Proto-Traveller
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Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, I was actually thinking further out (NOBODY can put Humpty back together!).
One thought was: A couple hundred years where the only connection might be through someone else's territory. And, though they still consider themselves part of the "Empire", their society evolves a bit differently. Some outer bits even drop off the map altogether. Sort of an alternate "Long Night".
One thought was: A couple hundred years where the only connection might be through someone else's territory. And, though they still consider themselves part of the "Empire", their society evolves a bit differently. Some outer bits even drop off the map altogether. Sort of an alternate "Long Night".
I'm heading toward Fester's Traveller: no Imperium -- at least, not anymore. Just scads of tiny pocket empires, following some type of head-chopped-off distribution:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">No. of Member Worlds No. of PEs of this size
8 1
6 2
4 4
3 6
2 8
1 16
No. Settled Worlds: 86</pre>[/QUOTE]That'll fit snugly inside one rifty sector:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">No. of Member Worlds No. of PEs of this size
8 1
6 2
4 4
3 6
2 8
1 16
No. Settled Worlds: 86</pre>[/QUOTE]That'll fit snugly inside one rifty sector:
Code:
(note: pixels are 2 hexes "tall", 1 hex "wide")
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Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ummm, no.
That's getting a little too small-universe.
That's getting a little too small-universe.
Geez. I might have to work on a whole different PTU now.
I like my Festrian Empire a lot.
But it uses a model whereby trade within the Empire was pretty closely regulated, with the Starports all under Imperial administration, and wherein the TAS played a major role in maintaining Imperial price fixing.
A more open PTU, with smaller polities, with the TAS, Merchants and Scouts being independent of local government and spreading throughout human space, is really attractive.
I'm trying to see what would change in Grand Festeria if this were the case: I'm already going with the Independent Interstellar Scout Service. I just gotta think more about it.
I like my Festrian Empire a lot.
But it uses a model whereby trade within the Empire was pretty closely regulated, with the Starports all under Imperial administration, and wherein the TAS played a major role in maintaining Imperial price fixing.
A more open PTU, with smaller polities, with the TAS, Merchants and Scouts being independent of local government and spreading throughout human space, is really attractive.
I'm trying to see what would change in Grand Festeria if this were the case: I'm already going with the Independent Interstellar Scout Service. I just gotta think more about it.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You could make Grand Festeria the largest multi-world government, and have lots of smaller pocket empires, and independent worlds.
Something that's interested me for a while now is that balkanised worlds could actually be due to more than one interstellar polity setting up colonies on a particular world.
Something that's interested me for a while now is that balkanised worlds could actually be due to more than one interstellar polity setting up colonies on a particular world.
It's tempting, but so much of the structure I've set up with Fester - trade routes, a lot of the thinking behind it - are based on the pertnear the wholedern thing being empire.
I've posted a compromise notion on my festeria blog: it leaves Grand Festeria in place (with the clear notion that beyond the 9 subsectors is plenty more room
Only the Navy and Marines indicate definite Imperial service, whereas Army is generally either local or "professional help:" The Scout Service and the TAS both span human space and are independent of local polity, including Festeria.
I'm not sure whether I'm going to go with this, though; sorta trying it on for size.
I've posted a compromise notion on my festeria blog: it leaves Grand Festeria in place (with the clear notion that beyond the 9 subsectors is plenty more room
Only the Navy and Marines indicate definite Imperial service, whereas Army is generally either local or "professional help:" The Scout Service and the TAS both span human space and are independent of local polity, including Festeria. I'm not sure whether I'm going to go with this, though; sorta trying it on for size.
Maybe the real experiment in terms of a PTU would be to go this route:
NO major polity, possible minor ones, but mostly single worlds in human space.
Navy and Marines as the arm of spacefaring worlds; worlds with no navies falling under the protection/domain of those that have them (the basis for most minor polities)
Armies as local planetary forces by&large
Scouts being an independent polity in the service of humanity, maintaning neutral communication links and supporting exploration
Merchants being an independent polity in the service of the bottom line
Other being, well, Other.
Nobility being local.
From a referreeing standpoint, treating each world as a separate entity rather than "just another imperial domain" would make big TU's a heck of a lot more work.
The players' Homeworld would be a lot more significant: it's the capital. It's your natal soil. It's Home.
A subsector or two might actually be enough, for a while at least.
NO major polity, possible minor ones, but mostly single worlds in human space.
Navy and Marines as the arm of spacefaring worlds; worlds with no navies falling under the protection/domain of those that have them (the basis for most minor polities)
Armies as local planetary forces by&large
Scouts being an independent polity in the service of humanity, maintaning neutral communication links and supporting exploration
Merchants being an independent polity in the service of the bottom line
Other being, well, Other.
Nobility being local.
From a referreeing standpoint, treating each world as a separate entity rather than "just another imperial domain" would make big TU's a heck of a lot more work.
The players' Homeworld would be a lot more significant: it's the capital. It's your natal soil. It's Home.
A subsector or two might actually be enough, for a while at least.
"If they are independent, who finances them? Do they get the nescery money from selling information and from postal/communication charges?"
for MTU, I'm envisioning the Scouts being financed from postal/communication charges both at the individual level and at the planetary/polity government level: by and large, having a scoutbase in your system would be a boon. I imagine that the TAS might kick in something as well: The way I'm envisioning things, the legendary Beowulf's distress call would be much more likely to be answered by an S-ship than a T.
The S-type is pretty cheap; and you don't need to keep all those detached-duty Scouts on payroll; there's no pensioners to worry about.
Looking at the Scout skill-set, I'm really starting to love this model: they're resourceful (all that JOT) but straight-shooters (no crook skills consummate Spacers (all pilots, lots of spacer-type skills.)
I've settled on this for my Festrian Empire: My Independent Interstellar Scout Service has for its logo a black circle, in which a hand grips a flaming torch, in gold. Motto: "We Part The Dark"
The scatter of ill-developed worlds that LBB3 system generation tends to create has always implied to me a widespread human population emerging from a "fall" or a "dark age;" the Long Night of the OTU is one of the features I always thought rang most "true." I have one big one and one little one IMTU.
The Scout Service IMTU exists to prevent another dark age.
for MTU, I'm envisioning the Scouts being financed from postal/communication charges both at the individual level and at the planetary/polity government level: by and large, having a scoutbase in your system would be a boon. I imagine that the TAS might kick in something as well: The way I'm envisioning things, the legendary Beowulf's distress call would be much more likely to be answered by an S-ship than a T.
The S-type is pretty cheap; and you don't need to keep all those detached-duty Scouts on payroll; there's no pensioners to worry about.
Looking at the Scout skill-set, I'm really starting to love this model: they're resourceful (all that JOT) but straight-shooters (no crook skills
consummate Spacers (all pilots, lots of spacer-type skills.) I've settled on this for my Festrian Empire: My Independent Interstellar Scout Service has for its logo a black circle, in which a hand grips a flaming torch, in gold. Motto: "We Part The Dark"
The scatter of ill-developed worlds that LBB3 system generation tends to create has always implied to me a widespread human population emerging from a "fall" or a "dark age;" the Long Night of the OTU is one of the features I always thought rang most "true." I have one big one and one little one IMTU.
The Scout Service IMTU exists to prevent another dark age.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I.F., make sure you take this idea over to the IMTU threads. Would get loads more exposure to all kinds of thoughts from great folks.
Imperium Festerium, I like the direction your are going to for the Scouts!
From what you've said so far, I'd imagine them to be a cross between the Babylon 5 Rangers ("The Scout Service exists to prevent another dark age"), gypsies and a postal/exploration cooperative.
By a cooperative I mean a decentralized corporation, in which each employee holds a (roughly) equal amount of shares rather than having a small circle of big shareholders at the top; decisions are made by popular vote when possible and by elected deputies when nescery; dividends gets shared equally between the members. The rankless and informal structure of the Scouts given in LBB1, combined with your notes, fit this model well.
When you join the Scouts you don't automatically get a share; you'll have to "buy into the Service" by hard work as an Apprentice. After a few terms you'd earn a partial share (voting rights and partial dividends); a "detached" Type-S is actually a full share, allowing you to work both for the Service (by holding back the Night and by a few missions per year) AND for yourself (revenews generated by the Type-S).
From what you've said so far, I'd imagine them to be a cross between the Babylon 5 Rangers ("The Scout Service exists to prevent another dark age"), gypsies and a postal/exploration cooperative.
By a cooperative I mean a decentralized corporation, in which each employee holds a (roughly) equal amount of shares rather than having a small circle of big shareholders at the top; decisions are made by popular vote when possible and by elected deputies when nescery; dividends gets shared equally between the members. The rankless and informal structure of the Scouts given in LBB1, combined with your notes, fit this model well.
When you join the Scouts you don't automatically get a share; you'll have to "buy into the Service" by hard work as an Apprentice. After a few terms you'd earn a partial share (voting rights and partial dividends); a "detached" Type-S is actually a full share, allowing you to work both for the Service (by holding back the Night and by a few missions per year) AND for yourself (revenews generated by the Type-S).
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Book 6, copyright 1983. Or possible sooner if there were Digest articles about the IISS (which I vaguely recall there being).
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Ack, Sigg is correct, I totally forgot about Traders and Gunboats details of IISS ships
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Ack, Sigg is correct, I totally forgot about Traders and Gunboats details of IISS ships
I'm posting this here in IMTU now, a blend of what I hashed out here and on me blogg:
I've been cobbling together a strict LBB123 TU, and exploring the possibilities of a small-ship, small-empire TU. This has led me to a re-assessment of the Scout Service, going only by interpretation of what I find in LBB123, second edition.
I started from these points:
LBB3 does NOT assume a single Interstellar Government.
LBB3 system generation tends to produce many, many underpopulated and underdeveloped worlds, whose survival separate from an interstellar community would be far from assured. IMTU, this indicates some sort of dark age similar to the OTU Long Night.
In LBB3 subsector generation, scout bases tend to be widely distributed. Going by LBB1, these all welcome detached duty scouts for free fuel and board - so a widespread, single Scout service throughout human space.
Interestingly, nothing in LBB123 says anything about the Scout Service belonging to any government, any more than do the Merchants.
Which Leads Me To Introduce, IMTU:
The INDEPENDENT INTERSTELLAR SCOUT SERVICE
The Scouts are an independent polity in the service of humanity, maintaning neutral communication links and supporting exploration. Their ultimate goal is to hold back the night: to prevent a new Dark Age from occurring.
They can be found, and serve, throughout human space and the Beyond. They are associated with no one government. They are a separate entity: they make treaty with individual worlds and empires, and to a greater or lesser extent are accepted as providing a vital service throughout human space. They provide communication via a network of couriers (long jump and short.) They explore frontiers of human space; they constantly re-survey known areas (that cr.10,000 jumpchart? A Scout probably made it.) Scout neutrality is a watchword; though in practice, it's a little difficult to maintain on the ground. Detached service scouts are a useful tool when actions that might be beneficial to interstellar humanity run afoul of the local polity.
The Scouts are financed from postal/communication charges both at the individual level and at the planetary/polity government level: by and large, having a scoutbase in your system is a boon worth maintaining.(The legendary Beowulf's distress call IMTU would be much more likely to be answered by an S-ship than a T.) They also receive a certain amount of revenue for navigation and the maintenance of local "Library" archives. Anyway, the heart of the Scout Service, the Scout/Courier, is cheap and easy to run. Detached duty scouts require no payroll, and no pension.
Scouts IMTU are renowned for their reliability and bravery. Look at LBB1 CharGen: they're resourceful (all that JOT) but straight-shooters (no crook skills consummate Spacers (all pilots, lots of spacer-type skills.) But a lot of them die - that's a tough survival roll for anyone without a lot of endurance.
IMTU, The Independent Interstellar Scout Service has for its logo a black circle, in which a hand grips a flaming torch, in gold. Motto: "We Part The Dark."
I've been cobbling together a strict LBB123 TU, and exploring the possibilities of a small-ship, small-empire TU. This has led me to a re-assessment of the Scout Service, going only by interpretation of what I find in LBB123, second edition.
I started from these points:
LBB3 does NOT assume a single Interstellar Government.
LBB3 system generation tends to produce many, many underpopulated and underdeveloped worlds, whose survival separate from an interstellar community would be far from assured. IMTU, this indicates some sort of dark age similar to the OTU Long Night.
In LBB3 subsector generation, scout bases tend to be widely distributed. Going by LBB1, these all welcome detached duty scouts for free fuel and board - so a widespread, single Scout service throughout human space.
Interestingly, nothing in LBB123 says anything about the Scout Service belonging to any government, any more than do the Merchants.
Which Leads Me To Introduce, IMTU:
The INDEPENDENT INTERSTELLAR SCOUT SERVICE
The Scouts are an independent polity in the service of humanity, maintaning neutral communication links and supporting exploration. Their ultimate goal is to hold back the night: to prevent a new Dark Age from occurring.
They can be found, and serve, throughout human space and the Beyond. They are associated with no one government. They are a separate entity: they make treaty with individual worlds and empires, and to a greater or lesser extent are accepted as providing a vital service throughout human space. They provide communication via a network of couriers (long jump and short.) They explore frontiers of human space; they constantly re-survey known areas (that cr.10,000 jumpchart? A Scout probably made it.) Scout neutrality is a watchword; though in practice, it's a little difficult to maintain on the ground. Detached service scouts are a useful tool when actions that might be beneficial to interstellar humanity run afoul of the local polity.
The Scouts are financed from postal/communication charges both at the individual level and at the planetary/polity government level: by and large, having a scoutbase in your system is a boon worth maintaining.(The legendary Beowulf's distress call IMTU would be much more likely to be answered by an S-ship than a T.) They also receive a certain amount of revenue for navigation and the maintenance of local "Library" archives. Anyway, the heart of the Scout Service, the Scout/Courier, is cheap and easy to run. Detached duty scouts require no payroll, and no pension.
Scouts IMTU are renowned for their reliability and bravery. Look at LBB1 CharGen: they're resourceful (all that JOT) but straight-shooters (no crook skills
consummate Spacers (all pilots, lots of spacer-type skills.) But a lot of them die - that's a tough survival roll for anyone without a lot of endurance. IMTU, The Independent Interstellar Scout Service has for its logo a black circle, in which a hand grips a flaming torch, in gold. Motto: "We Part The Dark."
I suppose that it depends on how Proto you want your Traveller to get. It's pretty clear that fairly early on GDW was developing an OTU to hang supplements on - if you just dip into the supporting material here and there, though, I think that what comes out is pretty refreshing. To me, anyhow.
First thing I did IMTU was make artificial grav units take as much volume/energy as the drive units. really tweaks my motor mount that traveller arti-grav is so much more like magic than science.
besides I like the idea of stacked ship decks or centrifuge for gravity generations. just waving it off that there are magical plates in the deck that creat gravity is ugh..
I like your ideas alot btw..
besides I like the idea of stacked ship decks or centrifuge for gravity generations. just waving it off that there are magical plates in the deck that creat gravity is ugh..
I like your ideas alot btw..
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