Rank , Command and Ship Size

[jcrocker]

Well, doesn't that then promote essentially a caste system?

Not necessarily - that "Sage of Omaha" self-made billionaire fellow, for example. He could probably cold-call pretty much anyone he wanted on the planet, more so than a lot of people who had inherited a title.

Of course it certainly could go the way of the rigid caste system, but as long as it gives a players a chance for a good backstory, so be it.

 

[Whipsnade]

(blink) well it's certainly presented as such.

I wasn't clear, Fly.

When I wrote about SOC being a stat, I was referring to our subconscious assumption that all stats are culminative. While SOC is a stat, it's not quite like the others.

A STR of A includes strengths of 9, 8, 7, etc. An INT of A includes intelligence of 9, 8, 7, etc. DEX, END, EDU, they're all the same. A rating in one of those stats includes all the lesser ratings in that stat too.

SOC doesn't work that way. SOC isn't culminative.

A STR of A can automatically lift everything a STR of 4 can. SOC of A, however, doesn't automatically impart SOC 4 social mores, attitudes, behaviors, and opinions. In fact, Traveller has skills, Streetwise in LBB:1 and Liaison in LBB:5/S:4, which assists PCs/NPCs in the interactions with PCs/NPCs of different levels of SOC.

SOC isn't like the other stats. We can't treat it like the other stats.

And, just like TL and so many other things, SOC in the rules is subtly different than SOC in the 3I/OTU setting.

 

[kilemall]

Promotion to naval Captain rank should have modifications based on social standing, but still be possible.

Promotion to flag rank would require a base level of social standing, that may have been acquired through years of service and achievement as a Captain.

Perhaps you can achieve the rank of Commodore but not Admiral?

At end of chargen with full SOC benefits applied, if SOC A+ and Rank 6 then Admiral, otherwise Commodore.

Still a lot of firepower at that command level, destroyer flotillas or CruDivs or command of a capital ship- just not a whole fleet of the realm.

If the character 'rates', presumably he/she would be brought up to snuff SOC-wise to facilitate promotion, else like so many other Traveller characters, perhaps enemies perhaps a failure that stopped the full rise through the ranks.

I suppose the Marine/Army equivalent would be Brigadier General.

 

[flykiller]

SOC isn't like the other stats. We can't treat it like the other stats.

ah, I see what you're saying. but ss is not social mores, attitudes, behaviors, and opinions. it is standing. standing in relation to the imperial governing structure. and that is culminative. for 2-12 - imtu, the non-imperial-governance structure - a peasant may view increasing ss as a reward for service, while a noble may view it as training and filtering for service to the imperium. but above 12, imtu in the realm of imperial governance structure, it has to do with trust.

SOC in the rules is subtly different than SOC in the 3I/OTU setting

... actually, I see it as something that was tacked on because it sounded colorful and cool at the time, and the details were or were not to have been sorted out later, if ever. I'm just trying to sort them out, that's all, with a bottom up approach. "what is this, what's its function. now, how could it work in a traveller environment?"

yeah, in most short-term game environments, it doesn't matter. but role players play in an environment, and that means eventually you have to get around to determining what that environment is. I'm just looking for a better handle on "nobility". it may never be used, but if the players walk up to it then I'll be able to handle that turn of the game without ad-hoc ruling and plot thrashing.

and of course the easy answer is to just get rid of social standing and replace it with corporate promotion rank. not sure the imperium would be any different if that change were made.

 

[Black Vulmea]

Yes, I'm resurrecting a fifteen year-old thread, 'cause it was an interesting read and pertains to some stuff I'm working with in my setting right now.

First, NAVAL RANKS.

The old CT LBB5, High Guard had more rank definitions:

O1 - Ensign (basic rank 1)
O2 - Sublieutenant (basic rank 1)
O3 - Lieutenant (basic rank 2)
O4 - Lieutenant Commander (basic rank 3)
O5 - Commander (basic rank 4)
O6 - Captain (basic rank 5)
O7 - Commodore (basic rank 6)
O8 - Fleet Admiral (basic rank 6)
O9 - Sector Admiral (basic rank 6)
O10- Grand Admiral (basic rank 6)

IMTU, the Book 1 Navy career represents those worlds which have a planetary navy which consists of system defense boats and small craft while the High Guard Navy career covers the jump-capable provincial (subsector) and Imperial navies. I use the above for the Imperial Navy; while some provincial navies use the same rank structure, others vary - this is where I choose to indulge my creativity in setting building.

So that above structure is the one which reflects my Third Imperium, and the one I'll reference in this thread.

There're two things I don't recall seeing discussed at any length in this thread: the first is SENIORITY and the other COMMAND VERSUS STAFF ASSIGNMENT.

Historically, seniority was used to determine precedence between two officers of the same rank - as was social rank, of which I'll say more in a moment. We might see this indirectly in a naval officer's career, when they are vying for command assignments; in HG, officers roll each year for command - officers who don't receive command automatically serve as staff officers.

This means that two officers of the same rank may have very different duties. A Commodore with command most likely leads a capital ship squadron or a naval base; a Commodore on staff could be the logistics or operations officer for a Fleet or Sector Admiral.

And SOCIAL STANDING AFFECTS CAREER PROGRESSION in High Guard, but not in Book 1. Characters with high Soc gain bonuses to enter the Naval Academy, earn command assignments, improved chances of certain special duty assignments, and promotion in the Line/Crew branch. Those are pretty significant benefits over the course of several terms, and I've seen this play out in character generation. This maps pretty well to Soc-as-rules and Soc-as-setting-conceit, as does NAVAL SERVICE INCREASES SOCIAL STANDING, which appears in skill and mustering out benefits for all naval careers and can significantly increase a character's social position long after their naval service ends.

I'd say the required rank would be dependant on the number of crew commanded. An easy method would be use the crew number for the ship and add 1 to it for the minimum rank. So...

Lieutenants (rank 2) may command 1-9 crew (USP 1).

Lt. Commanders (rank 3) may command 10-99 crew (USP 2).

Commanders (rank 4) are required for 100-999 crew (USP 3)

Captains (rank 5) may command 1000-9999 crew (USP 4)

Commodores (rank 6) are required for 10,000+ crew (USP 5)*

This is pretty good; I'm not quite this systematic, but this is darn close to how I see the RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RANK AND DUTY: a 50k dton armored cruiser or strike carrier and a 50k dton fleet tanker or bulk carrier will not have the same ranks in command positions. More junior officers command smaller or non-combatant ships and squadrons. This also extends to shore installations, of course, and to assignments such as school and college staff, recruiting offices and military attachés and aides.

The French Navy rank structure offers a good guideline: instead of lieutenant commander, commander and captain, the ranks translate as corvette captain, frigate captain, and ship-of-the-line captain - this is a pretty easy rule-of-thumb to use in eyeballing which combat ship should be commanded by which rank.

I think that touches most of the bases from this thread, so I'll throw in two more thoughts on the space navies of the far future, just for fun. First, 'squadron' in the Third Imperium isn't the same thing as 'squadron' in historical or contemporary wet navy usage; Imperial Navy squadrons are more akin to our present-day task groups. Second, player characters should have more diverse backgrounds than, 'served on the cruiser Gionetti': Imperial fleets in particular have long logistical tails, so a lot of spacehands are going to find themselves on cargo ships, tankers, couriers, tenders and what not - for many officers, this may be their first command assignment.

 

[whulorigan]

NAVAL RANKS.

The old CT LBB5, High Guard had more rank definitions:

O1 - Ensign (basic rank 1)
O2 - Sublieutenant (basic rank 1)
O3 - Lieutenant (basic rank 2)
O4 - Lieutenant Commander (basic rank 3)
O5 - Commander (basic rank 4)
O6 - Captain (basic rank 5)
O7 - Commodore (basic rank 5) - [sic]
O8 - Fleet Admiral (basic rank 6)
O9 - Sector Admiral (basic rank 6)
O10- Grand Admiral (basic rank 6)

IMTU, the Book 1 Navy career represents those worlds which have a planetary navy which consists of system defense boats and small craft while the High Guard Navy career covers the jump-capable provincial (subsector) and Imperial navies. I use the above for the Imperial Navy; while some provincial navies use the same rank structure, others vary - this is where I choose to indulge my creativity in setting building.

So that above structure is the one which reflects my Third Imperium, and the one I'll reference in this thread.

One thing to note, tangentially:

Since when HG was published, it was still nominally independent of setting, and simply a rule mechanic for CharGen (though the OTU setting was definitively emerging in some of its text-details), it should be noted that in the various TNS News Briefs in JTAS, the following Ranks are explicitly mentioned in the 1106-1111 period:

1. Rear Admiral (in 1106, this was Santanocheev's rank) - TNS 1106
2. Vice Admiral (during FFW, Elphinstone, et al)
3. "Admiral" (during FFW, Santanocheev) - TNS 1108
4. Sector Admiral (during FFW, Santanocheev, senior to various Vice-Admirals)- TNS 1107
   
5. (And of course, Grand Admiral of the Marches is noted in the Library Data Supplements).

The question is, since the Rear- and Vice-Admiral ranks are clearly canonical in the OTU, where do they fit in the scheme, since the Sector Admiral seems to be senior to them? (Note that Hans Rancke noted this same thing in a GURPS JTAS article).

Considering the sheer size of the Imperial Navy, I would suggest that the ranks of Rear- and Vice-Admiral (and possibly "Admiral") would be subdivisions of O8/Fleet Admiral (which in this context merely connotes the command of a numbered (subsector) fleet, as opposed to the historical usage as a senior-most Admiral's rank (which is similar to the OTU Sector Admiral and/or Grand Admiral ranks)).

Alternatively, one could "bump up" the HG Rank Codes as follows:

• O7 - Commodore (basic rank 5) [Task-Unit/Squadron/Flotilla Command]
• O8 - Rear Admiral (basic rank 6) [Task-Group Command]
• O9 - Vice Admiral (basic rank 6) [Task-Force Command]
• O10 - "Fleet" Admiral / Admiral (basic rank 6) [Subsector "Numbered Fleet" Command]
• O11 - Sector Admiral (basic rank 6) [Sector "Named Fleet" Command]
• O12- Grand Admiral (basic rank 6) [Theater Command]

since one could make the case that the various ranks of Admiral beneath Sector Admiral might all potentially command various Task Groups, Task Forces, and/or Battle Fleets of varying size and function and either be drawn from and/or independent of the static command(s) in a given subsector or subsectors.

There're two things I don't recall seeing discussed at any length in this thread: the first is SENIORITY and the other COMMAND VERSUS STAFF ASSIGNMENT.

Historically, seniority was used to determine precedence between two officers of the same rank - as was social rank, of which I'll say more in a moment. We might see this indirectly in a naval officer's career, when they are vying for command assignments; in HG, officers roll each year for command - officers who don't receive command automatically serve as staff officers.

This means that two officers of the same rank may have very different duties. A Commodore with command most likely leads a capital ship squadron or a naval base; a Commodore on staff could be the logistics or operations officer for a Fleet or Sector Admiral.

And SOCIAL STANDING AFFECTS CAREER PROGRESSION in High Guard, but not in Book 1. Characters with high Soc gain bonuses to enter the Naval Academy, earn command assignments, improved chances of certain special duty assignments, and promotion in the Line/Crew branch. Those are pretty significant benefits over the course of several terms, and I've seen this play out in character generation. This maps pretty well to Soc-as-rules and Soc-as-setting-conceit, as does NAVAL SERVICE INCREASES SOCIAL STANDING, which appears in skill and mustering out benefits for all naval careers and can significantly increase a character's social position long after their naval service ends.

Note that in MgT Navy CharGen, anyone reaching Rank 5/Captain automatically gains Soc=10 or+1 Soc (whichever is higher), and anyone gaining Rank 6/Admiral automatically gains Soc=12 or+1 Soc (whichever is higher).

I'd say the required rank would be dependant on the number of crew commanded. An easy method would be use the crew number for the ship and add 1 to it for the minimum [CT Book 1] rank. So...

Lieutenants (rank 2) may command 1-9 crew (USP 1).

Lt. Commanders (rank 3) may command 10-99 crew (USP 2).

Commanders (rank 4) are required for 100-999 crew (USP 3)

Captains (rank 5) may command 1000-9999 crew (USP 4)

Commodores (rank 6) are required for 10,000+ crew (USP 5)*

Fleet Admirals are required for fleets (of course) where the total crew USP of all ships acting in concert is 6 or more. Ships only of course, not boats (i.e. small craft).

These are the minimums, nothing saying a Grand Admiral couldn't command a Fleet Courier with it's crew of 5

*USP 5 for crew is as high as High Guard goes

This is pretty good; I'm not quite this systematic, but this is darn close to how I see the RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RANK AND DUTY: a 50k dton armored cruiser or strike carrier and a 50k dton fleet tanker or bulk carrier will not have the same ranks in command positions. More junior officers command smaller or non-combatant ships and squadrons. This also extends to shore installations, of course, and to assignments such as school and college staff, recruiting offices and military attachés and aides.

The French Navy rank structure offers a good guideline: instead of lieutenant commander, commander and captain, the ranks translate as corvette captain, frigate captain, and ship-of-the-line captain - this is a pretty easy rule-of-thumb to use in eyeballing which combat ship should be commanded by which rank.

The general rule of thumb is that one supervising officer ideally can efficiently supervise 4-6 direct subordinates; that should help determine the rank of commanding officer necessary for any given command position. <sup>*

*</sup> - Note that some positions may require a higher rank than normal due to sensitivity or importance of the command in question.

Also note that the French/German/Russian (et al) translations of Ranks into English equivalents show some evidence of an additional rank (or perhaps a "fractional rank") in the officer seniority line-up relative to USN and RN ranks, depending upon how one equates them.

Roughly:

• OF(D) / O1 - Ensign/Sublieutenant/Midshipman (basic rank 1)
• OF-1a / O2 - Junior Lieutenant (basic rank 1)
• OF-1b / O3 - Senior Lieutenant (basic rank 2)
• OF-2 / O3a - Captain-Lieutenant (basic rank 2/3)
• OF-3 / O4 - Corvette Captain (basic rank 3/4)
• OF-4 / O5 - Frigate Captain (basic rank 4/5)
• OF-5 / O6 - Senior Captain (basic rank 5)
  .
  .

The Captain-Lieutenant is the lieutenant as "Lieutenant-in-Command" of a ship, and is variously equated with either a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander. German Navy stripes for a Captain-Lieutenant are the same as USN/RN Lieutenant Commander, but the rank is closer to USN/RN Lieutenant. In WWII, a Captain-Lieutenant typically commanded a U-Boot, whereas a USN Submarine commander was typically a Lieutenant Commander. A Corvette-Captain typically commanded a Destroyer, and had stripes like a USN/RN Commander. The Frigate-Captain had three stripes, with an additional half-stripe between the 2nd and 3rd stripe (which is not used in USN/RN), placing it between a USN/RN Commander and Captain.

I think that touches most of the bases from this thread, so I'll throw in two more thoughts on the space navies of the far future, just for fun. First, 'squadron' in the Third Imperium isn't the same thing as 'squadron' in historical or contemporary wet navy usage; Imperial Navy squadrons are more akin to our present-day task groups. . . .

I believe the USN subdivisions are as follows (please correct me if I am wrong):

• Task Element (= 1 ship) - O5 or O6 commanding
• Task Unit (= "Squadron" of ships) - O6 commanding
• Task Group (= several Task Units) - O7 or O8 commanding
• Task Force (= several Task Groups) - O8 or O9 commanding
• Numbered Fleet (= multiple Task Force equivalents assigned to a particular region under a static command) - O9 or O10 commanding

 

[Black Vulmea]

. . . it should be noted that in the various TNS News Briefs in JTAS, the following Ranks are explicitly mentioned in the 1106-1111 period:

1. Rear Admiral (in 1106, this was Santanocheev's rank) - TNS 1106
2. Vice Admiral (during FFW, Elphinstone, et al)
3. "Admiral" (during FFW, Santanocheev) - TNS 1108
4. Sector Admiral (during FFW, Santanocheev, senior to various Vice-Admirals)- TNS 1107
   
5. (And of course, Grand Admiral of the Marches is noted in the Library Data Supplements).

The question is, since the Rear- and Vice-Admiral ranks are clearly canonical in the OTU, where do they fit in the scheme . . . [?]

IMTU, vice admiral is a duty, not a rank: it's the second-in-command to a fleet, sector, or grand admiral. As such it's always described in conjunction with the larger unit to which it's assigned, frex, Fleet Admiral Sir Leroy Jenkins, Vice Admiral, 215th Fleet.

Rear admiral is subsumed by commodore IMTU, so a commodore is the rank most often assgined to base command as well as squadron command.

I'm not a super-stickler for canon.

Note that in MgT Navy CharGen, anyone reaching Rank 5/Captain automatically gains Soc=10 or+1 Soc (whichever is higher), and anyone gaining Rank 6/Admiral automatically gains Soc=12 or+1 Soc (whichever is higher).

I didn't know that; it's interesting and ties the Soc to the setting much more than in CT.

I believe the USN subdivisions are as follows (please correct me if I am wrong): . . .

Never looked that far into it, to be honest, but it works with the idea that contemporary task group = far future squadron.

 

[aramis]

it's worth noting that, at least in the UK descended systems and the German descended Systems (Including Russia and its descendants), Vice Admiral was always a substantiative rank, NOT a job title.

Vice Admirals in the UK and US tend to hold major commands

Rear Admirals hold command over task groups.

Substantive Commodores and Rear Admiral Lower Half hold major squadron commands.

Major ships and minor squadrons get Captains as acting commodore (title. not rank)

Minor ships get Commanders or Captains commanding.

The least important ships got Lieutenant Commanding, which later morphed into Lieutenant Commander (separately) in the US and UK systems.

Commodore as a substantive rank has come and gone in the US; before WW I, it was always a position title in the US. But, until 1862, the US had no one ranked above commodore... and all admiralty posts were filled by senior captains breveted to Commodore, retiring with captain's pay and commission, but entitles to commodore title and insignia.

The UK had two grades of commodore for quite some time; currently, it's one grade
(and exists in both RN and RAF flag officers)... while generally tied to a job description (commanding a group of vessels), not all commodores do that.

The German system has 3 junior officer grades, roughly "Lieutenant" "Senior Lieutenant" and "Captain-Lieutenant"; then three command grades, roughly "Corvette Captain", "Frigate Captain", and "Sea Captain". Then up to 5 grades of flag officer from the following 6... Flotilla Admiral, Counter Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, Admiral-general, Great Admiral. When Admiral General was used, Flotilla Admiral wasn't. The Russian system was imported whole-cloth by the Russian Empire.

So while the names describe jobs, the jobs named are no longer, and haven't been for over a century, tied to that job, but are a substantiative rank reflecting a level of command which may or may not be what the title says. So a "corvette captain" might command a corvette, be the first officer of a frigate, or command a repair facility, or be a senior medical or intelligence officer.

 

[whulorigan]

The German system has 3 junior officer grades, roughly "Lieutenant" "Senior Lieutenant" and "Captain-Lieutenant"; then three command grades, roughly "Corvette Captain", "Frigate Captain", and "Sea Captain". Then up to 5 grades of flag officer from the following 6... Flotilla Admiral, Counter Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, Admiral-general, Great Admiral. When Admiral General was used, Flotilla Admiral wasn't. The Russian system was imported whole-cloth by the Russian Empire.

Interestingly, I believe I have also seen some indication that (during WWI especially), the Germans also employed "Kommodore" and "Flotten-Kapitän" (Commodore & Fleet Captain), though I do not know if they were substantive ranks, fractional ranks, or merely jobs. During WWII, Kommodore had the shoulder-boards of a Kapitän-zur-See (Sea Captain), but the solid wide sleeve-stripe of a Flag-Officer, and was immediately junior to Konteradmiral ("Counter-Admiral"). This would seem to make the German Kommodore the equivalent of the RN Commodore 2nd Class.

USN & RN used "Fleet Captain" and "Captain-of-the-Fleet" (respectively) during the 19th Century for the job of what is today termed an Admiral's "Chief-of-Staff". In such a case, the Fleet Captain when on the Admiral's Flagship was listed as "1st Captain", and the "Flag Captain" (who commanded the Admiral's Flagship itself) was listed as the "2nd Captain".

EDIT: Found some Wikipedia documentation for the German Ranks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommodore#History

 

[kilemall]

Wasn't Commodore used as an honor/position rank for the civilian merchant convoy commander in WWII?

 

[whulorigan]

Wasn't Commodore used as an honor/position rank for the civilian merchant convoy commander in WWII?

Commodore is a title that was used in numerous contexts to refer to someone in charge of more than one vessel, including the Merchant Marine (and including the "officers" of Yacht Clubs as well ).

 

[Timerover51]

Commodore is a title that was used in numerous contexts to refer to someone in charge of more than one vessel, including the Merchant Marine (and including the "officers" of Yacht Clubs as well ).

The Royal Navy uses Commodore as indicating a naval commander of a rank higher than Captain in charge of a naval base or group of ships. The World War 2 Convoy Commodores were often retired Royal Navy Admirals called back to duty at a reduced rank.

The U.S. Navy no longer uses Commodore, as the equivalent is Rear Admiral of the lower half of the seniority scale. Personally, I think that the USN is a bit dumb about this.

I might also note that the Japanese Battleships "Yamato" and "Musashi" were considered by the Japanese as an Admiral's command, due to their size and importance. It is a great pity that Halsey took the bait and headed north at Leyte Gulf and did not allow Willis Lee to form Battle Line and engage Kurita's force with the Iowa-class ships. That would have been a battleship brawl for the ages.

 

[whulorigan]

The U.S. Navy no longer uses Commodore, as the equivalent is Rear Admiral of the lower half of the seniority scale. Personally, I think that the USN is a bit dumb about this.

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who has had that thought. They played with the one-star rank "Commodore-Admiral" for all of about 1 year in the early 1980's before ditching it, I seem to recall.

My understanding is that they want to avoid confusion between a substantive rank on the one hand and a generic Task Unit senior command position independent of any particular rank on the other. The USN still uses the position of Commodore (and Deputy-Commodore) for Captains (or other ranks) who command a squadron or Task Unit. My thought would be to go with the "Fleet Captain" title for the position of a multiple ship command assignment, and reserve Commodore for the substantive one-star rank, but that is just my opinion.

 

[aramis]

The Royal Navy uses Commodore as indicating a naval commander of a rank higher than Captain in charge of a naval base or group of ships. The World War 2 Convoy Commodores were often retired Royal Navy Admirals called back to duty at a reduced rank.

The U.S. Navy no longer uses Commodore, as the equivalent is Rear Admiral of the lower half of the seniority scale. Personally, I think that the USN is a bit dumb about this.

Technically wrong on both counts.... It's a rank in the UK, and a position title in the US.

Said RN commanders hold the substantiative rank of Commodore - Nato OF6, same as a USN RALH. They are assigned the posting because of being the rank, not titled because of the position.

The US still uses the term for multi-ship group commanders. The lowest ranking I've seen is a Commander (He commands an SSN squadron); the highest is a RALH. In the USN, the title is because of the position, not the rank. At least, since the mid-1980's. The Commander of USNA is entitled to the title, as well, and IIRC, also the commander of the USNWC.

https://www.nmrn-portsmouth.org.uk/naval-ranks
https://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/Pages/Navy-Officer-Titles.aspx

 

[Black Vulmea]

it's worth noting that, at least in the UK descended systems and the German descended Systems (Including Russia and its descendants), Vice Admiral was always a substantiative rank, NOT a job title.

Not exactly, at least with respect to the British: the vice admiral commanded the van in the line of battle - it was a duty, before it was a rank.

In any case, while our own history provides inspiration, there's plenty of opportunity for things to change in the next couple thousand years. As I noted above, I tend to keep close to the B5 titles for the Imperium, but provincial and planetary navies exhibit more variety.

 

[Straybow]

Years ago I posted a table put together even longer ago. It wasn't really complete.


The Army of the USA has nine enlisted ranks (with three special assigned titles at the top rank), six officer ranks, and five flag ranks. Britain, with a much smaller population and military, has pared down to six enlisted ranks. A military drawn from an entire world population with a need for substantial defense forces and power projection greater than a fractional planetary superpower will be many times larger. The old adventure game Planetfall had the player assigned as Ensign 7th Class as a tongue in cheek example of interstellar scale forces. Enlisted ranks are expanded to 11 (insert Spinal Tap joke here).

An interstellar navy, in particular, drawing from dozens or hundreds or even thousands of worlds will be unmanageably large without an expansion in ranks. Each added flag and officer rank can help cover fleets 4 or more times larger. The Navy inserts a Sub-Captain and tops the officers with three superior Captains, while adding three superior Admirals.

With interstellar marines spending far more time aboard ship than their planetary equivalents, it is helpful to be able to distinguish the Navy ranks from Marines. Enlisted ranks are already distinct between sailor and soldier. The commonly held lieutenant-captain-major-colonel designations are of French derivation. They are based on captain as "head," although the root becomes an ellipsis. Lieutenant [captain] means "holder in place of" the captain proper, with major [captain] meaning superior, and colonel [captain] derived from the city of Cologne/Köln for uncertain reasons.

Marines rank designations are now of German derivation. Hauptmann is "head man" or captain, "Major" [hauptmann] is pronounced "my-YOUR," while Oberst is "uppermost" [hauptmann] and pronounced "oh-BEAR-st." To handle the large size of an interstellar force add ranks "staff" hauptmann and "high uppermost" [hauptmann]. The Stabshauptmann is a rank introduced into the post-cold-war German military as a holding place for Captains who merit promotion but there aren't any positions open for Major, but here it will simply be a full step in rank. The Leutnant rank name is too close to the Franco-English, and pointedly avoided. While Unterhauptmann is not a standard rank it is an obvious choice. Zugleiter means leader of a "draft" (vaguely, a squad or platoon), to be used in place of 2nd Unterhauptman or some such.

Marine Command also wishes to be distinct from the more mundane services. For flag ranks the Marines use Brigadier to distinguish them from planetary (land, marine, and air) Generals, and add two superior Brigadier ranks above the four basic command ranks. Planetary forces add a High Colonel and three Marshal ranks above Generals to handle expanded force sizes.

In this scheme, the use of modifiers of General has been normalized along the lines of how Captain is modified, in that Lt General is below and Major General is above, instead of the reverse as seen in modern European rankings. The European structure has valid reasons that aren't covered here. This change arises from the necessity to remove Brigadier General from the Army rank names. Historical grognards may get picky about this inversion but it works better in the overall system. Brigadier ranks are likewise filled upwards with the Brigadier Major above the nominal Brigadier and Brigadier Leutnant below ("LOYT-nant").

Scouts have enlisted ranks that show their naval roots, while having vaguely naval officer ranks that also reflect the independent initiative of their duties. Merchants interstellar use enlisted ranks reflecting both classical craft roots and naval roots, officers that reflect merchant marine service, and flag ranks that reflect business organization. Megacorps handle their huge size by splitting into divisions and spinning off or purchasing subsidiaries rather than stacking more ranks into a unified structure. Subsidiaries and divisions have their own flag ranks, and the megacorp flag ranks are superpositioned. This kind of dual structure isn't specifically modeled in the generic rank chart.

All the branches have a series of Warrant Officers, mainly used for technical positions. Specialists are generally only promoted to E6, and if they don't shift over to standard command chain their next step is WO. These transitional ranks have special purposes that are treated differently in each branch. For example, Marines may put their warrant officers in command of equipment such as tanks, landing craft, aircraft, and small spacecraft, while officers are in charge of soldiers and groups of equipment. Armies may use warrant officers for technical specialists, while officers man aircraft and non-coms command tanks.

Finally, each branch has a special rank at the top of all Enlisted ranks and another atop Flag ranks, of which only one would be appointed in the entire Republic/Empire. The focus of the superlative enlisted ranks is typically on loyalty and morale issues (and occasionally corruption). The Constable and the Consuls in particular have exceptionally broad powers to act on behalf of the Premier/Emperor/Imperator to root out corruption (or perhaps properly channel the corruption, according to what kind of politics dominate). Among the merchant powers, they would have their own guild/syndicate chiefs and the one that serves the Empire-wide role might rotate in some fashion.

 

[Straybow]

        Navy              Marines         Army             Scouts          Merchant
E0  Recruit             Recruit         Recruit          Probate         Trainee
E1  Junior Spacehand    Private         Private          Deckhand        Apprentice
E2  Spacehand           Lance Corporal  Private FC       Able Deckhand   Shiphand/Shorehand
E3  Able Spacehand      Corporal        Corporal         Senior Deckhand Able Ship/Shorehand
E4  Petty Officer 3rd   Sgt/Specialist  Sgt/Specialist   Petty Officer 3 Foreman
E5  Petty Officer 2nd   Staff Sergeant  Staff Sergeant   Petty Officer 2 Journeyman
E6  Petty Officer 1st   First Sergeant  First Sergeant   Petty Officer 1 Crew Master
E7  Chief Petty Officer Gunnery Sgt     Armory Sergeant  Chief Petty Off First Crew Master
E8  Senior CPO          Technical Sgt   Technical Sgt    Senior CPO      Chief Crew Master
E9  Master CPO          Master Sergeant Master Sergeant  Master CPO      Senior Chief CM
EA  Command MCPO        Command MSgt    Command MSgt      —              Command Chief CM
EB  CMCPO of Fleet      Force CMSgt     Force CMSgt       —              Fleet Command CCM
E*  CMCPO of Emp        Sergeant Major  Sergeant Major   Grand MCPO      Superintendant CCM

WA  Jr Warrant Officer  Jr WO           Jr WO            Jr WO           Jr WO
WB  Sr Warrant Officer  Sr WO           Sr WO            Sr WO           Sr WO
WC  Chief WO            CWO             CWO              CWO             CWO
WD  Master CWO          MCWO            MCWO             MCWO            MCWO

O1  Ensign              Zugleiter       2nd Lieutenant   Scout Agent     4th Officer
O2  Sub-Lieutenant      Unterhauptmann  1st Lieutenant   Sr Scout Agent  3rd Officer
O3  Lieutenant          Hauptmann       Captain          1st Scout Agent 2nd Officer
O4  Sub-Commander       Stabshauptmann  Major            Sc Lieutenant   First Officer
O5  Commander           Major           Lt Colonel       Sc Commander    Captain
O6  Sub-Captain         Oberstleutnant  Colonel          Sc Captain      Senior Captain
O7  Captain             Oberst          High Colonel      --              --
O8  Line Captain        Hochoberst       --               --              --
O9  High Captain         --              --               --              --
OA  Flag Captain         --              --               --              --

A1  Sub-Admiral         Brigdr Leutnant Lt General       Sub-Commodore   Jr Vice President
A2  Rear Admiral        Brigadier       General          Commodore       Sr Vice President
A3  Vice Admiral        Brigadier Major Major General    Fleet Commodore President
A4  Admiral             Brig Commandant High General     High Commodore  Chief Officer
A5  Fleet Admiral       Brig Marshall   Field Marshall   Grand Commodore Director
A6  High Admiral        Brig of Marines High Marshall     --             Chair
A7  Grand Admiral        --             Grand Marshall    --              --
A*  Admiral Consul      Brig Consul     Constable of Emp Scout Consul    Inspector Consul

 

[Adam Dray]

That's pretty cool, Straybow.

IMTU, were I playing Imperium, I'd make the nobles earn their titles with military service. Then you get another complete hierarchy of military leaders over the Admirals (and give the barons and counts and dukes a more interesting life).

I feel like the leadership hierarchy needs to mirror the political subdivision at a certain point, and the nobility already does that.

 

[kilemall]

Just a thought on the autoSOC bit with Admirals- perhaps it would be more interesting from a roleplay perspective to allow for low SOC command officers.



It would allow for a character who grew up on the wrong side of the monorail being brought up because of competence but who never consented to play 'the officer/SOC game' and is not accepted into society at large.


Or made powerful enemies that made sure the good Admiral never got his barony.


Never waste a good hook.

 

[Black Vulmea]

IMTU, were I playing Imperium, I'd make the nobles earn their titles with military service.

IMTU, most do, more out of tradition than to 'earn' their titles.

My take is influenced most strongly by the Early Modern nobility, where a noble could be a diplomat, a military commander, a provincial administrator, and a great landowner and owner of a trading company all at the same time.

I posted an example at RPG Pub last fall:

Here's a sample:

His Grace Alanir Kimar Re'Donan, Duke of Ikhnaton, Marquis of Jullanar, Count of Emeraldis, Baron of Serit Arco[logy], Baron of Gakush, and Baron of Emerald Gate, M[edal for] C[onspicuous] G[allantry], K[night] C[ommander of the Order of] G[ateway], Warden of the Damgar Deep, Defender of the Imperium, First Senator of the Republic of Jullanar, Commander, Jullanar Navy (res[erve]), Chairman of the Board, Sekor SA, Director, Sharurshid, Director, Mustimondos Cybernetics LIC, Karun, Kimushenama, Regent, Imperial University of Jullanar, Patron, Duke of Ikhnaton University, and Sangus, Argushiigi Admegulasha Bilanidin

Duke Alanir is the sector duke for Ley Sector; as such he's perhaps the best, if most extreme, example of the many hats worn by a high Imperial noble. First, he's the head of House Re'Donan, which has two cadet branches: Silauraux, the marquises of Onud, and de Ley, the counts of Tancred. He has six Imperial titles: sector duke, marquis, count, and three baronies. In one of my many departures from Traveller canon, a baron is rarely named for a world; rather; their titles reflect cities and other lands held as fiefs on a mainworld. To give them an appropriately sci fi feel, barons were named for starship construction yards - the Count of Towermorn is also Baron of Yard 5; mines - the Marquise of Helena is Baroness of Drift Twelve and the Marquis of Realmuster is Baron of Platform 80-88; starports - the Countess of Uumpopula is Baroness of Starlanding and the Count of Arsouf is Baron of Richardsport; and plain ol' geographic features, of which my favorite is Baron of Welcomehome, the capital city of the planet Phytore. Duke Alanir's baronies are the Serit Arcology and the city of Garkush on Jullanar and Emerald Gate starport on Emeraldis.

Next are two honors, the Medal for Conspicuous Gallantry (MCG) earned during his naval service and knighthood in the Order of Gateway, and two honorifics, Warden of the Damgar Deep, an astrographic feature adjacent to the Jullanar Drift, and Defender of the Imperium, conferred along with his MCG.

This is followed by his local title, First Senator of the Republic of Jullanar, and military rank, commander in the planetary naval reserve. Jullanar is a republic and the duke is neither head of state nor head of government; he's a senator in the planetary legislature, but his title of marquis and status of patroon of a Merchant House earns him an honorific and other perquisites such as preference on committee selection. He attended the planetary naval academy to earn his commission and deployed on active service in the Jullanar Navy, which is part of the provincial (subsector) fleet. He continues to fulfill his required annual commitment to maintain his rank.

Now we come to the duke's economic power base, his holdings as patroon of House Re'Donan. The house's primary holding is Sekor SA, which builds, sells, and maintains computers and information systems. Sekor doesn't rise to the level of a megacorporation, but it's reach extends across Ley Sector into the neighboring sectors of Fornast, Antares, and the Empty Quarter; they build machines and networks under contract to the Vilani megacorp Naasirka as well as their own brands. Duke Alanir is also a director for two other corporations, the Vilani megacorp Sharurshid and Mustimondos Cybernetics LIC. He's the only high noble in the sector to have a seat on the board of a megacorporation - such is the recognition accorded a sector duke - while Mustimondos is the primary holding of one of the Re'Donan cadets, Silauraux.

Finally we get to Duke Alanir's charitable pursuits: he is a karun (Bilandin, 'director') of Kimushenama, the Vilani equivalent of Médecins Sans Frontières, regent and patron of two universities, and sangus (Bilandin, 'patron') of the Jullanar branch of the Vilani 'Repository of All Knowledge.'

Most of the high nobility IMTU serve in the Imperial Navy, where their high SOC offers them an advantage to receiving commands and advancement; Duke Alanir served - and serves - in homeworld's provincial squadrons to gain influence in his planetary government position as First Senator.

Most high nobles attend the IN academy and serve anywhere from a couple of terms through actual retirement; one, the Duchess of Spearhead, rose - on merit - to the rank of Sector Admiral, and would likely have become a Grand Admiral if her father hadn't died unexpectedly, forcing her to abandon her career and assume her duties as subsector duchess.

There are exceptions: the Duke of Diamond-Prince attended the IN academy but served in the Imperial Marines instead, retiring as a colonel, while the Duchess of Titanstorm was an Imperial Scout and scientist - she inherited the title when her two elder siblings pre-deceased her mother.