Proper Notations for Careers

[aramis]

Doug used the UK system as his model, but not entirely, and made a bit of a mush of it.

US/NATO model, a division is larger unit than a Regiment. The Regiment (4-16 companies) is the fundamental field unit in the US system through WW II; in the UK it was the Battalion of 8-16 companies.

Traveller, except in GTGF, has always used the US labels and unit sizes.

Looking at the tables in MegaTraveller:

XXXX	Army
XXX	Corps
XX	Division
X	Brigade
III	Regiment
II	Battalion
I	Company
•••	Platoon
••	Section
•	Squad
—	Fire Team

Note that a UK regiment is NOT a standing formation, but an administrative and training formation which comprises up to a dozen battalions, each battalion roughly equivalent to a US Regiment. Usually, it's about 4 battalions.

So doug made a bit of a hash of it.

 

[DickNervous]

Doug used the UK system as his model, but not entirely, and made a bit of a mush of it.

US/NATO model, a division is larger unit than a Regiment. The Regiment (4-16 companies) is the fundamental field unit in the US system through WW II; in the UK it was the Battalion of 8-16 companies.

Traveller, except in GTGF, has always used the US labels and unit sizes.

Looking at the tables in MegaTraveller:

XXXX	Army
XXX	Corps
XX	Division
X	Brigade
III	Regiment
II	Battalion
I	Company
•••	Platoon
••	Section
•	Squad
—	Fire Team

Note that a UK regiment is NOT a standing formation, but an administrative and training formation which comprises up to a dozen battalions, each battalion roughly equivalent to a US Regiment. Usually, it's about 4 battalions.

So doug made a bit of a hash of it.

So would this be the official structure of the Imperial Marine and Army then? Other than the GURPS book I haven't found it documented anywhere else. The only military structure that Mongoose has detailed (AFAIK) is for the Navy in the Sector Fleet book.

 

[aramis]

So would this be the official structure of the Imperial Marine and Army then? Other than the GURPS book I haven't found it documented anywhere else. The only military structure that Mongoose has detailed (AFAIK) is for the Navy in the Sector Fleet book.

It's the system of nomenclature used in CT: Bk 4, G4, G5 & G7; MT: RSB & RC, TNE: Striker II. The only given examples I know of using the british version are in GTGF.

It's the Nato nomeclature (note that a few "extensions" exist... some official, some not. Note that these are not used in Traveller officially, but are worth noting.

IIII	British Regiment	Occasionally used (incorrectly but with clarity) for a UK Regiment.	IIII	Regimental Combat Team	Regiment plus multiple attached Battalions. This one is unofficial symbol; use the Brigade, instead, or indicate a Regiment Reinforced.
III+	Reinforced Regiment	Sometimes officially used for RCTs
••••	half-company	Used by a few historians for the half-company of 2 platoons operating independently of Company HQ (the other 2-3 platoons with the HQ get "I-"
Ø	Team/Crew	US Military & Nato Official
ØØ	Half-squad	unofficial, used in a couple of obsolete US Army and USMC training documents, primarily for indicating 2 fireteams together of a 4 fireteam squad (usually 12 man, so 3 man FTs)
++	Command	Official US Military for a unit which is non-standard, united only by being assigned to a specific commander

[tr] [td]III[/td][td]Battalion Combat Team[/td][td]Battalion plus multiple attached Battalions. I've seen it used, but not in official capacities.[/td][/tr]

Note that, while the UK Battalion (II) is comparable to the US Regiment (III), there's no british formal equivalent to the US Battalion, but that it exists ad-hoc by the Battalion having multiple majors, each major replacing a captain as company CO, and in detached units, A Company's Major commands a detachment of Companies A-C, D's Major of Companies D-F, G's Major a detachment of G-I, and Co J's Major a unit of Co's J-L. Some units it was one major per 4 companies, and a few 1 per 2 companies. These would usually be indicated by the ++ unit type symbol, then delineating it as 2, 3, or 4 companies.

In practice, the UK Battalion should be coded III like the US type Regiments.

Sourcing this mostly out of US Army FM 102/MCRP 5-12A and FM 101-5-1/MCRP 5-2A, but also out of reading several unpublished unit histories buring in government records, as well as some records. I have seen that a UK style Aussie regiment was diagrammed by a US Army officer as IIII with the Battalions as Regiments (III) in the WW II era.

None-the-less, the UK system still uses II for Battalions and III for regiments in everything I've seen.

And then, there's the issue of alternate unit names by type.

Symbol	Infantry	Cavalry	Artillery	Aviation
XXX	Air Force
XX	Command (US)
X	Wing (US)
III	Regiment	Regiment	Regiment	Group
II	Battalion	Squadron	Battalion	Squadron
I	Company	Troop	Battery	—
•••	Platoon	Lance	Platoon	Flight
••	Section	Section	Gun	—
•	Squad	Squad	Squad	Element

[tc=3]Corps[/tc] [tc=3]Division[/tc] [tc=3]Brigade[/tc]

All of which muddle things considerably.
Especially since several nations swap Air Group and Air Wing...

And let's not even touch on the Naval units.
Fleet
Group
Squadron
Line
Ship
Which bend the system in interesting ways.

 

[Condottiere]

Battalion and regiment could be used interchangeably, until the regiment becomes an administrative unit, and the battalion the field unit of three to ten companies, which are distributed to divisions, that assign them to brigades.

 

[aramis]

Battalion and regiment could be used interchangeably, until the regiment becomes an administrative unit, and the battalion the field unit of three to ten companies, which are distributed to divisions, that assign them to brigades.

Regiment was an administrative unit in the UK by 1800... A specific group of soldiery mustered by a given patron or location, with a charter from the crown.
The confounding of the two is caused by the fact that a given regiment seldom sent more than one battalion to any one division, often only one to each theater. The usage seems administratively pretty fixed in Britain by the 17th century.

So, when looking at, for example, the US revolutionary war, A given UK Regiment's contribution to that theater was usually only one battalion at a time, but at the same time, another might be training up at RHQ, and another 0-3 were deployed to other locations, and possibly one trained one on station at RHQ for R&R (and replacements).

The UK hasn't fielded regiments as such in centuries, as far as I can find in documentation and regulation. Note that, from about 1800 on, the UK Army Regulations are available online now, and the US Army from about 1820 on.

But the soldiers on the field identified as being with the Regiment, even tho' only the Battalion was sent. Some exceptions are notable in the mid-late 19th C, where two battalions of a given regiment were present in one theater... sometimes resulting in interesting errors.

 

[DickNervous]

It's the system of nomenclature used in CT: Bk 4, G4, G5 & G7; MT: RSB & RC, TNE: Striker II. The only given examples I know of using the british version are in GTGF.

Alright then, so this is the structure that I will use.

I tell you, having never been in the military I never realized just how complex and confusing this could be!

Thank you everyone for all your answers and enlightenment!

 

[aramis]

Alright then, so this is the structure that I will use.

I tell you, having never been in the military I never realized just how complex and confusing this could be!

Thank you everyone for all your answers and enlightenment!

There's a lot of historical stuff that is problematic.

The US symbol system, essentially imposed upon NATO, is US centric. Note that the number of X's is also the expected number of stars on the shoulders of the CO.

As for Traveller...

Regiments and Brigades seem to be the formational units, with Divisions, Corps, Armies, and Army-Groups (XXXXX) being essentially field formations.


Some terms for you:
Administrative Formation: a unit that exists on paper, but in practice is just a headquarters, with its various units routinely assigned under other commands.
Field Formation: a unit that is put together for a specific theater, usually comprised of multiple smaller units that are standing formations.
Standing Formation: a unit that has a full time existence. In the US Army, pre WW I, all standing units were Regiments and Companies.
Ad-Hoc formation: a formation made from a portion of a standing or field formation on an as-needed basis. In the US pre-WW I, Battalions were ad-hoc - the Colonel took the 1st 4-6 companies as 1st Battalion, the Lt Col the next 4-6 as second battalion, and the Major the last 2-4 as third battalion.
Notional Unit: a unit that is what is theoretically supposed to be. Practice varies. Widely. For example, some US Regiments have as few as 4 companies of 50 men each, but the notional Regiment is 3 Battalions of 3 companies each, the practical is anywhere from 6 to 20 companies.

Several other concepts, simplified
Unit of Enrollment: What size unit one enlists into. In the US, it was (pre 1890) the Army Regiment, then (1890-1956) the Corps (renamed Branch), then, post 1956, the service. The USMC was notionally a single regiment until the USCW, then a brigade, and the modern is actually a full sized army... Note that as it expanded, so also did the Commandant's rank. The USMC itself has always been a single unit of enrollment, unlike the Army.

Foundational Unit The notional unit size that is the defined standard level, and is used in practice.

Unit of Identity the notional unit at which the troops identify as "I'm in the Xth". Usually also the unit level at which distinctive unit heraldry exists. Air, it's usually the squadron. US army has varied from Regiment, to Battalion (3-39 Inf) to Brigade (172nd) and Division (6th ID).

Deployment Unit: the notional unit size at which units are deployed as whole bodies. Currently either Brigade Combat Teams or Regimental Combat Teams, air squadrons, and field hospitals

Tactical Maneuver Unit the smallest unit normally separated tactically within an engagement from it's CO's CO. Currently, various nations range from Squads to half-companies... in the 19th C, it was usually the company, sometimes groups of 2-4 companies, depending upon the Regiment (US) or Battalion (UK) commander. Medieval Armies, it was usually the Company...

Patrol Unit The size of unit normally sent out on patrols. In the 19th C, it was often a full company, tactically dividing into four platoons.

Band of the Hand a conceptual limit on direct control - a CO can't directly supervise more people than he has fingers. THis is why most units break into 3-5 sub-units.

Rule of 10 Most higher commands operate on rule of 1:10 Command:subcommands. Often, this is 2 levels up or down. This dates back to the Roman Republic. Often, it winds up being as many as 12-18 subunits on paper, but they group into 3-5 ad hoc subunits...