detailed ship traffic map of SPA controlled ports. I've never really worked out all the details, but it allows MTU to better able to track legal ships at least. Spoofing transponders and all that are of course, always a possibility. One with a heft penalty if you get caught.
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Marcatlas
SOC-12
Wrong. Your data is constantly sent out on the comm network. It is NEVER 10 years out of date unless the planet in question is 10 years travel time from where the data originated. Which means unless you are traveling faster than the X-boat N/W you are not on the planet where the data is 10 years out of date. Why do you think the X-boat N/W exists?
That only applies within the 3I which has an Xboat network (some other polities will have something similar). I seem to recall that Enoki is using a setting way outside the 3I.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Worlds not on the network may have a timelag of a couple of months at best. if you have a jump 5 or better ship you can outpace the information wave. Note that since the xboat network is not optimised it doesn't operate at jump 4 on average, so a jump 3 or 4 ship may allow you to stay ahead.
Seems like it’s a step to claim that the data of every citizen, even if it’s just every person travelling the spacelanes, is constantly being circulated and stored.
That’s an immense amount to data to constantly be transporting on xboats. Surely the 3rd Imperium has more important data (trade and taxation data) to send around rather than the warrants of some dude who allegedly offed someone.
Dude kills someone important to the 3I or messes with trade I can see them putting out a description along the spaceways but I honestly don’t see them caring enough about planetary level criminals to waste the resources
Marcatlas
SOC-12
Which is the framework we are talking about.
Marcatlas
SOC-12
ALL criminal information of people not in custody and CERTAINLY extant wants and warrants data will be broadcast.
Maybe that is why there is a secret J6 network for all of the important stuff, and standard communication traffic has lagged at J4 (or less due to inefficiency of route) for 400 years. The X-Boat network was established in the mid-600's (TL13/J4 max). The Imperium achieved TL14/J5 max by 700.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Wrong.
The comm network is not transmitting continuously/constantly, as you assert.
It's transmitting in "discrete packets" via jump, which has both lag AND latency factors going on.
You don't have a "steady stream" of communications (like water flowing out of a hose) at a continuous rate of flow making a fountain of information.
What you have is more of a "bucket brigade" going on (or if you prefer, a pony express).
The Express Network is like an "experienced crew" doing the "bucket brigade" thing on a professional basis ... but "drinking from the fire hose" it is not.
Communications away from the Express Network via X-Mail is still stuck with doing the "bucket brigade" routine (via jump) ... but it's done on an ad hoc basis by amateur volunteers (merchant ships) when it isn't being handled via routine visits "every so often" by a Scout/Courier. The "buckets" still move, but not as quickly and not as often (or as far) as they do on the Express Network.
Updates can be sent out, but there is lag AND latency involved with ALL interstellar communications, including via the Express Network ... it's just that the Express Network has less lag and latency factors involved in it, rather than no lag or latency at all.
@Marcatlas Just so I understand. IYTU:
- planetary government issues "arrest warrants" for local thugs who might be offworld
- it goes out throughout the Xboat network
- it is common (or not uncommon) for planets to have agreements to arrest/handover/extradite these wanted persons if they arrive at their starport?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
There are two primary reasons why within the Imperium universal identity profiles would be widespread:
1. Security
2. Social Standing - if you have a characteristic with concrete effects that can leverage who you are, then everyone else would need to know definitively who you are
1. Security
2. Social Standing - if you have a characteristic with concrete effects that can leverage who you are, then everyone else would need to know definitively who you are
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