Ramming Speed!

[robject]

Does anyone have favorite rules for turning ships into missiles, i.e. ramming? Is there any benefit for fighters turning kamikaze? How about a doomed capitol hull being able to ram another large hull, say to allow another friendly ship a dramatic chance to escape?

Are the distances in ship combat simply too great for this to be usefully probable?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by robject:
Does anyone have favorite rules for turning ships into missiles, i.e. ramming? Is there any benefit for fighters turning kamikaze? How about a doomed capitol hull being able to ram another large hull, say to allow another friendly ship a dramatic chance to escape?

Are the distances in ship combat simply too great for this to be usefully probable?

It was allowed in Mayday, but with the time frames and distances in starship combat I would say this is one of those very low probabliity incidents, though it does make for good cinematic effect.

It is very tough to hit an evading target, especially when the evading target gets to evade in three dimensions.

 

[clementk]

While it looks good on screen I guess (B5 comes to mind) it gets overly melodramatic esp. if overused (B5 again comes to mind). Snaps my suspension of disbelief suspenders.

My suggestion would be to use it sparingly even if you feel the situation warrents it.

 

[Golan2072]

Should be possible if the ramming ship has a much higher G than the target and a good manouvering computer; abut it should be much more destructive tham in B5 due to the sheer relative velocities involved. It shouldn't just make both ships "burn" or "split up"; it should probably leave very little identifyable debrees. Hell, a screw (?) ejected by a sattelite or so has once collided with Mir, creating a very large hole in a solar collector. Now imagine what a Mir-sized object would have done to it... and it was in a relatively low relative velocity.

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

Starship ramming seems like a total no-go in your typical naval engagement. However, there might be an interesting use for it as a spectacular "scene" in an adventure. Consider, for example, a huge liner at a highport, or perhaps two opposed capital ships "parked" near each other to facilitate some sort of diplomatic exchange. Both situations present dangerous opportunities for saboteurs to make something terrible happen, and perhaps even make it look like an accident.

 

[graden1]

[rant] Occasionally, one of my players makes an assinine comment about "ramming" in space combat. I calmly remind them that Traveller's source material is (mostly) classic sci-fi literature and not *&^%$#@! saturday morning cartoons. [/rant]

In answer to the original question: Yes. Only if the "target" has NO maneuvering capability. The rule is as follows: 100% casualties, on both craft. No discussion.

XO

 

[mike wightman]

Emm, if a 6g missile can hit a ship, then a 6g ship can hit another ship...

 

[TheEngineer]

To go the theoretical way:
If one ship has any higher g rating (and perhaps agility rating, too) as another it is always capable to match vector and finally ram the other one. Ok, thats not the cinematic way

Thats also true for many situations in "dogfight". If one ship is faster and more agile than the other on and sensoring works perfect, then ramming is often an option.
You can try this on graph paper, on the football field (ouch), on a highway (bad idea) or in a pretty one on one space combat sim. If youre slow, you've mostly lost, as the other one controls the vector difference.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

It (ramming w/ a fighter) would also be affected by how much else was going on around the target. If sufficiently engaged, I think you could kamikaze. Even the Japanese were not terribly successful at it in WWII, though, if there weren't a lot of other craft around.

Of course, a sufficiently large ship would only need the distraction long enough to get its initial plan laid (i.e., vector toward the target).

 

[Rossoneill]

Traveller 20 includes ramming ,
vehicles or starships , it has rules to evade or ram under the combat section

 

[far-trader]

Yes, but can you explain them, I'm still confused.

And they just don't feel right either. If my 200 ton TL15 heavily armored sdb collides with an unarmored TL9 400 ton fat-trader, guess who wins? The fat-trader with it's tissue thin skin the way I read it. Why? Because it has more SI (structural integrity) points.



My pointy hardened sbd does an accordian on the fat-traders viewport laden tin can?!

The way I read it the sdb doesn't even break the sealed integrity of the fat-trader while all that's left of the sdb is a smear and gasses.

Or have I got it badly wrong?

 

[far-trader]

I actually groaned at that. Was it before or after the groan at "The odds of successfully navigating an asteroid field... " ? Luckily that one was saved by the laugh Han's reply earned.

A better example of Han's hot shot piloting, and actually related to this thread was his suicide kamikaze ramming attack at the bridge of the lead Star Destroyer. THAT was cool. But opinions differ and time colours them

 

[far-trader]

I actually groaned at that. Was it before or after the groan at "The odds of successfully navigating an asteroid field... " ? Luckily that one was saved by the laugh Han's reply earned.

A better example of Han's hot shot piloting, and actually related to this thread was his suicide kamikaze ramming attack at the bridge of the lead Star Destroyer. THAT was cool. But opinions differ and time colours them

Edit: Actually come to think of it (dare I reveal my true geek potential???) iirc the Star Destroyer's that collided did so because the were dodging the blast of the ion cannon that was to clear the way for the ship's leaving. They were only so close and in line so they could bring tractors to bear on any ships lifting and capture everyone.

Of course I could have it out of sequence in my mind after all these years and be wrong, in which case I'm not so geeking geeky

 

[Rossoneill]

Far Trader
If i get time tonight ill try to check the ramming rules and see what they say

 

[far-trader]

No real hurry Rossthree. The game this weekend is off, again

I've looked at it twice out of interest and, well semi-preparedness expecting someone to do it, either on purpose or not So far it's just not falling together for me. Third look might do the trick but I'd be happy to discuss any insights. Thanks.

 

[Rossoneill]

Hmm
Far Trader after looking at the ramming rules last night.
It does look like both the 200 ton sdb and the 400 ton fat trader are flattened but the smaller sdb takes more damage.
But i do agree more than the SI, and the speed and size should figure in the damage .
We need a way to maybe add the armor in just for ramming so the sdb's armour helps protect against the ramming damage .
Any ideas anyone ?

 

[Rossoneill]

Far Trader
Maybe armor could equalize the damage
More specifically the AR could reduce the ramming damage the same as weapons damage is by armor.
Say ar 15 reduces ramming damage by 15 dice
Ar 3 reduces by 3 dice ,
except for the last die that always remains .
Or would this make ramming too popular as a tactic
Any other ideas ?
Or maybe the Ar could add structural points just against ramming ,maybe 5 or 10 pts of SI per AR ?

 

[far-trader]

Hmm, maybe I misread or misremember but I thought there was something about once one of the objects reaches it's zero SI point it does no more damage. So the higher SI will only take as much SI damage as the lower one has going in.

I postulated adding to SI for armor a while back on a different topic and it was pointed out that AR already factors into SI by negating damage dice so that does sound like the best way to handle it for this case too. Simple and consistant. Wish I'd thought of it

Will it lead to armored ships running unarmored ships through? Maybe but it still seems like a difficult and dangerous tactic. Best left for that "nothing to lose" or "no viable options" situation.

I was wondering if maybe hull configuration should play some part too. For example (a quick few):

1 - Where do you aim to ram a Dispersed hull structure?

2 - Will a Needle hull structure cause more damage than it takes to some degree?

3 - Is it easier to ram a Sphere hull than a Cylinder hull because of the profiles?

Or is that just asking for too much detail Probably

 

[savage]

Far Trader,
1. aim for the middle
2. Lower the self damage by 10%...however it didn't do the Super Star Destroyer any good.
3. no difference at these Gs...

Savage