Reinventing Traveller

[Ildefonse]

I think my view for those who wish to reinvent Traveller, buy and download a PDF of the rules that you to work with, and then get to copying, pasting, and editing. As long as you use this for your personal use, and do not try to distribute it, you can do what you want. That, or get the Cepheus Engine, and do your editing on that. As much of that is open source, you could share that.

And with POD services such as Lulu it's possible to have bespoke versions of CT: I've done this with several rulesets now (including some CT offshoots). Obviously for personal use only.

 

[Dragoner]

Re: Computers, this discussion comes up fairly regularly, and last time in the fb group someone who does data center installations said CT computers were small, so much of the argument seems to be processing power or size of installation. I know from being in construction management, and seeing in the ads in the trade magazines, usually for HVAC equipment, that indeed data center installations are a fair bit larger than CT computers. Also certain things apply, like protection from being fried by radiation, or the Apollo vehicle's computer was minimal, though that 99% of the actual work had been done in large ground installations. So that one could assume that the size requirements are not so bad, except the program size, and such could be out of date, though that is sort of a mini-game in itself, switching around programs.

 

[kilemall]

Re: Computers, this discussion comes up fairly regularly, and last time in the fb group someone who does data center installations said CT computers were small, so much of the argument seems to be processing power or size of installation. I know from being in construction management, and seeing in the ads in the trade magazines, usually for HVAC equipment, that indeed data center installations are a fair bit larger than CT computers. Also certain things apply, like protection from being fried by radiation, or the Apollo vehicle's computer was minimal, though that 99% of the actual work had been done in large ground installations. So that one could assume that the size requirements are not so bad, except the program size, and such could be out of date, though that is sort of a mini-game in itself, switching around programs.

The computer subgame was very natural for me, they are very much like the partitioned systems. I wrote virtualization rules too as that was a thing even back then. Really liked the Space Opera and later Gurps cyberpunk computers, so did some complexity type house rules that I see ended up something like T4 rules.

Course, none of my players were keen on it so most of my efforts were vanity not useful. I’m still doing it, and have come up with an architecture in the past year explaining the extreme reliability of the CT machines. Not something the players will deal with normally, but could loom large in a hacking/50% damage scenario. Plus, visualizing stuff can help create unique plot points or making the ships more real.

I’m still convinced the proper model for the computers were US Navy computers of the 1970s.

Nowadays I just figure 50% of the CT computer costs are in sensors/avionics/engineering interface and justify on that basis. But I have a more nuanced sensor range and EM/EW band subgame so they loom rather larger then normal.

 

[Dragoner]

The computer subgame was very natural for me, they are very much like the partitioned systems. I wrote virtualization rules too as that was a thing even back then. Really liked the Space Opera and later Gurps cyberpunk computers, so did some complexity type house rules that I see ended up something like T4 rules.

Course, none of my players were keen on it so most of my efforts were vanity not useful. I’m still doing it, and have come up with an architecture in the past year explaining the extreme reliability of the CT machines. Not something the players will deal with normally, but could loom large in a hacking/50% damage scenario. Plus, visualizing stuff can help create unique plot points or making the ships more real.

I’m still convinced the proper model for the computers were US Navy computers of the 1970s.

Nowadays I just figure 50% of the CT computer costs are in sensors/avionics/engineering interface and justify on that basis. But I have a more nuanced sensor range and EM/EW band subgame so they loom rather larger then normal.

I used to think the huge 3,000MW computers from LBB 5 were ridiculous, except I didn't know about bit coin mining back then either. I know not more than 10 years ago they took a HP supercomputer up to the ISS and 7 disks out of 15 had fried from radiation in the first few months, and the ISS is in a safe zone.

I think there is a definite line between the mini-game players and not, I ran my last LBB 5 combat around 10 years ago, and the players were nonplussed by it. So I know that any mini-game needs to be modular so as to not disrupt the game if taken out. I have hand waved the hacking rules, mgt1 has two sets even, and similar to agent/itellect systems, and also with weapons. Endlessly stacking DM's sometimes it's just good to give the player an advantage; though I find anytime the DM's get over or under +/- 5, the system gets creaky.

 

[aramis]

One thing I keep coming back to is that I started using PDAs fairly soon after they came out, then smartphones; [...]

I'm still sentimental over both Handspring/Palm and Windows Mobile 5.

I miss the Newton... but I had a run of Palm devices, too. I loved my Sony Clié - flip, SVGA camera, double-res screen, built-in thumb-keyboard, Sony Memory Stick port...

The Newton's hardware was just good enough for the OS... but the OS was so much better than Palm in terms of input. When I got my Sony PRS-600, I realized I'd have much preferred it to use Newton OS with PDF and ePub added than the sony one (which was a nerfed linux).

What surprises me is that there's no neural net chip dedicated to handwriting recognition on the market - there are Neural Net chips and compute sticks, but none optimized for handwriting recognition.

It's also worth noting: there's a quad precision or better library available for most current extensible languages these days.
Python has mpmath - arbitrary (user set) precision (at ever decreasing speed for increased precision).
Ruby has flit (same)
C++ has libquadmath for typical use; 13+ others for higher precision, arbitrary precision calculation.
Java has it in the standard libraries... java.math
Javascript has math.js for arbitrary precision.
even ForTran has multiple arbitrary precision libraries...

(For those who don't know, fortran/ForTran/FORTRAN is from formula translation. )

 

[Straybow]

On the missile power issue….

...

BTW, assuming the 36EP value of the capacitor is 250MW x 36 x 1000 second turn, and 1000kg per dton re volume value, 10kg of capacitor gives us .36EP for a turn or a 90MW budget- enough to power a missile for several turns. We already have crazy energy density in game.

No, it would be more like 14,000 kg at a density of 1.0 (possible with very lightweight insulator between thin metal plates). But, yes, still a 0.025 EP-turn in a 10 kg capacitor would be 6.25 MW. Enough for 158 G...

So the capacitor size is also broken.

 

[mike wightman]

So getting back to reinventing Traveller:
a sidebar on personal communication and computer technology as TLs advance.

 

[whartung]

a sidebar on personal communication and computer technology as TLs advance.

Not to be myopic, but we're pretty much "there" today with modern phones and the underlying infrastructure.

I mean, can you do Dick Tracy video calls on a smart watch yet? I think so, but I'm not sure.

Voice recognition is still, frankly, pretty bad. You can't just "talk to it", it's still fiddly, still formal. I have to "Hey Siri, put pancake mix on my groceries list." "ok, I added pancake mix to your groceries list." "Oh, and apples." ".....". "Hey Siri, add apples and oranges to my groceries list" "Ok, I've added 'apples and oranges' (a single entry) to your groceries list". "Hey Siri, add....uhhl..." "boop, I'm sorry I dont' understand you meat sack!" "Right, and it's MY FAULT you silicon dit."

Once we get in to Augmented Reality, the game changes, that's a new frontier. But beyond adding real voice UNDERSTANDING, hard to imagine what's missing from the modern mobile devices.

 

[Drew]

Not to be myopic, but we're pretty much "there" today with modern phones and the underlying infrastructure.

I mean, can you do Dick Tracy video calls on a smart watch yet? I think so, but I'm not sure.

Voice recognition is still, frankly, pretty bad. You can't just "talk to it", it's still fiddly, still formal. I have to "Hey Siri, put pancake mix on my groceries list." "ok, I added pancake mix to your groceries list." "Oh, and apples." ".....". "Hey Siri, add apples and oranges to my groceries list" "Ok, I've added 'apples and oranges' (a single entry) to your groceries list". "Hey Siri, add....uhhl..." "boop, I'm sorry I dont' understand you meat sack!" "Right, and it's MY FAULT you silicon dit."

Once we get in to Augmented Reality, the game changes, that's a new frontier. But beyond adding real voice UNDERSTANDING, hard to imagine what's missing from the modern mobile devices.

Yes, with the Apple. https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ndex=0&idpp=overlayview&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

 

[mike wightman]

I think Algorithm Intelligence should be the re-definition of AI

Personal electronics still has advances to make - screens built into glasses then contact lenses for example (the former are getting there, the latter are still a way off; motion sensors, microphones and speakers built into 'jewelry'; virtual interfaces that tie in with the other technologies.

We will find out soon enough how the VR/AR 'metaverse' and its Microsoft equivalent (and Google and Apple and Amazon versions) affect human society - I'm betting it will bring even greater benefits than the social media djinni

 

[mike wightman]

Yes, with the Apple.

You can not make videocalls via the smartwach yet - no cameras.

 

[Condottiere]

Interface is an issue; you could make a large enough screen for recognizable icons and face shots, and an embedded camera under it, but try typing on it.

True, you could get an assist from Alexa or Cortana.

 

[Silverhawk]

I think my view for those who wish to reinvent Traveller, buy and download a PDF of the rules that you to work with, and then get to copying, pasting, and editing. As long as you use this for your personal use, and do not try to distribute it, you can do what you want. That, or get the Cepheus Engine, and do your editing on that. As much of that is open source, you could share that.

I have to say I've come to the same conclusion. There are things that I want that are not necessarily what anybody else wants. I've come to see the best systems as ones that allow for some flexibility shall we say in what parts you use. Systems that I have detested are either to much tied to this is how its done to the point that you sleep walk through the session. Or are so loose that every session something puts a halt to the proceedings while the vagueness of the rule is debated and adjudicated. Neither of those are fun.

 

[whartung]

That, or get the Cepheus Engine, and do your editing on that. As much of that is open source, you could share that.

You can get the Cepheus Engine SRD in HTML format off of github, so it's easy to edit. Even has a nice built in navigation scheme.

 

[JohnCalyn]

7.5 minutes at 1g is 1000km displacement.

For the first 7.5 minutes. It's 3000km for the 2nd 7.5 minute, 5000km for the 3rd, &c.

 

[JohnCalyn]

Even the magic maneuver drive and handwavium batteries wouldn't give a 50kg missile 6g acceleration for 1000 (or 6000 seconds, depending on the interpretation of the meaning of 6g6).

For the 1000s interpretation - 50kg at 60km/s has a kinetic energy of 90GJ, the battery will have to contain more energy as some will be lost so let's just round up to 100GJ

For the 6000s interpretation it is even worse - 3.24TJ.


Now a room temperature gravitic catalysed damper facilitated micro fusion reactor may be small enough to go in a vehicle, but a 50kg missile? If you can power a missile for that long why not use the same tech to power battledress, or VRF gauss guns, or mass drivers, or energy weapons?

Micro-fusion!

 

[JohnCalyn]

So you're suggesting that Rocket Science is not rocket science?

Rocket Science is Plumbing! High-pressure plumbing with fire coming out one end pushing everything else (including the plumbing) the other way.

 

[infojunky]

7.5 minutes at 1g is 1000km displacement.

You know I like that frame. Geosynchronous stations are on the table. As well as any orbital cruft that may exist.

 

[JohnCalyn]

Maturity is a mindset.

Age is a set mind.

 

[JohnCalyn]

I would revise the computer programs that are available. When the LBBs were written computer programs were long drawn affair. You had to know Assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL, PASCAL, or ADA. Computer memory was extremely limited, and programming was dictated by bytes not Megabytes or Teraflops like today. The first set of "stand-alone" computers that the Army used were TACCs which basically came in two trunks with an operating speed of Intel 8080 CPU. The Apollo 11 computers are dwarfed in speed and memory by our cellphones today. The Army's "portable" computer for the field was the DAS3 which was in a semi-trailer and ran on a COBOL compiler. My team replaced them worldwide in 1992 with the DS4 Tabletop computer.

I believe both Pascal and Ada were in the future (or in the works...) when Traveller came out in '77. The IBM 1401 could run LISP, though.