CT Only: PTL - Personal Tech Level

[Supplement Four]

Aramis museum currently has an exhibit extoling the virtues of TL15 Imperial technology up to and including a TL15 meson spinal.

Are you suggesting that the population of Aramis have no knowledge of TL15 science, engineering and technology despite Imperial 'text books' being available, despite there being a TL15 IN base etc?

Not at all.

Aramis is TL 11.

Effective Range is two levels, up or down. That's 9-13.

EDU can increase effective range if it is higher than homeworld TL. But, barring that, Skill always increases effective range.

Anybody with Engineering-2 or Mechanics-2 would have an effective range of 7-15 and can understand the cutting edge TL 15 systems of the Meson Gun.

This is also how people at the Starport work on TL 15 vessels. They are either highly educated (thus, increased effective range) or they are highly skilled (Skill-2 or higher to work on the TL 15 stuff).

 

[mike wightman]

That's quite a neat way to do it.

 

[Supplement Four]

That's quite a neat way to do it.

Thanks man!


Jury is still out, but that's the direction I'm thinking after I was introduced to MT's rule. The above is a bastardization of that rule to fit my taste and CT.

 

[whartung]

Some people thinks opposite: the higher the TL, the more user friendly stuff is.

Man, I don't know about that.

Have you tried to use the internet recently? Ever have problems getting your car to boot up?

Boy howdy.

 

[BlackBat242]

Some people thinks opposite: the higher the TL, the more user friendly stuff is.

Man, I don't know about that.

Have you tried to use the internet recently? Ever have problems getting your car to boot up?

Boy howdy.

And which user?
There are many things which are advertised as "user interface is very intuitive, and easy to learn" - but that is only true if you are experienced with a certain way of thinking about symbols, inputs, etc.

I find a keyboard-operated list-driven system to be far easier to use than a touch-screen icon-driven system.

 

[nobby-w]

Some people thinks opposite: the higher the TL, the more user friendly stuff is.
[ . . . ]

I think that a linear notion of technological progress isn't all that useful a metaphor. Computer technology has been allowed to get a lot more complex by larger memory capacity in computers. From that perspective, making computers easy to use is harder as you have more complexity to hide behind your UI.

For example, 40 years ago, making a telephone call on a rotary dial phone was a straightforward and reliable procedure. The underlying mechanism was (from a user perspective) relatively straightforward and had relatively few failure modes that weren't directly connected to a malfunction in the equipment.

The other day, my phone stopped doing voice in phone calls. I had to do an operating system upgrade to get back core functionality in the phone. Figuring out how to do that took the better part of an evening and likely would be beyond the technical skills of most people. Phone calls are now an app running in a complex consumer-level user space, and subject to all the failure modes that can be driven by complex software interactions in that type of environment. Granted I can now use messaging apps, roll dice on my phone and play Plants vs. Zombies, but so much for five nines.

In addition, I'm now expected to be constantly available to answer the phone, and it's viewed as odd if I don't call back quickly. Is this really progress? One might say that's a matter of opinion.

 

[coliver988]

And which user?
There are many things which are advertised as "user interface is very intuitive, and easy to learn" - but that is only true if you are experienced with a certain way of thinking about symbols, inputs, etc.

I find a keyboard-operated list-driven system to be far easier to use than a touch-screen icon-driven system.

Exactly: I was given an iPad and had no idea how to use it. 2 finger swipe means one thing, 3 fingers another, 4 yet another. Good luck in getting all 4 fingers to stay in contact across that.

Then I've a Win10 tablet. Same thing - swipe from left, or top, or right, or bottom...

Spend enough time with any of them and yes, it does get easier and, dare I say, intuitive. But I would never call any of them intuitive out of the box.

As mentioned earlier: the web has gotten a LOT more complicated. Used to be you wrote some HTML, and done. You could view the source of pages and see how things worked and do it yourself. Now you have a stack of frameworks, languages, and other stuff. While the web does do a lot more now, it is honestly straining to do more.

However: I do recall some book I read where it mentioned that most races go through a complicated stage before they return to the easy understanding. That is, we go from simple myths to explain things such as a tree. Then science comes long, and we get chemical processes, photosynthesis, a myriad of details that few understand. Eventually all that gets internalized somehow and we're back to understanding a tree as a tree, yet also have an understanding of all the processes that go on.

We are in a truly "let's make things complicated" stage of existence.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's change approach.

Should there be a minimum TL, in general, for Traveller characters?




When a Ref is selecting homeworlds for the PCs, should there be a minimum TL for that world in order for the character to grow up to be in that special class of people, Travellers?

All the other worlds are color. They are places to visit. Collectively, they make up the universe.

But, the Travellers--those people out in space--they come from...hmm...what? A minimum TL A world?




I say "general" above because, sure, there are exceptions. There's the bloke from a TL 5 world who stowed away on a tramp freighter. And, there's the TL 7 person who fell into a job at the local Class A Starport and spent years there learning the new tech.

 

[Supplement Four]

And...what about the Imperial Navy?



Are they going to accept some kid from TL 4 Pysadi where the local gravity is 0.5 G standard? Are they going to take the time to educate and train him, at huge expense, until he is ready to be useful in the TL 15 Imperial Navy?

And, are they going to skip over this guy when operations are needed on standard 1G worlds? Will he have to crew with others from Size 4 worlds, where the captain keeps the G-plates at 0.5 G?



More likely, I think the IN will be selective about where their recruits come from. There's probably a TL requirement and a local gravity requirement.



A Ref should probably consider TL and local G when selecting homeworlds for PC's too.



All of this narrows down the Traveller class, too. The people in space are the ones from the higher tech worlds where local G is close to 1G.




NPC's

Ref's should probably consider this, too, when creating NPCs. In the Aramis subsector, Pysadians are not likely to leave their world. If they do, they've got G problems to worry about, TL problems--not to mention their extreme religion.

Looking at a subsector, Ref's can pick out the more likely people met in space. It's a smaller universe than originally thought.

 

[Enoki]

And...what about the Imperial Navy?



Are they going to accept some kid from TL 4 Pysadi where the local gravity is 0.5 G standard? Are they going to take the time to educate and train him, at huge expense, until he is ready to be useful in the TL 15 Imperial Navy?

And, are they going to skip over this guy when operations are needed on standard 1G worlds? Will he have to crew with others from Size 4 worlds, where the captain keeps the G-plates at 0.5 G?

More likely, I think the IN will be selective about where their recruits come from. There's probably a TL requirement and a local gravity requirement.

A Ref should probably consider TL and local G when selecting homeworlds for PC's too.

All of this narrows down the Traveller class, too. The people in space are the ones from the higher tech worlds where local G is close to 1G.


NPC's

Ref's should probably consider this, too, when creating NPCs. In the Aramis subsector, Pysadians are not likely to leave their world. If they do, they've got G problems to worry about, TL problems--not to mention their extreme religion.

Looking at a subsector, Ref's can pick out the more likely people met in space. It's a smaller universe than originally thought.

I would think the Imperial Navy, Army, whatever, would have entrance exams-- a written one, a medical one, and possibly interviews, and other requirements. They probably wouldn't care that someone wanting to enlist has never seen tech x, y, or z so much as they possess sufficient education and ability to learn that they can be sent to a crash course on that technology and combine that with OJT. That's how every military on the planet works today.

In fact, some recruit from backwater or second tier nations, like the British taking Gurkhas or the US Navy Filipinos. They just set the standard high and are selective taking only the best.

Given the size of the Imperial forces, and the variability of the physical qualities of worlds, I'd think there is some degree of putting recruited individuals into the equivalent of "stomach" battalions and the like where their physical limitations are taken into account. I'd think that having some ships in the Imperial Navy that are low G would be useful. "We need a boarding party for ZG combat. The crew of the Waayrafara is low G. Assemble a boarding party..." If these guys were all from low G low atmosphere or vacuum worlds they'd be at an advantage for such a mission.

 

[kilemall]

I sidestep all this with the concept of familiarity.
Whatever you work with, you know.

So if you have Engineering-2, you could have worked Subsector Navy and know TL12 HG drives/plants. Or if a Free Trader, CT letter drives particularly on the lower end. Or IN TL15 drives. Depends on what the character did.

Came up with this for the skill collapse concept, particularly Gun Combat. I didn't want to lose the idea of the CT muscle memory of individual weapon handling characteristics, but don't like the Rifle-1 SMG-2 Laser-3, nor the broad LBB4 categories.
So I just give characters Gun Combat/Blade/Bow Combat to whatever level they roll, then let them determine what they are familiar with later.
Then I have them most familiar with one weapon, and one down for each skill level. The idea is that there is an overall skill and at higher levels they can perform well, but they are up to speed only on what they regularly use/carry/train on and can use their expertise to quickly learn other weapons.

So Gun Combat-3 could translate to ACR-3 Laser Rifle-2 Snub Pistol-1. If the character takes to carrying and using shotguns all the time, it would go Shotgun-3 ACR-2 Laser Rifle-1.


Similar example, Engineering-2 could be IN HG drives TL15-2, SubsectorNav TL12-1.
Then the engineer is mustered out and falls in with tramp freighting. He starts out with Engineering-0 on CT Letter drives, but learns the ropes and eventually gains a similar Engineering-2 familiarity with those types, at the expense of getting rusty with the TL15 drives at Engineering-1 and Engineering-0 for everything else.

This mechanic gives you a sense of character change and achievement, something for the people who are itchy about the long CT skill acquire times, and makes them colorful and a mixed bag PTL wise.
I'd use the LBB4+ Instruction mechanic except no need for an instructor, start with a roll for skill-0 and work your way up as the character becomes more familiar and can use their skill to the fullest.

 

[Condottiere]

Scholarships, apprenticeships, sponsorships, patronage, can easily lift an individual from deprived circumstances, whether poverty or internetless, to a position where they can be educated to an interstellar standard or exposed to an interstellar culture in a controlled environment.

This can be done through the agency of a religious institution, government, mercantile concern, and/or criminal organization, having shown promise of some intellectual and/or physical characteristic that would be exploited in the future.

Outside of that, that's why you have the Barbarian career.

 

[kilemall]

Scholarships, apprenticeships, sponsorships, patronage, can easily lift an individual from deprived circumstances, whether poverty or internetless, to a position where they can be educated to an interstellar standard or exposed to an interstellar culture in a controlled environment.

This can be done through the agency of a religious institution, government, mercantile concern, and/or criminal organization, having shown promise of some intellectual and/or physical characteristic that would be exploited in the future.

Outside of that, that's why you have the Barbarian career.

Perhaps a more drastic homeworld EDU mod would be to cap the potential starting EDU to TL?

 

[McPerth]

Perhaps a more drastic homeworld EDU mod would be to cap the potential starting EDU to TL?

So, Leonardo da Vinci or Newton would have EDU 3 and Seneca, Pitagoras or Platon EDU 1 (just to give you some examples)?

And what if TL is 0 (as a stat may not be 0)?

 

[McPerth]

One related thing I always used is not to usually allow any carácter to adquiere skills of higher TL tan the one in the career he was serving.

So, to give an example, an Army member in a pre-stellar (to use MT terms, as MT gave a homworld to each player), as it represents TL 7-8, could not learn Hi energy weapons as gun combat, nor grav vehicles as vehicle.

If leared in Special Duty, I allowed those higher TL skills, as they represented (as I interpreted it) some cross training with highr TL forces (as the Huscarles in Regina, again to give you an example).

 

[kilemall]

In the case of low TL geniuses, they may indeed be brilliant and by the standards of their planet be EDU A+, but ultimately they are vastly ignorant about general knowledge an average primary school student knows. They also have substandard communications and storage- with each TL we get better and better tools for gaining and accessing information.


What they would have is intelligence, and skill. For instance I would say Da Vinci is at least INT B and Mechanical-5, arguably Mechanical-6.


He just won't be using iridium gears.



However, I would be against a positive mode for higher TL EDU- people can of course come out ignorant even with more information, and I think you want things like horrible 10 billion person slum planets with a lot of abandoned EDU 2 children.

 

[Supplement Four]

However, I would be against a positive mode for higher TL EDU-

I kinda like the idea of having it skill based, though. If a character is from a TL A world, and he has Engineering-2, then the character is educated at TL A.

But, as far as Engineering goes--where his interest and experience lies--he is comfortable with TL B or even TL C engineering devices.

 

[Condottiere]

Exposure and the ability to learn and digest that new information.

 

[whartung]

In the case of low TL geniuses, they may indeed be brilliant and by the standards of their planet be EDU A+, but ultimately they are vastly ignorant about general knowledge an average primary school student knows.

You mean that the character with INT 13, EDU 10, Alchemy-3, Witch Law-1, Aether Studies-1, and Bloodletting-2 may not quite find a place in a higher tech society?

 

[Garnfellow]

I dunno -- I think people are vastly overestimating the disadvantage citizens from a low TL homeworld would have in an interstellar society like the Imperium. Unless the homeworld is interdicted, if there's at least a class D starport onworld they are probably going to have a basic understanding of the Imperium and higher tech levels.

I would not be surprised if the Imperium actively attempts to engage lower tech worlds in interstellar society. Each of these worlds represent a potential market and source of valuable resources. So maybe the Imperium goes out of its way to recruit and educate these citizens for roles in the military and bureaucracy? Who doesn't love to hear rags-to-riches stories of destitute kids from low tech worlds rising to fame and fortune in service to the Emperor?

I would also contend that Edu means less and less the higher the TL. As TL increases, the complexity and size of the information increases exponentially, creating more and more specialization. Any one individual can only know less and less of the total body of knowledge. And paradoxically, tech becomes easier and easier to use even as it becomes more complex.

On a TL0 world cut off from interstellar society, Edu 12 might mean you know a lot about everything; you've read the primary sources for all major fields of inquiry. On a TL15 world, Edu 12 might mean you know a lot about one specific sub-specialty of a specialty of a sub-discipline; everything else you know comes from secondary or tertiary sources, and you rely on compudatabases like the Imperial Encyclopedia to keep up.

A much lower TL scholar might not be so disadvantaged on a higher TL world provided they have access to all the higher TL shortcuts and aids. They are just familiar with one less sub-specialty.

I grew up in a rural area with a significant number of kids who were raised off-grid and homeschooled, basically TL0. Some were back-to-the-landers and some were from religious families. Many of these kids grew up and went to college and generally fared as well as if not better than kids from TL7 homes. They knew what a urinal was even if they grew up with an outhouse, they weren't frightened by cars or radios. They might not have known who Hall and Oates were or watched an episode of ALF, but that wasn't a significant impediment to their success. In fact, it may have been an advantage.