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Proto-Traveller

Originally posted by Maksim-Smelchak:
Hi Guys,

This sounds interesting.

There are:

Milieu 0 (4th Ed.)
Milieu 200
Milieu Classic 1100 (1rst Ed.)
Milieu Rebellion 1110+ (3rd Ed.)

*** Where would proto-Traveller be? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
If we wanted (1) a younger Spinward Marches, and (2) a somewhat compressed timeline, then PT could maybe be in a divergent timeline, just before the Barracks Emperors perhaps, and let the timeline proceed differently (according to the needs of the referee, it could be very different or very similar)?
 
I would argue that PT is not just a different setting it is a different universe. The actual geography is different. It is a unique idea.
 
It is half way to an unique idea, as it is simply the Imperial Campaign in its infancy. Simply because the world got larger does not disqualify it from being the same world. For example, when the European set across the Atlantic and believed that they would fall off or reach China and instead found North America, their perspective was suddenly widened. The called it - A New World but in reality it was the same old world just a new perspective.

Similarly, early CT or PT can viewed in that light. The geography of the early Imperial Campaign could be influenced by other factors. True, the timeline is the difficult thing to square but sudden changes have been known to happen as well.
 
Great thread -- great reading, and great ideas. Just getting "back" into Traveller after ~20 year hiatus. Took me a while to understand some of the acronyms. This thread should be required reading
 
"Let me see if I can summarize . . .
Proto-Traveller is powered by CT+ in a 5000T or less ship universe with a smaller Imperium that has more ragged frontiers populated with more criminal characters and a real gritty feeling."

OOO! That's ME!
 
Okay.

Love.
This.
Thread.

Now I have a good name for what I'm involved in here: ProtoTraveller.

I'm going at it this way:

SMALL TU: starting point of 9 subsectors, homegrown.

*LBB 1-3, 2nd edition as core, following what's explicit and what's implicit

*utilizing other CT rule editions or supplements insofar as they fill gaps in the LBB 1-3 rules in a way that matches the spirit of LBB 1-3 2nd ed.

Spinning as much from whole cloth, otherwise.

I catch myself being infected, a lot, by post-LBB3 language. "Imperium" for example... But I do think that at least one major interstellar government or culture is *implicit* in LBB 1-3, so I've got one.

So, check out what I've been up to:
http://festeria.blogspot.com
 
I like some of your thoughts, specifically the ones on NPCs, what happens when a 400t Imperial Merchant comes calling, and your thought on LBB2 et al.


You should post more of it for discussion on CotI IMHO.

Oh, and I've bookmarked your blog. I'm looking forward to reading more.
 
Yes, Proto-Traveller has a lot in common with Burgess Shale Traveller.

SO, still assuming Traveller astrography (i.e. a 2D universe), but laying aside the rules for the moment, laying aside the OTU -- including the Spinward Marches -- what do you like in a frontierlike setting?

How many sectors? 1? 2? 2x2? 3x3?

How much frontier?

In general, is the "bisected empire" model compelling, or merely nostalgic?

What other features can you think of that would add interest and coolness?

Nebulae?

Central trade routes?

What Empire sizes do you think are the most interesting?

How many competing empires makes for enough variety without overwhelming players?

IMTU

I think I'd prefer a 3x3, but I also want a Big Rift, perhaps something close to a bisecting Rift. Total, maybe 3x5. I also like weaker central governments, so the capital world is going to have to be low on control or far away.

A nebula would be nice, especially if it blocks the players from being able to see space behind it: all of a sudden you have a mystery near your own backyard, and you're near that critical stage of discovery.

And a Roman-Road-style Main Trade Route could be interesting.

But what about competing empires? And aliens?

Code:
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
|     |     |     |     |     |
| pe  | ??? | rift| pe  | pe  |
|     |     |     |     |     |
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
|     |     |     |     |     |
| ??? |  X  | Cap |  Y  | pe  |
|     |     |     |     |     |
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+
|     |     |     |     |     |
| ??? | ??? | rift| ??? | ??? |
|     |     |     |     |     |
+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+

Cap  = your capital is here
X    = your side of the empire
Y    = the other side of your empire
rift = great rift
pe   = some other pocket empire

???  = unexplored territory
(some portions could be occluded by nebulae)
 
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I made great use of a nebula (the "Rimward Rainbow") IMTU. Lovely exploration adventures, plus some military/espionage/smuggling stuff in the fringes.

I would recommend that at least part of one edge of the central government be defined by an "unexplored nebula".
 
Originally posted by Imperium Festerium:
...So, check out what I've been up to:
http://festeria.blogspot.com
I have, a bit late it seems (should have clicked that link in your sig when I first saw it). I'm cathcing up, and liking what I'm seeing. I'm with Sigg in a way, post it over here too, please. But I can see your reasons for blogging it too, so I'm happy to add yours to my list and comment there. Curse you for increasing my list of must read blogs ;)
 
Here's my second attempt. It's only 2 sectors by 3 sectors (I'm showing the subsector boundary markers to the top and left).

Three pocket empires, one rival empire, a bisecting rift, and a whole lotta unexplored territory, all in six sectors.

Code:
C is Capital 
x is you
S is a Small Pocket Empire
R is the Rival Empire


 +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +       +
+............................................                  ............::::::::...............
 .............................................                ............:........:..............
 ................................................             ...........:..........:::::.........
 ....:::::::......................................            ..........::...............:........
 ...:.......:::..................................            :::::::::::..................:.......
+..:...........:..................................          ...............................:......
 ..:............:.................................          .................R.............:......
 ..:......S......:................................         . ...............................:.....
 ...:........::::::::............................         . .................................:....
 ...:.....:::........::::.........:::::::::...:::          :::::::...........................:....
+....::::.:.:....x.......:::::::::.........:::.. .         .......:::::::....................:....
 ............:::..................:....:::::.... .        ...............::::::..............:....
 ...............:..............:::.S...:..........        .....................:::..........:.....
 .............::.....:::......:........:...........        ......................:.:::::::::......
 ............:......:...:.....:......::.......... .         ......................:...............
+..........:::.....:.....:...:......:............. .      . .......................:..............
 .............::::::.....:...:......:............ .      ... .......................:.............
 ........................:....::::::................   C.... ........................:............
 ......................::::..........................    .. .........................:............
 .....................::...:::.................... ..      ...........................:...........
+....................:.:......:::................. ..       ..........................:...........
 ...................:..:...S.....:..................          .......................:............
 ....................::...........:..............           ........................:.............
 ......................::......:::.:::.........             ........................:.............
 ........................::::::.......::::.....             .......................:..............
+.........................................:::::             ....................:::...............
 ..............................................            ....................:..................
 .............................................           ..................::::...................
 .............................................            ........:::::::::.......................
 ............................................           .. :::::::................................
+..........................................            ... .......................................
 .........................................              .. .......................................
 ..........................................                .......................................
 ..........................................               ........................................
 ...........................................               .......................................
+.........................................                ........................................
 .....................................                 ...........................................
 .................................  . .               ............................................
 ..............................   .                  .............................................
 ........................... .                      ..............................................
 
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Robject, that looks pretty cool. *Big* for my taste ^_- but I like the spread - especially in that you have to cut through them pocket empires if you want to get to the capital - "Our ships? Interfering with Imperial couriers? Unthinkable, your grace. Your reports must be mistaken."

Thanks for the kindnesses, Sigg, Dan!

Jeff, absolutely yes: there's many ways that the TU I'm working on is a Burgess Shale type, with the differences that I'm using 2nd edition as the standard rather than 1st, and I'm taking advantage of some of the "Traveller Book" and "Starter Traveller" refinements.

I'll be happy to post more 'round CotI, especially in cases where I'm trying to clarify sumpin' in my head, pretty much like I've done both here and over in the Yahoo groups.
 
OK, that's what I thought. For me, this is my default setting for Traveller - no matter the rules version. I'm not knocking the OTU at all, but ever since I first looked at the LBBs I realized that Traveller was a great role-playing toolkit to play the kinds of science fiction adventures that I had always wanted to - the ones I created on my own. Traveller set the standard for science fiction role-playing games.

Now, that being said, here's some goodies I made up for Classic Traveller:

Small Craft


Gig: Using a 20-ton hull, the gig is capable of 3-G acceleration, carries 1 ton of fuel tankage and has a crew of two. A gig may mount missile racks, sandcasters, and a single laser. The maximum computer for the gig is a Model/3, only a Model/2bis maximum may be mounted if a laser is one of its weapons. The craft has 6 tons of excess space available for custom use, and costs MCr 22.

Lander: Using a 10-ton hull, the lander is capable of 2-G acceleration, carries 1 ton of fuel and has a crew of two. A lander may mount only missile racks or sandcasters. The maximum computer for a lander is a Model/2bis. The craft has 4 tons of excess space available for custom use, and costs MCr 8.


Type ML Longboat


Longboat (Type ML): Using a 100-ton hull, the longboat is intended as a light multipurpose unit favored by both jackers and belters for prospecting and independent trading. It mounts jump drive-A, maneuver drive-A, and power plant-A, giving performance of jump-2 and 2-G acceleration in a streamlined hull with fuel scoops. Fuel tankage of 40 tons supports the power plant and one jump-2. Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/1bis. There are one-and-a-half staterooms and four low berths. The ship has a single turret at its hardpoint with one ton allocated to fire control and a sandcaster mounted (usually with multipurpose loads). There are no ship’s vehicles. Cargo capacity is 15 tons with connection points for a 10 or 15 ton L-Hyd tank to be mounted there (KCr 20 for 10-ton, KCr 25 for 15-ton).
The longboat requires a crew one: pilot/engineer. The ship can carry one passenger at double occupancy (middle passage only) and 4 low passengers, along with 15 tons of cargo for commercial service. The ship costs MCr 27.91 (including 10% discount for standard designs) and takes 9 months to build.


Alternate Sandcaster Loads

These are different kinds of canisters that can be loaded into the standard sandcaster launcher. All standard sandcaster launchers have a ready supply of 3 sand canisters and a magazine equal to the ship’s tonnage/5. An autoloader may be installed that consumes either one turret weapon space or 0.25 tons of internal ship space and costs KCr25.
Standard – This is the standard sand canister listed in the main book. 50kg, Cr400.
KKV – A kinetic kill vehicle that acts as a shotgun blast of shrapnel against another ship in a barely effective manner. It may also obscure as a normal sand canister. The KKV does ((1D/2)-2) hits damage when it contacts another ship. 50 kg, Cr500.
Small Missile – A powered self-guided piece of ordnance that does 1D/2 hits when it contacts another ship, it is weaker than the standard missile. 50kg, Cr2500.
Sensor Drone – A cluster of sensors in a canister that is equivalent to a standard/commercial ships sensors connected to a communicator and a 24 hour duration battery. 50kg, Cr2500.


Comm Laser Defense System

This is a setting for the communications system that allows the message laser onboard each ship to be used in a point defense mode. It is mediocre at best and cannot be used as a missile defense (missiles are hardened against this minor weapon). The CLDS may be fired at other ships, but will only do ((1D/2)-2) damage per hit it actually scores on another ship. Every ship has this as part of its onboard systems.


JACKERS

Jacker – The diminutive form of the words ‘hijacker’ and ‘jackal’. These are rugged individualists who live and work in space surviving by odd jobs, prospecting, salvage, ship crewing, and construction.

Enlistment: 8+ (DM +1 if End 8+, DM +2 if Int 8+)
Survival: 9+ (DM + number of terms, including first term)
No commission or promotion or retirement pension. May start career at age 14.
Reenlist: 6+
Service Skills and Eligibility: Vacc Suit -1 automatically, 2 skills per term.

Personal Development Table - Service Skills Table -
1 +1 Str 1 Vacc Suit
2 +1 Dex 2 Gun Cbt
3 +1 End 3 Air/Raft
4 +1 Int 4 Mechanical
5 +1 Edu 5 Electronics
6 Vacc Suit 6 Engineering
Advanced Education Table - Advanced Education Table (Edu 8+) -
1 Medical 1 Pilot
2 Pilot 2 Navigation
3 Engineering 3 Ship’s Boat
4 Air/Raft 4 Streetwise
5 Computer 5 Admin
6 Jack of all Trades 6 Jack of all Trades

Benefits Table - Cash Table -
1 Low Passage 1 100 credits
2 +1 Int 2 100 credits
3 +1 Edu 3 1000 credits
4 Middle Passage 4 5000 credits
5 Vacc Suit 5 10,000 credits
6 Air/Raft 6 50,000 credits
7 Type ML Longboat (100 ton)
(DM of +1 per term on benefit rolls only)

 
Now, I know I said:

"I do think that at least one major interstellar government or culture is *implicit* in LBB 1-3, so I've got one."

And currently a lot of what I've built into my Grand Festrian Empire is based on that assumption.

But now I'm asking myself whether PT really needs what I will refer to as an IG (interstellar government). I've come to some conclusions already for MTU, and since I don't know that I want to start from scratch, I won't necessarily change stuff based on this unless it's really cool and I feel like it.

Let me kick some stuff out there:

The Services:

Navy: To exist as writ, needs as a minimum one starfaring planet judged capable of fielding a navy. Not necessarily an IG, although a powerful starfaring planet will certainly spread its power unless it's a pacifist world. And that's no fun. So: the Navy career suggests to me that at minimum a TU would contain a number of cluster- empires, and a bunch of planetary navies. Widespread navy bases don't necessarily indicate that they're all the same polity's base. (All your base are not belong to the IG)
Marines: Marines All Ride In Navy Equipment Sir, so the above applies here, though the Navy needn't be starfaring.
Army: Groundpounders: needn't have any association with an IG at all, could be strictly planetary.
Scouts: My instinct was to say that the profusion of scout bases providing free stuff to all teh scouts was an indicator of a Big Old Imperium style IG but as described in Book 1, 'taint necessarily so. The Scouts explore, and carry information and messages between the worlds of the galaxy - but it don't say for whom.

Supposing for a moment that the Scouts, as a service, were free agents? More on this later. If you tie the Scout Service to a polity, it implies a large IG. But you don't have to, it seems to me.

Merchants: Merchants could easily be their own polity (see Cherryh's Merchanter Alliance.) In a way, though, I see the LBB2 ruleset as a strong indication of some force, governmental or economic, acting on merchants from without. Either A) The Market for passage and cargo has matured sufficiently that the prices as set in LBB2 are determined as what the Travelling Community will pay or B) some other agency - an IG? the TAS? MegaCorps trying to use their clout to hammer down Free Trader competition? - is fixing prices.

While the trade rules are intended to be abstractions and don't bear much scrutiny, they do tend to suggest that there's a lot of uniformity in human space, and that suggests a large IG.

Other: Implies nothing about the IG question.

The TAS: Weird stuff. As writ, the ubiquitous TAS extends throughout human space wherever there's a class A or B starport. (no mention of IG necessarily) Whether or not it's associated with any IG, it's certainly implicated in playing some role with interstellar travel price fixing, what with those travel dividends - indeed, the TAS has a strong interest in keeping the price of high passages down and restricted to Per-Jump structures. The TAS is the Traveller's Aid society, not the Merchant's Aid Society... Interesting to note the TAS nod to the Navy and Marines, w/r/t benefit memberships: If the Navy and Marines represent an IG, then the TAS would appear to be all for it.

Starports and Extraterritoriality: AFAICT, while "in nearly all cases" starports are considered extraterritorial, I don't see that LBB3 dictates what polity they do belong to, if any. LBB1 provides a strong suggestion of a large IG, in that a retired character can pick up retirement pay at any A or B starport - it at least implies a high degree of cooperation between interstellar financial agencies for this to happen.

Travel Zones: So who says that's a red zone? The TAS? Scouts? A Local IG? Here we have a pretty strong indication of an IG capable of enforcing interdict on a world.

That was too much and now I have to work. Thoughts?
 
Widespread guilds could explain the merchant service, the scouts, and the Travellers' Aid Society.

They aren't tied to any planetary or pocket empire sized government, but they provide too useful a service for the governments to do anything but support them.

Hmm, the scout/merchant/Travellers alliance could be what sets up new starports as exploration and expansion takes place...
 
What y'all're describing is very Dumarest, seems to me. There appeared to be no central government, but a dizzying number of inhabited and inhabitable worlds, enough interstellar travel, some guilds and associations, and lots of downtrodden people.
 
That would be a pretty cool model, I think. I'd then view the TAS benefits for Navy and Marine characters as part of a TAS program to encourage friendly relations with polities and reward "Individual Action to the Benefit of Interstellar Humanity" or some such.

The one thing that the mechanics do suggest to me is an *uneasy* relationship between merchants, at least small-liners and Free Traders, and the TAS. The TAS makes safe travel easier for everyone, ans thus improve general business for everyone, but if they're a major player in keeping the passage model at "per jump" then there might be some merchanter arguments against TAS interference in the market. So a Scout/TAS alliance seems natural; the Merchants might separate from this but in grudging compliance. To the TAS, the merchants would be "part of the problem" to be solved.
 
Well then, maybe you'd prefer a subset?

Behold, Known Space!

Code:
...............         . ......................
............:::          :::::::................
.........:::.. .         .......:::::::.........
.....:::::.... .        ...............::::::...
.....:..........        ...................::...
.....:...........        ....................:..
...::.......... .         ....................:.
..:............. .      . ....................:.
..:............ .      ... ...................:.
.:................   ..... ..................:..
..:................    .. ...................:..
...:............ ..      ....................:..
....:::......... ..       ..................:...
.......::::.......          ...............:....
...........::::           ...............::.....
.............             .............::.......
.............             .........::::.........
.............             ....:::::.............
.............            :::::..................
............           .........................
Alternately, the setting could be an area that has a lot of sparse bits... rift puddles or something.
 
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One thing about putting Capital at that crossing point - I would use a non-Capital planet. Just so I could have someone wipe out the place and cause the spinward half of the nation to be cut off from the trailing half. Then you can get an interesting frontier with re-establishment of the rift bridge.

Heh, I'm almost inspired to do my own non-OTU PT universe.
file_22.gif
 
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