Proto-Traveller
- Thread starter Jeffr0
- Start date
Different people pursue "proto-Traveller" for different reasons. I, for once, do not intend to recreate an exact replica of the 1977-vintage Traveller, but rather to learn from the successes and mistakes of the past for the sake of the future - that is, I look at the PT material as a source of inspiration rather than a strict set of guidelines. PT is a theme - not a game, not even a true historical preiod (High Guard, for example, is excluded from PT even though it was released in 1980 and thus in the so-called "Proto-Traveller Period".
I agree completely.
Read up on the Forboldn Project library data entry in Adventure 1.
Or the Navy's use of interdiction.</font>[/QUOTE]I've just re-read the LBB4 "Unit Assignment" tables - and what did I found? That Counter-Insurgency and Internal Security are very common activities of Imperial (and local) military units; it means that insurgencies are common in the proto-Imperium, and so are major discipline problems in its military forces. And "Police Actions", another common activity of LBB4 militaries, either implies the use of military power to maintain/restore order, and/or a euphorism for messy interest-protection missions.
1977 vintage Traveller's going too far for me: possibly not, if some of my bugaboo gaps in the rules had been addressed before it hit press. For the purposes of experiment, I'm enjoying the discipline of only using non-LBB123 material where it tends to support the basic ruleset. It's resulted in a new approach to the game for me: less military, and more adventure, and for whatever reason, that's pleasing.
Finding new interpretations for the basic ruleset has been a blast.
Finding new interpretations for the basic ruleset has been a blast.
I've come up with my version of Proto-Traveller: semi-Proto-Traveller! Notes follow:
Some notes about semi-Proto-Traveller: it's somewhat larger (an extra 2-3 sectors plus a few more subsectors), more stable (the populace isn't restive except in places and the nobles generally try to be good), and the ships are larger (the largest actual ship ever built was 100000 tons, and the common large ships are 20000 to 30000 tons). However, the Imperium is starting to strain at the edges.
Some notes about semi-Proto-Traveller: it's somewhat larger (an extra 2-3 sectors plus a few more subsectors), more stable (the populace isn't restive except in places and the nobles generally try to be good), and the ships are larger (the largest actual ship ever built was 100000 tons, and the common large ships are 20000 to 30000 tons). However, the Imperium is starting to strain at the edges.
I'm firmly convinced that, if I ever run Traveller again, it's going to be T20 designs*, a Proto-traveller universe, and MT combat & CGen rules (including vehicular). Possibly with T4 psionics.
*T20, or HG for that matter, can be fixed to a small ship universe by simply limiting hull sizes by TL:
7: 100Td
8: 200Td
9: 400Td
A: 800Td
B: 1300Td (or 1600)
C: 2000Td (or 2400)
D: 3000Td (or 3200)
E: 4000Td
F: 5000Td
G: 6000Td
H: 7000Td
*T20, or HG for that matter, can be fixed to a small ship universe by simply limiting hull sizes by TL:
7: 100Td
8: 200Td
9: 400Td
A: 800Td
B: 1300Td (or 1600)
C: 2000Td (or 2400)
D: 3000Td (or 3200)
E: 4000Td
F: 5000Td
G: 6000Td
H: 7000Td
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
I love the idea of Proto-Traveller. Y'all might also look to late 1970s Traveller supplements from 3rd parties like Paranoia Press and Judges Guild.
My campaign is not Proto-Traveller, but pretty darned close.
At the very least, it's 1950s retro-grungy tech. The bottom line is that things in my campaign are *dangerous*. This is not Star Trek the Wimp Generation with its touch panel displays, cruise ship decor and doors that go swish. Rather, it’s buttons, bulkheads, and hatches with wheels in the center.
Indeed, Classic Traveller always seemed to me to be basically “now, only in space.” As I get older, I find that more charming than I might have in the past.
I may reconsider my campaign based on the ideas in this thread, but here are some highlights as the campaign currently exists:
1. Power Plant – no fusion power plants. Power plants are usually atomic piles (not “nuclear reactors”). If older FTL drives are used, power can be the familiar diesel, turbine, gasoline or hydrogen fuel cells. Turns out that "fossil fuels" are created by geologic processes, so oil, natural gas, coal, etc. exists on some other planets.
2. Maneuver Drive -- no inertialess drives in my campaign! Currently, I am postulating some kind of Nuclear Thermal Rocket powered by an atomic pile (not "nuclear reactor"). The reaction mass is hydrogen if skimmed from gas giants, methane if purchased. A ship can carry 8 times more methane due to its higher density. So “wilderness fueling” is done only if absolutely necessary. Methane has an entertaining side effect -- it clogs the reactor works (including the fuel rods). So, liquid oxygen must be periodically piped in to clean the fuel rods, or power drops. In one adventure, the cleaning system was disabled, so a crewman had to enter the drive (turned off of course) and clean the rods with a high tech Brillo pad. Fun stuff. The Handwavium-5 Filtration system keeps the drive from spewing radioactive particles.
3. Jump Drive – I’ve always liked the Mannchenn Drive from A. Bertram Chandler’s books, so I lifted it for my campaigns. Essentially, it’s a giant mass of gyroscopes that “move a ship backwards in time as the ship moves to its destination”. This allows a ship to travel at FTL velocities. The neat things about it are (a) it’s a fiercely *mechanical* device; (b) its has a hyponotizing effect on people, which makes them susceptible to getting too close to it; (c) it will turn someone inside out if they fall into it. It’s also sensitive to metals and even plastics that are too close, so safety rails are minimal. Generally, engineers attach themselves to the bulkheads by cables, in case they get the “drive stares”. Since a ship still needs to be able to move in realspace, it needs both maneuver and FTL drives. Mannschenn drives are rated from 1 to 3; multiply by the ship’s maneuver drive rating to get the speed in parsecs per week (maximum of 6).
4. Low Tech Jump Drive. Again, lifted from A. Bertram Chandler. The Gauss FTL drive was the first FTL drive. It used magnetic lines of force to propel ships to FTL speeds as high as 1 parsec per month. The only problem was that a ship would be thrown *badly* off course (1-100 parsecs; roll d100) if it encountered a magnetic storm. The good news was that ships tended to wind up within 1-2 parsecs of a star. The bad news is that the magnetic storm usually wrecked the atomic pile. The ship would then be forced to use backup diesel generators and chemical rocket thrusters to power the Gauss Drive. A ship limping along like this would take as long as a year to travel 1 parsec. Crew and passengers would take to the cold berths and hope to find a habitable system before starving or suffering mechanical failure. The result is a large number of “Lost Colonies”. Magnetic storms are fairly rare (1% chance per parsec traveled) and have little effect on non-Gauss FTL ships.
5. Weaponry is Traveller TL 10 or less. No gauss or plasma/fusion weapons. At higher tech levels, weaponry gets modest improvements.
6. No Imperium. The sector has been colonized by the Anglian Commonwealth, a constitutional monarchy very similar to 18th century Britain. The current Empress is Katherine IV. A bicameral Parliament, consisting of a House of Representatives and the House of Lords (occupied by nobility). Per classic sci-fi, feudal systems arose during the Long Night. In the Anglian Commonwealth, feudalism is slowly evolving into representative democracy. A variety of other powers exist, modeled after Terran cultures. The main bad guys are the People’s Democratic Assembly, a Stalinist-Maoist interstellar empire. Think Orwell’s Oceana/Eurasia/Eastasia in an interstellar setting.
7. Less Computer Tech. Something Really Bad happened on Terra that caused the Long Night. It involved computers (theories range from a Terminator-style war to a simple global malfunction), so current humans have a strong cultural aversion to computers, reinforced by religious prohibitions like “Do not make a machine in the image of a human mind” (Zen Christianic Bible, 3rd Ed., Austral, 722, Prophets 2:124). Computer tech isn’t much more advanced than today, and computers are a bit less common. Nanotech doesn’t exist. Cybernetics aren’t much more advanced than now. Cloning and genetic engineering isn’t much more advanced than today. However, the existence of many genetically engineered lifeforms indicated that Terra once had considerably greater capabilities in this area.
8. No Aliens. In fact, no non-Terran life has been discovered at all. There are exotic lifeforms out there, but these are all genetically engineered from Terran life. The general lack of artificial gravity has resulted in humans adapting considerably to their environments.
9. No Environmentalists. Well, that’s not entirely true, but it’s close. Known Space has little respect for “the environment”. Nor is “nature” idealized. In this universe, most planets are less than optimized for human beings and “nature” is an ever-present foe. Greenpeace and PETA don’t exist here. Planets have been radically terraformed without regard to notions of “preserving nature”.
10. Far Less Luxury. This is a harder place. It is technologically advanced, but the fact is that life is hard for 99% of the people out there. Planets have been terraformed, but this usually results in a world that is less than ideally suited for human life. Few “garden planets” exist. The lack of luxury means that a lot of things we take for granted, simply don’t exist. For instance, the notion of “strict products liability” has been lost to the mists of time. This means far fewer lawyers. The general rules are caveat emptor and assumption of risk. If your gun malfunctions, you may be able to sue and get the gun replaced, but you will *not* get a million credits, even if you were badly hurt. A harder life means that many familiar causes simply don’t exist in the Commonwealth -- animal rights, environmentalism, the Americans with Disabilities Act, etc. To subtly make the point that times are tough, I divided all monetary amounts by 20. Suddenly, cr100 becomes a lot of money. YMMV.
11. Limited Artificial Gravity – Originally, I wanted *no* artificial gravity. I intended to use “stacked” decked ships that used acceleration to mimic gravity. However, I’ve had to compromise on this, since most third party deckplans use the more familiar “airliner” arrangement. So, I postulate artificial gravity that works whenever a ship is more than 100 planetary diameters away. At closer distances, antigravity is less effective (1% per planetary diameter). This means that antigrav systems are *not* possible on a planet’s surface. So transportation is by other means – automobiles, hovercraft, tracked vehicle, helicopters, tiltrotor craft, ornithopters, autogiros, and airships. Especially airships…
Not exactly Proto-Traveller, but certainly close in feel.
My campaign is not Proto-Traveller, but pretty darned close.
At the very least, it's 1950s retro-grungy tech. The bottom line is that things in my campaign are *dangerous*. This is not Star Trek the Wimp Generation with its touch panel displays, cruise ship decor and doors that go swish. Rather, it’s buttons, bulkheads, and hatches with wheels in the center.
Indeed, Classic Traveller always seemed to me to be basically “now, only in space.” As I get older, I find that more charming than I might have in the past.
I may reconsider my campaign based on the ideas in this thread, but here are some highlights as the campaign currently exists:
1. Power Plant – no fusion power plants. Power plants are usually atomic piles (not “nuclear reactors”). If older FTL drives are used, power can be the familiar diesel, turbine, gasoline or hydrogen fuel cells. Turns out that "fossil fuels" are created by geologic processes, so oil, natural gas, coal, etc. exists on some other planets.
2. Maneuver Drive -- no inertialess drives in my campaign! Currently, I am postulating some kind of Nuclear Thermal Rocket powered by an atomic pile (not "nuclear reactor"). The reaction mass is hydrogen if skimmed from gas giants, methane if purchased. A ship can carry 8 times more methane due to its higher density. So “wilderness fueling” is done only if absolutely necessary. Methane has an entertaining side effect -- it clogs the reactor works (including the fuel rods). So, liquid oxygen must be periodically piped in to clean the fuel rods, or power drops. In one adventure, the cleaning system was disabled, so a crewman had to enter the drive (turned off of course) and clean the rods with a high tech Brillo pad. Fun stuff. The Handwavium-5 Filtration system keeps the drive from spewing radioactive particles.
3. Jump Drive – I’ve always liked the Mannchenn Drive from A. Bertram Chandler’s books, so I lifted it for my campaigns. Essentially, it’s a giant mass of gyroscopes that “move a ship backwards in time as the ship moves to its destination”. This allows a ship to travel at FTL velocities. The neat things about it are (a) it’s a fiercely *mechanical* device; (b) its has a hyponotizing effect on people, which makes them susceptible to getting too close to it; (c) it will turn someone inside out if they fall into it. It’s also sensitive to metals and even plastics that are too close, so safety rails are minimal. Generally, engineers attach themselves to the bulkheads by cables, in case they get the “drive stares”. Since a ship still needs to be able to move in realspace, it needs both maneuver and FTL drives. Mannschenn drives are rated from 1 to 3; multiply by the ship’s maneuver drive rating to get the speed in parsecs per week (maximum of 6).
4. Low Tech Jump Drive. Again, lifted from A. Bertram Chandler. The Gauss FTL drive was the first FTL drive. It used magnetic lines of force to propel ships to FTL speeds as high as 1 parsec per month. The only problem was that a ship would be thrown *badly* off course (1-100 parsecs; roll d100) if it encountered a magnetic storm. The good news was that ships tended to wind up within 1-2 parsecs of a star. The bad news is that the magnetic storm usually wrecked the atomic pile. The ship would then be forced to use backup diesel generators and chemical rocket thrusters to power the Gauss Drive. A ship limping along like this would take as long as a year to travel 1 parsec. Crew and passengers would take to the cold berths and hope to find a habitable system before starving or suffering mechanical failure. The result is a large number of “Lost Colonies”. Magnetic storms are fairly rare (1% chance per parsec traveled) and have little effect on non-Gauss FTL ships.
5. Weaponry is Traveller TL 10 or less. No gauss or plasma/fusion weapons. At higher tech levels, weaponry gets modest improvements.
6. No Imperium. The sector has been colonized by the Anglian Commonwealth, a constitutional monarchy very similar to 18th century Britain. The current Empress is Katherine IV. A bicameral Parliament, consisting of a House of Representatives and the House of Lords (occupied by nobility). Per classic sci-fi, feudal systems arose during the Long Night. In the Anglian Commonwealth, feudalism is slowly evolving into representative democracy. A variety of other powers exist, modeled after Terran cultures. The main bad guys are the People’s Democratic Assembly, a Stalinist-Maoist interstellar empire. Think Orwell’s Oceana/Eurasia/Eastasia in an interstellar setting.
7. Less Computer Tech. Something Really Bad happened on Terra that caused the Long Night. It involved computers (theories range from a Terminator-style war to a simple global malfunction), so current humans have a strong cultural aversion to computers, reinforced by religious prohibitions like “Do not make a machine in the image of a human mind” (Zen Christianic Bible, 3rd Ed., Austral, 722, Prophets 2:124). Computer tech isn’t much more advanced than today, and computers are a bit less common. Nanotech doesn’t exist. Cybernetics aren’t much more advanced than now. Cloning and genetic engineering isn’t much more advanced than today. However, the existence of many genetically engineered lifeforms indicated that Terra once had considerably greater capabilities in this area.
8. No Aliens. In fact, no non-Terran life has been discovered at all. There are exotic lifeforms out there, but these are all genetically engineered from Terran life. The general lack of artificial gravity has resulted in humans adapting considerably to their environments.
9. No Environmentalists. Well, that’s not entirely true, but it’s close. Known Space has little respect for “the environment”. Nor is “nature” idealized. In this universe, most planets are less than optimized for human beings and “nature” is an ever-present foe. Greenpeace and PETA don’t exist here. Planets have been radically terraformed without regard to notions of “preserving nature”.
10. Far Less Luxury. This is a harder place. It is technologically advanced, but the fact is that life is hard for 99% of the people out there. Planets have been terraformed, but this usually results in a world that is less than ideally suited for human life. Few “garden planets” exist. The lack of luxury means that a lot of things we take for granted, simply don’t exist. For instance, the notion of “strict products liability” has been lost to the mists of time. This means far fewer lawyers. The general rules are caveat emptor and assumption of risk. If your gun malfunctions, you may be able to sue and get the gun replaced, but you will *not* get a million credits, even if you were badly hurt. A harder life means that many familiar causes simply don’t exist in the Commonwealth -- animal rights, environmentalism, the Americans with Disabilities Act, etc. To subtly make the point that times are tough, I divided all monetary amounts by 20. Suddenly, cr100 becomes a lot of money. YMMV.
11. Limited Artificial Gravity – Originally, I wanted *no* artificial gravity. I intended to use “stacked” decked ships that used acceleration to mimic gravity. However, I’ve had to compromise on this, since most third party deckplans use the more familiar “airliner” arrangement. So, I postulate artificial gravity that works whenever a ship is more than 100 planetary diameters away. At closer distances, antigravity is less effective (1% per planetary diameter). This means that antigrav systems are *not* possible on a planet’s surface. So transportation is by other means – automobiles, hovercraft, tracked vehicle, helicopters, tiltrotor craft, ornithopters, autogiros, and airships. Especially airships…
Not exactly Proto-Traveller, but certainly close in feel.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
You should've seen the expression on the face of the guy who had to go into the atomic drive and scrub carbon off the fuel rods with a Brillo pad. Priceless...
michaeltaylor
SOC-5
michaeltaylor
SOC-5
Using Mayday in Proto-Traveller
I just looked into this actually. It seems pretty easy to replace Mayday's Three-Counter Vector system with Full Thrust's vector based system (you simpy make half your vector changes in the beginning of your move and the reset half-way through your move).
Should work fine!'
And what's Ken Pick's "sensor rule shorcut"? Thanks!
I just looked into this actually. It seems pretty easy to replace Mayday's Three-Counter Vector system with Full Thrust's vector based system (you simpy make half your vector changes in the beginning of your move and the reset half-way through your move).
Should work fine!'
And what's Ken Pick's "sensor rule shorcut"? Thanks!
A loooong time ago... I haven't had comcast for years! (I wonder if I still have that file?)
I do still have the "small imperium" sector files, but I think the PDFs went away.
michaeltaylor
SOC-5
michaeltaylor
SOC-5
Proto-Traveller Worlds
I like that idea a LOT! I have always wanted more Tarus'-like modules than than the typical adventures.
And I always hated buying a Traveller adventure to read it and find out it was set 10 parsecs away from my current campaign.
So maybe we 'move' other Traveller adventures into the Spinward Marches where they might actually be used!
Easy, X-Boats simply connect only to Starport-C's (or A's or X's or whereever) but some kind of standard where they dont even have to be mapped.
I like that idea a LOT! I have always wanted more Tarus'-like modules than than the typical adventures.
And I always hated buying a Traveller adventure to read it and find out it was set 10 parsecs away from my current campaign.
So maybe we 'move' other Traveller adventures into the Spinward Marches where they might actually be used!
Easy, X-Boats simply connect only to Starport-C's (or A's or X's or whereever) but some kind of standard where they dont even have to be mapped.
Anyway, here's the "compressed" sectors of the Proto Imperium.
Note the Spinward Marches is largely intact. The remaining sectors have been compressed into quadrants.
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/survey/Imperium.small.sec2
Jeffr0 said:
Mike Wightman said:
Whipsnade said:
me said:
Aramis said:
plop101 said:
Oz said:
flynn said:
I like all this. I vote this as the basis for Proto-Traveller.
Last edited:
I like it too, but I would:
Make the Solomani Rim at least half a sector
Add in a sector's worth of subsectors to the Imperium
Allow for High Guard-style percentage-based drives
Allow for Golan's LBB2 Expanded
Reduce some of the TL requirements for some of that stuff
Put in the Judges Guild stuff
I'm sure there's a bit more but I can't think of it.
Oh yes, I have the Cassian Subsector, and am generating another subsector; this can be added if you like.
Make the Solomani Rim at least half a sector
Add in a sector's worth of subsectors to the Imperium
Allow for High Guard-style percentage-based drives
Allow for Golan's LBB2 Expanded
Reduce some of the TL requirements for some of that stuff
Put in the Judges Guild stuff
I'm sure there's a bit more but I can't think of it.
Oh yes, I have the Cassian Subsector, and am generating another subsector; this can be added if you like.
Love this thread YAY proto-Traveller!
One of the best things i like(d) about the LBB1-3 are those sweet spot standard drives in book 2 that allow greater J than would otherwise be possible by TL alone.
Like i figure the Imp XBoats are TL9 ships w/ J3, TLA w/J4. IMTU i tend to allow that book 5 mix n match stuff, hull configurations, /fib computers, and HG drives. Like a 100t s/c w/ a TLD P2, now you get a dual J2 s/c say.
A lot of good stuff in the T4, Milieu 0, esp Pocket Empires. Ostensibly this is the Imperium at the beginning, TL C cap, Imperium size: 19 worlds, *total*! There was an extremely interesting text box in the melieu 0 about the kinds of worlds found, talking about barren/dead worlds, then typical population size by TL through the long night survival, i wish the world gen in LBB3 synched up with that more.
One *has* to include like the flamethrowers by Omer "Employee #2-4601" Golan in Stellar reaches Spr '07 Issue #7 pp27...
I imagine a LBB2, and supplement (7?) Traders and gunboats, getting actual legal archetypical ships. I'd have it include the other book with the wet navies and belters, same for those ships holds true.
Updating the skill tables, not the gen process might be interesting too, to incluse say ED 8+ Army to include Instruction, or recruiting or whatever. I'd always thought say you were a merchant, a merchant company might train people for different skills than the table gens. or say you're planetary army from a vacc world: you'd have vacc suit, stuff like that, some formal balancing could be interesting, people could create new careers that would balance in the game system maybe. Admin, Liason, Street used in the trade tables a must by my mind.
Any interstellar polity in *any* age wther independant, other major (or minor even maybe!) race, or Imperial should have a set of ships minimum:
SCOUT/POSTAL UNION
MERCHANT/SUBSIDIZED M.
NAVAL
ala IMPERIUM:
SCOUTS:
(J/M/P)
100t 2/2/2 S Scout/Courier
100t 4/0/4 Xboat
400t 3/2/3 (?) Survey
1000t 1/1/1 XBoat Tender
MERCHANT:
200t 1/1/1 Free trader
200t 2/1/2 Far Trader
400t 1/1/1 Fat Trader
600t 3/1/3 Subd'. Liner
NAVY
10t 6/0/6 Fighter
400t 3/4/4 T Patrol cruiser
400t 4/4/5 (?) CE Close Escort
800t 3/3/3 C Mercenary Cruiser
A set for each, 2 "light" ships, one "medium", and one "heavy", additional as desired.
One of the best things i like(d) about the LBB1-3 are those sweet spot standard drives in book 2 that allow greater J than would otherwise be possible by TL alone.
Like i figure the Imp XBoats are TL9 ships w/ J3, TLA w/J4. IMTU i tend to allow that book 5 mix n match stuff, hull configurations, /fib computers, and HG drives. Like a 100t s/c w/ a TLD P2, now you get a dual J2 s/c say.
A lot of good stuff in the T4, Milieu 0, esp Pocket Empires. Ostensibly this is the Imperium at the beginning, TL C cap, Imperium size: 19 worlds, *total*! There was an extremely interesting text box in the melieu 0 about the kinds of worlds found, talking about barren/dead worlds, then typical population size by TL through the long night survival, i wish the world gen in LBB3 synched up with that more.
One *has* to include like the flamethrowers by Omer "Employee #2-4601" Golan in Stellar reaches Spr '07 Issue #7 pp27...
I imagine a LBB2, and supplement (7?) Traders and gunboats, getting actual legal archetypical ships. I'd have it include the other book with the wet navies and belters, same for those ships holds true.
Updating the skill tables, not the gen process might be interesting too, to incluse say ED 8+ Army to include Instruction, or recruiting or whatever. I'd always thought say you were a merchant, a merchant company might train people for different skills than the table gens. or say you're planetary army from a vacc world: you'd have vacc suit, stuff like that, some formal balancing could be interesting, people could create new careers that would balance in the game system maybe. Admin, Liason, Street used in the trade tables a must by my mind.
Any interstellar polity in *any* age wther independant, other major (or minor even maybe!) race, or Imperial should have a set of ships minimum:
SCOUT/POSTAL UNION
MERCHANT/SUBSIDIZED M.
NAVAL
ala IMPERIUM:
SCOUTS:
(J/M/P)
100t 2/2/2 S Scout/Courier
100t 4/0/4 Xboat
400t 3/2/3 (?) Survey
1000t 1/1/1 XBoat Tender
MERCHANT:
200t 1/1/1 Free trader
200t 2/1/2 Far Trader
400t 1/1/1 Fat Trader
600t 3/1/3 Subd'. Liner
NAVY
10t 6/0/6 Fighter
400t 3/4/4 T Patrol cruiser
400t 4/4/5 (?) CE Close Escort
800t 3/3/3 C Mercenary Cruiser
A set for each, 2 "light" ships, one "medium", and one "heavy", additional as desired.
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