Proper Notations for Careers

[DickNervous]

I am working on an adventure for TravellerconUSA and will be using pre-generated characters. So here is my question (I'm using MgT):

What is the proper method for noting someone's rank and career in a dossier? For instance, if someone is a retired Brigadier in the Imperial Marines, how would you note that? Would it be:

1. Brigadier, Imperial Marines (Retired)
2. Imperial Marine Brigadier (Retired)
3. IM Brigadier (Retired)
4. Brigadier, IM (Retired)

And would you put (Ret.) instead of retired? Would that go first? Should his command be noted as well? If so, how? And is it the same for other services (Navy, Army, Scouts)?

For non-military, what would you put? Would you use "Rogue - Pirate" or just "Pirate"?

Also, are there any official seals/logos/emblems for the different Imperial services somewhere? I know I have seen on for the IISS, but don't recall if there are ones for the others.

Thanks!

 

[whulorigan]

Also, are there any official seals/logos/emblems for the different Imperial services somewhere? I know I have seen on for the IISS, but don't recall if there are ones for the others.

IISS - Red Imperial Sunburst
* - also separate division patches for Exploration, Survey, and Communications Branches

IN - Yellow Imperial Sunburst
* - also in T20 Sunburst w/ surrounding wreath and vertical central cutlass

IM - Maroon Imperial Sunburst
* - also in T20 Sunburst w/ surrounding wreath and 2 supporting cutlasses right and left - see icon next to my screenname above

Imperial Army - Black Imperial Sunburst

 

[Quint]

http://www.formsofaddress.info/Retired_Officer.html

No idea if Imperial protocol is the same, but here's the United States version.

D.

 

[Hovtej]

The form I got is officially:
Addressed as: Captain {Name}, USAFR, Retired
As a signature: {Name}, Captain, USAFR Retired
(USAFR = US Air Force Reserve)
The signature form seems more appropriate for a dossier and is closest to your fourth form. Depending on the space available, formality, etc, I've seen others abbreviate Retired to Ret. or (Ret.). I'm sure other countries have other forms.

 

[DickNervous]

IISS - Red Imperial Sunburst
* - also separate division patches for Exploration, Survey, and Communications Branches

IN - Yellow Imperial Sunburst
* - also in T20 Sunburst w/ surrounding wreath and vertical central cutlass

IM - Maroon Imperial Sunburst
* - also in T20 Sunburst w/ surrounding wreath and 2 supporting cutlasses right and left - see icon next to my screenname above

Imperial Army - Black Imperial Sunburst

http://www.formsofaddress.info/Retired_Officer.html

No idea if Imperial protocol is the same, but here's the United States version.

D.

Thank you both! So basically is is <Rank> <First Name> <Last Name>, <Service/Company/Etc>, <Ret. or Retired> like these examples:

• Director Dick Nervous, GeDeCo Corporate Security (Agent)
• Corporal Dick Nervous, Imperial Army, Ret. (Army)
• Brigadier Dick Nervous, IM, Ret. (Marines)
• 2nd Office Dick Nervous, Merchant Marine (Merchant)
• Petty Officer 1st Class Dick Nervous, IN, Ret. (Navy)
• Minister Dick Nervous (Noble: Diplomat)
• Lackey Dick Nervous (Rogue: Pirate)
• Senior Scout Dick Nervous, IISS, Ret. (Scout)

And for the Imperial services the different colored starbursts. Got it!

I'll make sure to post the character sheets when they are done, they are coming out pretty nice.

 

[DickNervous]

As I mentioned earlier, the question was so I could get stuff right on a character dossier I am working on. I just posted the "beta" of it for feedback in the Mongoose sub-forum, you can find it here.

 

[DickNervous]

To continue along this same avenue of questions, I have another, this time for Unit Designations. (I am really getting into building the back story for these characters!)

So a Brigadier commands the Marines for an entire fleet. So would you then say he was "Brigadier of the 212th Fleet"? Or do the Imperial Marines use something similar to the USMC where a "Marine Expeditionary Unit" (MEU) is assigned to a fleet? Or are they divided into Divisions and Regiments? And what size would be assigned to a fleet?

I guess the real question is what do the Marines use for units? I know the Imperial Navy has Squadrons and Fleets according to the Wiki, but there is no equivalent breakdown for the Marines.

And the Imperial Army has a fairly detailed breakdown on their page as well.

The reason for all this is that I want to make the characters as accurate as possible, which I know y'all appreciate.

Thanks!

 

[Enoki]

I'd think that a rogue or pirate character wouldn't have a dossier unless it was a "rap sheet..." That would include their various "aka's" / aliases... along with their Imperial (and potentially other) registration / inmate number(s)...

 

[DickNervous]

I'd think that a rogue or pirate character wouldn't have a dossier unless it was a "rap sheet..." That would include their various "aka's" / aliases... along with their Imperial (and potentially other) registration / inmate number(s)...

"Dossier" is defined as a "collection of documents about a particular person, event, or subject." So technically it would include everything from a birth certificate, school records, military files, rap sheets, bank accounts, medical records, news reports, court documents, and even your diary from middle school.

I am going on the assumption that at some point in time the each of the characters did something that caused Imperial Intelligence to create a file on them. And as we all know, bureaucracies love their standard forms, which in this case look a lot like character sheets.

 

[Enoki]

"Dossier" is defined as a "collection of documents about a particular person, event, or subject." So technically it would include everything from a birth certificate, school records, military files, rap sheets, bank accounts, medical records, news reports, court documents, and even your diary from middle school.

I am going on the assumption that at some point in time the each of the characters did something that caused Imperial Intelligence to create a file on them. And as we all know, bureaucracies love their standard forms, which in this case look a lot like character sheets.

And for criminals it'd be the equivalent of a "rap sheet."

For military, something like a DD 214 or a summary of service.

For civilians it'd be the equivalent of a resume.

You would expect additional documents would be added as needed for specific situations.

 

[aramis]

And for criminals it'd be the equivalent of a "rap sheet."

For military, something like a DD 214 or a summary of service.

For civilians it'd be the equivalent of a resume.

You would expect additional documents would be added as needed for specific situations.

More than half the military have a rap-sheet by outprocessing, at least through about 1985 (last time I looked up the data was in the late 90's, and it wasn't available past then). Most of them multiple minor misdemeanors, and torts for bad behavior and for traffic violations.

 

[McPerth]

Strictly IMHO and IMTU

To continue along this same avenue of questions, I have another, this time for Unit Designations. (I am really getting into building the back story for these characters!)

So a Brigadier commands the Marines for an entire fleet. So would you then say he was "Brigadier of the 212th Fleet"? Or do the Imperial Marines use something similar to the USMC where a "Marine Expeditionary Unit" (MEU) is assigned to a fleet? Or are they divided into Divisions and Regiments? And what size would be assigned to a fleet?

I guess the real question is what do the Marines use for units? I know the Imperial Navy has Squadrons and Fleets according to the Wiki, but there is no equivalent breakdown for the Marines.

And the Imperial Army has a fairly detailed breakdown on their page as well.

The reason for all this is that I want to make the characters as accurate as possible, which I know y'all appreciate.

Thanks!

I see the Marines as having two different deployement possibilities:

1. As member of an IM unit (battalion, regiment, DIvision, etc) and so in the TOW of this unit
2. As ship's troops, being independent of IM TOW and listed in the Crew registers of a specific ship

In case number 1, they are semi-independent of the IN, and under their own Chain of Command, and so, the Brigadier of a brigade would be called as such (e.g. John Smith, Brigadier of the 1^st Imperial Marines Brigade).

In case number 2, they are under IN command, as independent small units. even if a ship carries a full company of IM, they will be listed as part of the ship's crew, and so its Captain (called comander while embarked, as the ship can only have a Captain) will be adressed as John Smith, Commander of the IN (name of the ship) Marine Complement (see that if the ship had only a section, it will be called Lieutennent, instead of Commander), and listed in the ship's command crew rooster.

Going up, if this same cruiser (with a full company of IM) is part of the 624^th CruDron, that has 4 ships (totalling 4 IM companies), the Marine Complement for the whole squadron can act as a IM Task Force (called the 624^th CruDron IM TF), and the Flagship of the CruDron would carry among the Squadron Command Staff a Force Commander, that would be adressed as John Smith, 624^th CruDron Marine complement Force Commander.

And of course, you can keep going up in the scale. So, the commander of the Ship Troops Marines carried in a fleet, if it has Brigadier Rank, would be adressed as John Smith, (fleet's name) Marine Brigadier, and will be listed in the Fleet Aldmiral's staff, not in the IM TOE.

See that those IM complements, being part of the ship's crew, would be fully independent of any Marine Units carried in the ships/fleets as passengers in transport (though it may act under their command once landed).

Of course, YMMV (as can YTU)...

 

[whulorigan]

In case number 2, they are under IN command, as independent small units. even if a ship carries a full company of IM, they will be listed as part of the ship's crew, and so its Captain (called comander while embarked, as the ship can only have a Captain) will be adressed as John Smith, Commander of the IN (name of the ship) Marine Complement (see that if the ship had only a section, it will be called Lieutennent, instead of Commander), and listed in the ship's command crew rooster.

As a side note, a USMC tradition (in order to avoid confusion between a Ship's Captain and a Marine Captain) is to call a Marine Captain aboard a Navy vessel by the courtesy title of "Major". This would work especially well for Imperial Marines for whom their is no proper Officer rank titled "Major" (i.e. an O4 is a "Force Commander").

 

[McPerth]

As a side note, a USMC tradition (in order to avoid confusion between a Ship's Captain and a Marine Captain) is to call a Marine Captain aboard a Navy vessel by the courtesy title of "Major". This would work especially well for Imperial Marines for whom their is no proper Officer rank titled "Major" (i.e. an O4 is a "Force Commander").

Yes, I've heard this, that's why I put this color note, though it seems I botched among Major and Commander. Ok, so he will be adressed as John Smith, Major of the IN (name of the ship) Marine Complement.

 

[whulorigan]

Yes, I've heard this, that's why I put this color note, though it seems I botched among Major nad Commander. Ok, so he will be adressed as John Smith, Major of the IN (name of the ship) Marine Complement.

It could actually be both, perhaps:

FORMALLY: Marine Captain John Smith, Commander of the IN (name of the ship) Marine Complement.

INFORMALLY: "Major Smith", "the Major", etc.

 

[DickNervous]

Wow, that get's confusing! o:

Let me see if I got this right. The character was a Marine Brigadier (Ground Assult) during the Fifth Frontier War and was part of the 201st Fleet out of Pax Rulin. Since he is a Brigadier he would be in command of all the Marines in the fleet and be addressed as John Smith, 201st Fleet Marine Brigadier, correct?

What would a Lance Sergeant be in command of? Or a Sergeant Major?

And thank you so much! This is awesome and fascinating!

 

[whulorigan]

Wow, that get's confusing! o:

Let me see if I got this right. The character was a Marine Brigadier (Ground Assult) during the Fifth Frontier War and was part of the 201st Fleet out of Pax Rulin. Since he is a Brigadier he would be in command of all the Marines in the fleet and be addressed as John Smith, 201st Fleet Marine Brigadier, correct?

What would a Lance Sergeant be in command of? Or a Sergeant Major?

And thank you so much! This is awesome and fascinating!

A Lance Sergeant would likely lead a squad (or assist a full sergeant or staff sergeant as a section leader).

A Sergeant Major would likely be the senior Staff NCO for a battalion, regiment, or brigade, or of a deployed group of detachments of fleet/ships' companies formed into an operational force (at a guess).

 

[McPerth]

Wow, that get's confusing! o:

Sure, as is protocol most times...

Let me see if I got this right. The character was a Marine Brigadier (Ground Assult) during the Fifth Frontier War and was part of the 201st Fleet out of Pax Rulin. Since he is a Brigadier he would be in command of all the Marines in the fleet and be addressed as John Smith, 201st Fleet Marine Brigadier, correct?

Right. This will assume that he's the Brigadier of the Marines attached (as ship's troops) to the 201 Fleet, not from any Marine unit this fleet might be carrying.

And thank you so much! This is awesome and fascinating!

You're wellcome. Hope it helps

 

[aramis]

As a side note, a USMC tradition (in order to avoid confusion between a Ship's Captain and a Marine Captain) is to call a Marine Captain aboard a Navy vessel by the courtesy title of "Major". This would work especially well for Imperial Marines for whom their is no proper Officer rank titled "Major" (i.e. an O4 is a "Force Commander").

Truth is, there's little documentation of that.

The position tite pre WWI of the senior marine officer aboard was "Major of Marines" - but most such officers were lieutenants... and by all accounts, addressed as such ("Lieutenant").

It's not in the LPM, and not in the Naval manuals from WW I on. It's not in the USMC histories of rank titles, either.

I've encountered a Navy captain who served aboard a ship where the skipper had made it a standing order (Said Captain was a medical officer)... during the Korean era... And heard about such tradition from LtC Boyington and GySgt Bradley, but it's not actually noted.

Note also, many serving captains in command of embarked formations were breveted to major anyway...

 

[DickNervous]

Right. This will assume that he's the Brigadier of the Marines attached (as ship's troops) to the 201 Fleet, not from any Marine unit this fleet might be carrying.

Got it! Cool.

You're wellcome. Hope it helps

Hopefully the players will appreciate the level of detail I am putting into it, if not at least I am enjoying creating it.

On a seperate note, I was reading the GURPS Ground Forces book (at like 2am this morning) trying to figure out the general structure of both the Imperial Marines and Army. It was a bit confusing, but here is how I think it works.

Imperial Marines (Top down)

• Regiments
• Troop or Company
• Division or Squadron
• Platoon
• Squad

Imperial Army (Top Down)

• Corps
• Division
• Brigade
• Battalion or Squadron
• Company

I know there are exceptions, but I think this is how it generally works, based on the GURPS Ground Forces book at least. If this is correct, then I think I have my first addition to the Wiki to make.