Religions
- Thread starter R_Kane
- Start date
Of course, the Vilani have a highly organized, developed, and integral religion -- a mature agricultural religion, centered around the food-preparation rituals of the Shugiili. IMTU, at least 80% of all cultural Vilani would never convert to a non-Vilani religion. And, since it is more like a state religion than not, its offices and ordinances are rather ecumenical -- there are plenty of open unbelievers in the priesthood who nonetheless practice their religion and are allowed to participate. There may well be Hindu and Christian Shugiili who still administer the Food Purification Rites of Vland.
I once played a Shugiili, which is the Vilani equivalent of a priest, but to us he's more like a mix of cultural Vilani stereotypes -- a goofy flunky with strange ways of cooking food (exposing food to hard vacuum; heating it with plasma; serving it with mildly toxic but mostly indigestible exotic plantlife; etc). He was thrown out of the temple due to a food-related incident with a very high-ranking government official. Ahem...
Anyhow, he served as Steward. I'm afraid he wasn't very successful, since he didn't have a lot of really useful skills. But he has served as the butt of players' jokes ever since.
In reality, Shugiili would have connections to Vilani and Imperial society that ordinary players might not have. They would probably not be very good at combat, but they would probably be great healers, and have strong skill in persuasion, carousing, intimidation, etc. They would probably not have to bribe officials for information. They would probably have a small retinue of NPCs for various purposes.
They'd probably be mighty handy with knives.
I'm starting to think Vito Corleone.
I once played a Shugiili, which is the Vilani equivalent of a priest, but to us he's more like a mix of cultural Vilani stereotypes -- a goofy flunky with strange ways of cooking food (exposing food to hard vacuum; heating it with plasma; serving it with mildly toxic but mostly indigestible exotic plantlife; etc). He was thrown out of the temple due to a food-related incident with a very high-ranking government official. Ahem...
Anyhow, he served as Steward. I'm afraid he wasn't very successful, since he didn't have a lot of really useful skills. But he has served as the butt of players' jokes ever since.
In reality, Shugiili would have connections to Vilani and Imperial society that ordinary players might not have. They would probably not be very good at combat, but they would probably be great healers, and have strong skill in persuasion, carousing, intimidation, etc. They would probably not have to bribe officials for information. They would probably have a small retinue of NPCs for various purposes.
They'd probably be mighty handy with knives.
I'm starting to think Vito Corleone.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Wouldn't Shugiili be more of a tradition than a religion though (and no, they're not the same)? Where's the aspect of the "divine" in making food the right way so that doesn't kill you? 
It's kinda like saying that people who know how to prepare puffer fish on earth make it a religion
It's kinda like saying that people who know how to prepare puffer fish on earth make it a religion
Actually it should go to the Political Pulpit
RandyT0001
SOC-13
Depends on how the people pass the knowledge down through the generations. From the standpoint of the Vilani humans the Ancients and their robot servants might have been "gods" (similar to the Greek, Norse, Chinese, Japanese, etc. mythologies) able to perform magic, fly in ways unlike a bird, have powerful and very deadly weapons, able to read your (human) thoughts and the humans would be utterly afraid and in awe of them. So when these "gods" collect some of your group and teach them how to prepare food from the alien plant life that surrounds you, one might and probably would develop religious overtones to it. The Shugiili become the priests since they were worthy enough, pure enough, etc to be chosen for this great and quite valuable knowledge.
Now as to what aspect of the "divine" is there in making food, well if you don't prepare your food from the items the "Shugiili-priests" have blessed by their god given rituals then you will probably be punished. If lucky you will only get very sick, otherwise you may die by eating the wrong food or unblessed food.
Isn't eating kosher the resolution of a health issue that was passed down as a religious doctrine? Hmmmm....
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the word JUST is a dangerous word. You can never understand people from other times by assuming that they were always calculating things in that manner.
Kosher is partly about health(though remember wandering escaped slaves would be too uneducated to know and too desperate to care). It is also about showing distinction from other nations. And if you believe the Talmud you will say it has deeper meaning. For instance there is no particular health reason not to have meat and cheese in the same meal. The reason I heard for that prohibition is that it would be sacrilege to put life(mother's milk)and death(a corpse) on the same table. Be that as it may you cannot interpret other cultures by the assumption that there primary concern was Earthly well-being, even unconsciously. People are more complicated than that. This is not a strictly religious point by the way-Rabbi X can do that if there is a Rabbi X that wishes to bother.
You can of course say that Kosher subconcciously evolved as a survival instinct. But then you must say that the argument that Kosher evolved as a subconscious survival instinct evolved as a subconcious survival instinct, in which case whence comes the validity of that argument.
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the word JUST is a dangerous word. You can never understand people from other times by assuming that they were always calculating things in that manner.
Kosher is partly about health(though remember wandering escaped slaves would be too uneducated to know and too desperate to care). It is also about showing distinction from other nations. And if you believe the Talmud you will say it has deeper meaning. For instance there is no particular health reason not to have meat and cheese in the same meal. The reason I heard for that prohibition is that it would be sacrilege to put life(mother's milk)and death(a corpse) on the same table. Be that as it may you cannot interpret other cultures by the assumption that there primary concern was Earthly well-being, even unconsciously. People are more complicated than that. This is not a strictly religious point by the way-Rabbi X can do that if there is a Rabbi X that wishes to bother.
You can of course say that Kosher subconcciously evolved as a survival instinct. But then you must say that the argument that Kosher evolved as a subconscious survival instinct evolved as a subconcious survival instinct, in which case whence comes the validity of that argument.
Could be. It depends, it depends. IMTU it isn't simply tradition. IMTU it needs to compete with some meddlesome heavyweights from those pulii shalap Solomani (spits on ground).Originally posted by Malenfant:
Wouldn't Shugiili be more of a tradition than a religion though (and no, they're not the same)? Where's the aspect of the "divine" in making food the right way so that doesn't kill you?
It's kinda like saying that people who know how to prepare puffer fish on earth make it a religion
How about wrestling matches where the contestants are nearly always grossly overweight... Sumo wrestling looks a lot like other wrestling games, and it is traditional, for sure, but it's a Shinto ceremony.
The Vilani cut puffer fish instead of trying to bump one another out of wrestling rings... and I wouldn't think simply knowing how to cut a puffer makes one a priest, any more than abstaining from pork makes one a Jew or Muslim... or weighing 300 kg and bumping into people makes one a Shinto.
It can be quite poignant that a religious ritual renders tasty, healthful nourishment from an otherwise lethal animal, though... I'm sure modern Vilani are (generally) quite aware that a ritual is a symbol or a shadow, rather than the thing itself, whether religion or tradition.
I also imagine there's some interesting philosophy what came out of Vland, perhaps given an edge due to their inhospitable environment.
To the Israelites, it was a symbol of being set apart. We European barbarians ate plenty of pork back then, and I assume most of us cooked them well enough (the pork, not the Israelites)
religion in traveller can be used in several ways
as a background
as an adventure in itself: sacred monkeys, pork-eating monks etc.
as a build-up for a character.
one of the most important ways is as a way to suprise players with an "oops" while exploring a strange culture.
several other ways
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by the way thank you for mentioning Vilani chefs I forgot them. It is well-develloped enough to be believed so it is an exception to my complaint about one-dimensional religions. Though is Shugiili a religion or a craftsman's ideal? religion is hard to define. for instance i often find it convenient to think of Communnism as a religion because it tends to "act" like one. However that would not be what most people mean.
as a background
as an adventure in itself: sacred monkeys, pork-eating monks etc.
as a build-up for a character.
one of the most important ways is as a way to suprise players with an "oops" while exploring a strange culture.
several other ways
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by the way thank you for mentioning Vilani chefs I forgot them. It is well-develloped enough to be believed so it is an exception to my complaint about one-dimensional religions. Though is Shugiili a religion or a craftsman's ideal? religion is hard to define. for instance i often find it convenient to think of Communnism as a religion because it tends to "act" like one. However that would not be what most people mean.
What if the players are nobles that find a planet that has a barbaric religion or ideology. by that i mean REALLY barbaric not just barbaric in the eyes of snobbish Impies(as in one-hundred thousand human sacrifices a year). do they suppress it(is that aggresion?) or leave it be(is that callousness?). how much can the Imperium afford to do such things?
this is a classic moral conundrum at least two hundred years old-and one that really hasn't been figured out yet. of course it depends on how "dark" a game the PCs will stand. Personally I prefer only so much and think that attempts at that sort of thing are to common and that to many authors-artists forget the entertainment side of their work for the sake of the message. Yet such things are an old artistic tradition and would be valid in traveller
this is a classic moral conundrum at least two hundred years old-and one that really hasn't been figured out yet. of course it depends on how "dark" a game the PCs will stand. Personally I prefer only so much and think that attempts at that sort of thing are to common and that to many authors-artists forget the entertainment side of their work for the sake of the message. Yet such things are an old artistic tradition and would be valid in traveller
RandyT0001
SOC-13
Yes, how would the Imperium relate to my fictional world of Vondaniken (see earlier post) where interstellar Travellers are treated as gods, complete with fear, awe and appeasement through human sacrifice? Does the Imperium interdicte it as a red zone or do they not care as long as there is trade involved (handled through the priests on Vondaniken)?
The Vondanikens are an advancing culture and would soon (given the timeline of scientific advancements) reach into the stars, would they? Or would they refrain from venturing into the realm of the gods? After further contact (if permitted) would they review their own beliefs of the gods infallibility? If, after review, the Vondanikens find fault in the gods would they have impetus to advance even quicker that before in order to challenge the now percieved "false" gods?
How does the Imperium (and the other interstellar governments) handle the "Chariots of the Gods" religious situation when encountered?
