Proto-Traveller

[Jeffr0]

My objective with the premise is to go as far from the OTU "hemmed in"/"hamstrung" feeling as I can-- while at the same time, minimizing the amount of things a ref will feel like he "has to understand" before he can begin.

I'm looking more for Fear, Desperation, and the Unknown to be the watchwords of the campaign.

 

[Jame]

Here's a thought: the "generic" proto-Trav universe would have a Night, of varying length, and what's behind it generically is a former empire that humans created. History is sketchy, and at the most it's known that it came from Earth and eventually crumbled. The Imperium is still trying to consolidate, but the IISS is alternately active in exploration or consolidation depending on who the Director is and then who the Emperor is.

It is (only technically) hemmed in to coreward by the Zhodani and the Vargr, although the Zhos aren't that big and the Vargr aren't that cohesive or big - they're quite willing to let the Imperium go around. To trailing are some aliens with an interstellar state, but most people know only that something's there. To rim/spin are the Aslan, but they've got many of the same problems that the Vargr do. To coreward are lots of tiny states which are not even in the shape that the Imperium's in, and the Solomani Confederation is only the biggest of the small fry. Pushovers, essentially.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, let's not make the Solomani too small a fry. Otherwise, I like it.

 

[Jame]

So between a quadrant size and two to three sectors at most. Most, if not all, the bordering states within about half a sector except those to coreward are clients or affiliated. Either way, they have a good military and conquering them would drain the Imperium.

 

[far-trader]

OK, been away from following this thread for ages and I don't recall if it was mentioned. Has the suggestion for compressing the timeline been addressed?

A smaller charted space also works better if the thing is only centuries old rather than millenia. Not my idea and I don't know who to credit it to, but it does make a lot of sense and has been discussed on these boards iirc.

 

[Jame]

Dunno if the timeline change has been addressed, but it's a good idea.

Though having a (very) few worlds in strategic spots, such as Capital, Depots if there are any and the sector capitals at TL-15 would be useful - having a few dreadnoughts might be a good idea, although the could be very scarce and expensive in addition to being slllloooowwww (under Book 2, the largest ships can't do J-6 or 6-G). They're as much of a prestige thing as anything else, and could be kept in the interior as a reserve.

Other states, like the Zhos or Sollies, could have similarly high TLs and ships of similar size, which would mean that the Imperial fleet would get chewed itself while swallowing their opponents...

 

[clementk]

I was asked to post my views on Proto-Traveller.

While I like the idea of an Ur-Traveller, I also like too many bits, setting or rules-wise, from later Traveller works to be able to whole-heartedly embrace the concept. Much like with the "Back to Basics" movement of D&D grognards I do not find the "root core" viable. I do respect the dedication, knowledge, and Torah-like study and enjoy good stories of campaigns. I also do like that it opens up the 'verse again.

One of the strengths of Traveller for me is the ability to choose from so much source material. Lose that and I feel I'm better served by some other rules-set. In the end I'm just too much of a heretic. ;P

As always, YMMV.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Jeffr0:

(And if earth shows up at all in Traveller, I'd rather it be the home of intrepid underdog sorts as opposed to an Orwellian-Soviet style psycho-state.)

Just play up on the SolParty factionalism and expand it to SolSec and SolMilitary as well; you'll have something more democratic, almost multi-party, as centralism will be played down. And you'll still keep the architypical Solomani progressive spirit - as opposed to the Imperium's rabid conservativism.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Aramis:
I've been thinking... this could get dangerous...

If we go with a 1.5secotor Solomani Confed (trimming about 1 sector's worth) and the 8 sector imperium of the (page 3 of this topic) map, that means the Solomani are not just significant... they've been cut in half (not by a quarter), and it is clearly then a MAJOR threat.

If the SolCon is a major threat, I think that we should design their (LBB2) fleets - they only have a few ships in their Alien Module, which ISN'T ProtoTraveller btw - and building their pure LBB2 (or will it be CT+?) ships would be fun, especially with my Pro-Solomani attitude

On a similar note, how many Imperial LBB2 ships do we have?

Both navies need different doctrines to keep things interesting.

Oh, and when researching for this post, I've found that, when you consider anything printed prior to 1983 as belonging to the ProtoTraveller historic era:
- Solomani and Zhodani Alien Modules AREN'T PT (they are after 1983).
- Historically speaking, LBBs 1-6 all fall within the PT era - HG and Scouts included! Historically - but not in spirit.
- The Entire S-series of supplements is historically, and in some cases also in spirit, PT. The big exception in the "spirit" part is S7 - Fighting Ships, which is HG-centric. S10 - The Solomani Rim is from 1982, and includes mention of the Rule of Man, the Rim War, the SolCon and the SolParty (but not SolSec) as well as the Vegans.
- Striker is from 1981 and thus, historically, is PT; about the "spirit" part I do not know.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by robject:
Good question.

The interstellar lizard people, possibly extinct [from Shadows], and the Droyne?

Who says they're extinct?

 

[Golan2072]

It seems that the imperium was already supposed to be big back in 1979:

"The Imperium itself is a far-flung empire of 281 subsectors and over 11000 worlds."
- A1: The Kinunir, 1979

Also, the Fourth Frontier War wasn't supposed to be fought against the Zhodani back then:

"Battle of Two Suns, 1084: The final battle between Imperial forces and the
barbarians in the Fourth Frontier"
- A1: The Kinunir, 1979

 

[jrients]

Why couldn't the Zhodani be considered barbarians? Or maybe 'the barbarians' was another term for the Outworlds Coalition.

 

[Jame]

It strikes me that Books 4, 5, 6 and 7 have good CharGen use, even if you discard everything else.

 

[mike wightman]

The problem with extended character generation is that it disadvantages basic characters from Citizens of the Imperium.

The MT idea of a special duty roll, and an extra skill if you roll 4 or more higher than you need on certain character generation "tasks", makes for a much fairer way of balancing basic characters and extended.

But if you want to use CotI as is then you have to use basic LBB1 character generation too IMHO.

 

[Jame]

The idea of special duty sounds good, and is one reason I'd use MTCG if I ever ref again (I'd do something with that Cassian Subsector in that case). However, I'd do it by year instead of by term.

On a separate note, it strikes me that (presuming a TL 15 fleet or manufacturing capacity), that the following ship classes apply:

100 tons: cutter.
400 tons: corvette.
600-800 tons: frigate.
1000 tons: destroyer escort.
1500 tons: destroyer.
2000 tons: light cruiser.
3000 tons: battle cruiser.
4000 tons: battleship.
5000 tons: dreadnought.

Of course, this's why I'd want to be able to build 5000 ton ships at TL 9, and have TL 15 ships that size be capable of Jump-6.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
The MT idea of a special duty roll, and an extra skill if you roll 4 or more higher than you need on certain character generation "tasks", makes for a much fairer way of balancing basic characters and extended.

But if you want to use CotI as is then you have to use basic LBB1 character generation too IMHO.

You certainly need to be consistent.

On the other hand, adopting the MT chargen rules is perfectly valid Proto-Traveller - it's a house rule, and PT's all about house rules!

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Hi Guys,

This sounds interesting.

There are:

Milieu 0 (4th Ed.)
Milieu 200
Milieu Classic 1100 (1rst Ed.)
Milieu Rebellion 1110+ (3rd Ed.)

*** Where would proto-Traveller be? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Maksim-Smelchak:
Hi Guys,

This sounds interesting.

There are:

Milieu 0 (4th Ed.)
Milieu 200
Milieu Classic 1100 (1rst Ed.)
Milieu Rebellion 1110+ (3rd Ed.)

*** Where would proto-Traveller be? ***

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

Milieu Classic 1100 in date, but not exactly the same universe; a different version thereof.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Hi E-2-4601,

Thanks for the reply.

I say: Why not? We have GURPs Traveller and the Rebellion, why not one more alternate setting?

Neat idea! Thanks for sharing it!

Toda raba!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[binky]

Have just spent today reading through this thread and I have only one thing to say.... WOW!

There is some really great stuff here, enough to keep one's mind racing for weeks if not months.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go lie down

- Neil.