that was way back in the 80s when GDW published the JTAS, and the mailing wrappers had fun things on them. Also available in the forms book, supplement 12
Proof of idenity in the OTU?
- Thread starter strycat
- Start date
From T4 Core Rules, p. 66 (~ I.Y 000 / Setting Max TL12):
Marcatlas
SOC-12
So, when a gov't creates an ID for a citizen (most likely when that person is 18) and sends that data out to all the systems, that citizen is traveling faster than that network? Please explain how that is.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
This is exactly how I run it. It makes the most sense.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
It takes weeks for that information to travel one jump to another system, however far that single jump is, using an X-boat. When that information arrives in that system, it has to be transferred to the local government's means of storage. That too isn't instantaneous. Then, it gets copied and sent to other systems nearby not on the X-boat route. Those systems copy and send it on.
Then, it periodically requires updating. How often does that occur, daily, weekly, yearly? Thus, any single system's current data could be out of date by up to years depending on how this system updates. What one system has is likely not what another has.
Compounding all that, each system--assuming the person moves around like a space faring crew member might--adds their own information about this person to the system that gets added. Throw in bureaucratic errors, and then on some law level H planet somewhere this happens:
Well, in the US, normally, it also takes weeks to get a passport. (Yes, there's an expedited path.)
Part of that "weeks" can be letting the data have a "head start".
Systems that aren't part of the X-Boat network are still part of some mail network, whether it's a formal courier routinely coming, or tossing a thumb drive to a passing trader.
"Can't stop the signal, Mal!"
The simple truth is, if "this is a problem", then they work a solution to work out the problem. Holding the ID until the data has had a chance to propagate can be A solution to that problem.
Also, as long as the ID is authentic, which can be verified (this has to exist otherwise its all moot), then simply handing over the passport propagates the data. When you go through customs, cha-ching, the ID is uploaded into the local "instantaneous" network.
Going back to my contrived example, all that's really necessary to propagate is the signing key that's used to authenticate the IDs. If systems are diligent in sending out the "new" key a couple of months before they use it, there's no problem at all. You're back to the previous scenario. Customs sees your ID, verifies it's signed by the official key they already have, import you into the system, and away you go.
"We see you're new here. Here's a temporary ID you may need for the next couple of days. System usually catches up in a few hours, but just in case." The temp id is signed by a local authority and bound to your ID.
If you're found on planet and NOT in the network? Well, then there's trouble. You can have that window "Well I should be in the system, I just came in yesterday, and, gee, where is that temp ID...shucks, must have lost it." "That's no problem sir, we'll simply incarcerate you until the ID clears the system. The food isn't half bad. Come with us, please!"
But see, for an "important" transaction, "well, sorry, we'll just have to wait for that then sir." "What, you won't let me draw out 1MCr from my account with just my still-hot-off-the-presses passport?" "No sir, come back in a couple of days."
Marcatlas
SOC-12
You still haven't explained how when your ID info is sent out when you are 18 you are subsequently outrunning that data when you travel . Your explanation doesn't hold water. By the time 99.999% of the population goes on an interstellar jaunt the data will have had a minimum of many months and almost always, YEARS to disseminate.
MThompson016
SOC-12
1. It's only really issued to people who need it. Interstellar travellers, employees of the Imperium, and others who need it. The vast majority of people never get an Imperial ID. It's just not required.
2. There's anti-forgery and authentication built into an Imperial ID. I don't have the background to specify, but it can be checked with routine items at any imperial connected starport. It can say "I'm an authentic Imperial ID" to a customs agent, who may or may not be inclined to check against a list. I see an Imperial ID as smart card/book with electronics built in.
3. Backwater locations can issue a temporary Imperial ID that can be used to get a higher tech one. If a traveller uses one too long, the Authorities like to use them for testing every sort of search technique, behooving the person to get a proper one.
2. There's anti-forgery and authentication built into an Imperial ID. I don't have the background to specify, but it can be checked with routine items at any imperial connected starport. It can say "I'm an authentic Imperial ID" to a customs agent, who may or may not be inclined to check against a list. I see an Imperial ID as smart card/book with electronics built in.
3. Backwater locations can issue a temporary Imperial ID that can be used to get a higher tech one. If a traveller uses one too long, the Authorities like to use them for testing every sort of search technique, behooving the person to get a proper one.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Marcatlas
SOC-12
In a new personal MFA product I recently help launch the token won't function if the person it is attuned to isn't the one wearing it. So you present it as ID and it tells the authenticating H/W that you are an imposter.
Do not let yourself get onto a position where you need to speed-run the passport office. It almost never works.
Almost.
(I got really lucky that one time, with an assist from Mrs. Moped's people skills and some very efficient civil servants.)
The expedited path isn't cheap, and the really-expedited version typically requires a dead relative for justification.
Still, the process was a lot simpler than I expected it to be, if one already has the necessary documents. I imagine that there might be issues if you're starting without some of them.
There’s been talk about proof of ID within the imperial system but what about outside?
If I’m from one of the client states in the Reavers Deep or from an independent world in the Trojan Reach how does my ID work? If I’m an imperial traveling to those worlds do I need a local ID?
In my drinax campaign I like to play up the difference between the IDs issued by the Great Powers, Minor Powers and barely rans.
The players with Imperial ID tend to have less trouble with customs and tend to be approached more by the less politically aware to solve their problems. (Neobarb militia wants their pirate hunter trained, City Mayor invites them to dinner to prove to the peasants how cosmopolitan he is etc etc.) Outside the major routes Imperials are minor celebrities and are assumed to all be rich, powerfully connected and understand high technology.
The players from Drinax (both nobles) tend to do more of the local politics and the politically aware (who don’t want either great power fiddling in their pie) tend to see them as problem solvers but are seen as more mundane by the average peasant or minor official.
I have ID as both a card that has a universal reader that imperial star ports (and a good number outside the imperium) have but they also have a paper/card/spacepaper version that just has the standard profile.
When the players go into the Heirate it all gets confusing as they tend to need new ID every time they go to a new clan territory, the ease of acquisition being wildly varying
If I’m from one of the client states in the Reavers Deep or from an independent world in the Trojan Reach how does my ID work? If I’m an imperial traveling to those worlds do I need a local ID?
In my drinax campaign I like to play up the difference between the IDs issued by the Great Powers, Minor Powers and barely rans.
The players with Imperial ID tend to have less trouble with customs and tend to be approached more by the less politically aware to solve their problems. (Neobarb militia wants their pirate hunter trained, City Mayor invites them to dinner to prove to the peasants how cosmopolitan he is etc etc.) Outside the major routes Imperials are minor celebrities and are assumed to all be rich, powerfully connected and understand high technology.
The players from Drinax (both nobles) tend to do more of the local politics and the politically aware (who don’t want either great power fiddling in their pie) tend to see them as problem solvers but are seen as more mundane by the average peasant or minor official.
I have ID as both a card that has a universal reader that imperial star ports (and a good number outside the imperium) have but they also have a paper/card/spacepaper version that just has the standard profile.
When the players go into the Heirate it all gets confusing as they tend to need new ID every time they go to a new clan territory, the ease of acquisition being wildly varying
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
You will if you want to do anything of note.
If a polity can't vet your ID, and you're "just who you say you are", IF they let you in at all, they'll give you some temporary ID. A visa or something that says not only who they think you are, but that you actually have permission to be there.
Obviously the more "frontier" the place is, perhaps, the looser this system would be. Show up unannounced at one of the core worlds, and they'll likely just show you the door back the way you came from.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Yeah so how do they verify?
Let’s say I’m from Drinax in the Trojan Reach. If I visit a nearby world like Torpol it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that they have a way (through treaty or something) of checking my space passport (in whatever form that may be).
If I were to travel further afield, to the sourjournate on the other side of the sector for example it’s incredibly likely the customs folks there have never seen Drinaxi Identification Documents and May lack the means to verify.
If I visit an Imperial world like Tobia the identity documents of some back woods planet on the border with the Hierate are unlikely to pass muster.
I guess documents like visas could be obtained at various embassies if such things existed but if your planet had no such embassies it seems unlikely people would be able to remotely apply for documentation.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The God-Emperor's Secretary of State demands and requires in the name of His Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer every assistance and protection as may be necessary or face the wrath of the God-Emperor.
Implicitly, they can't.
You're who you say you are, whoever that is.
If they are uncomfortable with that level of confidence, they won't let you in. If they catch you inside, they'll deport you, or shove you in a holding cell until you can be vetted.
Obviously, it depends on the polity and how liberal they are with their immigration rules.
You have to appreciate the basic reality that "this happens every day", and there's some policies to deal with that situation when they arise.
As a traveller, it behooves you to understand these identity laws and, perhaps best, to comply with them so that your travel is not unceremoniously disrupted or delayed by the authorities.
And if there are no "authorities", well then, "I'm Jack, from off world. Do you take gold?"
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
"Let's just say we'd prefer to avoid any imperial entanglements."
- old man in a bathrobe who did NOT break the "no blasters" rule of the establishment
