Religions

[jatay3]

What if the players are nobles that find a planet that has a barbaric religion or ideology. by that i mean REALLY barbaric not just barbaric in the eyes of snobbish Impies(as in one-hundred thousand human sacrifices a year). do they suppress it(is that aggresion?) or leave it be(is that callousness?). how much can the Imperium afford to do such things?
-------------------------------
by the way that question goes back at least as far as Europeans started having enough power for the question to have any meaning.Usually the decision was decided in favor of self-interest, not always.
I don't know whether or not others worried about it, though I do remember the Roman thing about "raising up the poor, and beating down the proud who resist"-but I got the impression that that was to a large degree a fortunate by-product.

 

[Piper]

Well, since the Prime Directive(tm) requires non-interference, you beam down to the planet, seduce the archpriests daughter, and, after a series of adventures, burn the temple down with phasers.

Kidding aside, if the world is aligned with, or protected by a larger government, you either accept it or risk war. If the world is "out there" on it's own, you're free to do pretty much as you wish.
The Imperium has accepted a wide range of government types, not all of which might be palatable. While "barbarism" might be an excuse for action, it's probably not the primary reason.

At a guess, the planet would be red-zoned and IISS cultural contact specialists would be sent in to discuss things with the priesthood. Given the canon background of long night, situations like this might have happened before, possibly several times.

One scenario might be: keep the priests in power and explain that sacrifices will prevent further contact. The people are told that the sacrifices have worked and, since the starmen have returned, are no longer needed. No sense in dumping a load of guilt on a population who are mostly innocent of wrongdoing.

I would imagine the planet would be red or at least amber for a long time, slowly weaning the population into a different direction and gradually introducing offworld tech and culture.

 

[robject]

IMTU, if the world will trade according to Imperial requirements, the Imperium won't give a hoot what they do to their people.

Although, the Imperium does meddle... for instance, I believe slavery is prohibited.

So they might come down with all the subtlety of Cortez or Pizarro.

 

[Jason M Durkish]

Here is a list of the most common religions in my gaming universe .

Human Religions
1.Thrian Catholic(Reformed Catholicism in other TU universes)
2.The Holy Galactic Church(Evangelical Protestant)
3. The Slovian Orthodox Church(Eastern Orthodox)
4. Progressive Judaism
5. Quranist Islam
6. Confucian
7.The Dojos( A mixture of Buddhist theology and marshal arts disciplines)

None Human Religions
1.Reticulan(Pantheist)
2.Dropa(Animism)
3.Dwergi(Ancestor Worship)
4.Fanuo(Polytheism)
5. Sirian(Cosmic Balance)
6. Insectoid(Empress Worship)
7.Reptiloid(Deicide Religion)

Abhorrent Religions
1Cthuhi religion
2. The Cult of the Dead gods(Reptiloid)
3.The Neo Thuggie Cult(Human)
4 Sprits of Fire and Winter(Dropa)
5 .Shamed Ancestors(Dwergi)
6. The Primal gods(Fauno)
Please telegram me if you want more information on any of these grou

 

[BwapTED]

I'm a big fan of using religions in the game.
Historically based, Earth origin ones make a lot of sense in the OTU.

I'm also interested in the religious ideas of the various other, non Solomani, Human species.

IMTU, few humans would follow the religions of the really exotic (in psychology and by most human species' standards) aliens, or vice versa.

But I would expect a fair amount of conversion and syncretism among the various branches of Humaniti.

Some of the nonhuman aliens may be close enough to humans to share some religious ideas and customs after centuries of contact. Aslan and maybe Vargr seem likelier than Droyne. I'm not sure about Hivers.

For the most part, I prefer my aliens (non human) to follow alien customs and ideas.

YMMV, as always


PS-- That set of lists looks fun, Jason Durkish.

 

[BwapTED]

Yes, how would the Imperium relate to my fictional world of Vondaniken (see earlier post) where interstellar Travellers are treated as gods, complete with fear, awe and appeasement through human sacrifice? Does the Imperium interdicte it as a red zone or do they not care as long as there is trade involved (handled through the priests on Vondaniken)?

The Vondanikens are an advancing culture and would soon (given the timeline of scientific advancements) reach into the stars, would they? Or would they refrain from venturing into the realm of the gods? After further contact (if permitted) would they review their own beliefs of the gods infallibility? If, after review, the Vondanikens find fault in the gods would they have impetus to advance even quicker that before in order to challenge the now percieved "false" gods?

How does the Imperium (and the other interstellar governments) handle the "Chariots of the Gods" religious situation when encountered?

I'd say that how this is handled would be to the sector or subsector authorities. The Emperor probably hasn't ever heard of this place, or else it's some obscure footnote in reports he may or may not have read.
If off-worlders are worshipped, not sacrificed, then I doubt it's a Red Zone. Maybe Vondanikien is an Amber Zone? Who makes that call, IYTU? It might be Red Zoned if the local Imperial authority is really worried about some off world corsair showing up and using the planet as a base to make trouble further out...


Is there a star port? If so, what class?



As always, YMMV.

 

[Carlobrand]

I'd say that how this is handled would be to the sector or subsector authorities. The Emperor probably hasn't ever heard of this place, or else it's some obscure footnote in reports he may or may not have read.
If off-worlders are worshipped, not sacrificed, then I doubt it's a Red Zone. Maybe Vondanikien is an Amber Zone? Who makes that call, IYTU? It might be Red Zoned if the local Imperial authority is really worried about some off world corsair showing up and using the planet as a base to make trouble further out...


Is there a star port? If so, what class?



As always, YMMV.

Unfortunately, the post with that particular scenario is 8 years old at this point and the poster hasn't posted in 3 years, so we're not likely to hear a response from him.

However, the scenario is bizarre enough that it might deserve a red zone just on that basis. The previous post he alludes to:

Timeline
-2211 The Vilani world of Vondaniken (E766889-8) looses contact with the 1st Imperium because of the IW's with Terra...

answers some of your questions and makes it clear that this is a human civilization. The contacting scouts are therefore confronted with a human technological civilization (at least TL7 at contact) that practices human sacrifice to appease offworld visitors who are likewise human, whether the locals presently understand that or not. It is not too far a leap for a scout to suppose that a TL7 civilization doing such things might, in the aftermath of a negative contact with some offworlder, conclude that there are infernal as well as divine offworlders, and that it is proper to take hold of infernal offworlders and sacrifice them to the divine offworlders.

Human sacrifice as part of religion tends to revolve around the idea of a spiritual realm. If the sacrifices are voluntary, the voluntary sacrifice of life may be seen as ennobling, permitting the volunteer to transition to the spiritual realm and enter the company of the deities, sometimes to act as intermediary. Servants might be sacrificed with the death of an important figure in order to assure that figure of servants in the afterlife. Humans may also be sacrificed in the construction of some building, bridge or other construct, their sacrifice a form of protective magic to shield the construct from evil occurrences, or an important figure might sacrifice someone very dear to them in exchange for the favor of the deities in the physical world, a sort of quid pro quo that preserves a kind of balance. If the sacrifices are involuntary, the victim may be sacrificed as a form of ritual execution to remove a malefactor from society in a way that ensures the malefactor's spirit won't return to wreak vengeance, or captives of war may be sacrificed to please aggressive deities and ensure their continued support.

At any rate, the usual implication is that the deity is "elsewhere". Otherwise, the easiest solution would be to hand the intended victim directly to over to the deity and ask what he wants done with them rather than to have the audacity to assume you know his will. That an industrial civilization with sufficient background in science to achieve TL6 technology should respond to the discovery of ancient evidence of offworld visitation by evolving human sacrifice rituals, and then continue those rituals when those visitors appear on the physical plane instead of handing the intended victims directly over to them alive for their use, marks a very strange and dangerously unpredictable culture that needs to be studied very cautiously.

 

[BwapTED]

He hasn't posted in three years? In that case, I apologize for the necromantic action.

 

[HG_B]

That an industrial civilization with sufficient background in science to achieve TL6 technology should respond to the discovery of ancient evidence of offworld visitation by evolving human sacrifice rituals, and then continue those rituals when those visitors appear on the physical plane instead of handing the intended victims directly over to them alive for their use, marks a very strange and dangerously unpredictable culture that needs to be studied very cautiously.

That a post Age of Reason, industrialized civilization would behave that way is as close to impossible as is possible without hitting an absolute.

 

[Carlobrand]

That a post Age of Reason, industrialized civilization would behave that way is as close to impossible as is possible without hitting an absolute.

We'd have to impose a cultural factor predisposing them to it, like a culture that placed high value on honor and courage above life, where the faith sought sacrifices and individuals volunteered willingly for sacrifice as a means both of showing the worthiness of the culture and of bonding the culture together, where the family accrued great honor as the result of an individual's sacrifice and the value of the sacrifice was directly related to the status of the individual, encouraging those of high status to volunteer as well and thereby bond the culture across socioeconomic levels. In that setting, they might consider a display of willing sacrifice as a way of showing the visitors the courage and worthiness of their people and culture.

I don't think it's quite what Randy had in mind, but it works.

 

[HG_B]

We'd have to impose a cultural factor predisposing them to it, like a culture that placed high value on honor and courage above life, where the faith sought sacrifices and individuals volunteered willingly for sacrifice as a means both of showing the worthiness of the culture and of bonding the culture together, where the family accrued great honor as the result of an individual's sacrifice and the value of the sacrifice was directly related to the status of the individual, encouraging those of high status to volunteer as well and thereby bond the culture across socioeconomic levels. In that setting, they might consider a display of willing sacrifice as a way of showing the visitors the courage and worthiness of their people and culture.

I don't think it's quite what Randy had in mind, but it works.

Meh. There exists no such thing in Earth history. That is for post medieval society. Too implausible to make for a good game.

 

[Carlobrand]

Meh. There exists no such thing in Earth history. ...

So what? When did the cultures of ten thousand worlds stretched over thousands and in places hundreds of thousands of years on alien worlds of widely varied atmospheric, gravitational, and ecological circumstances become limited to what has happened in Earth history? If plausibility requires that everything in a star-spanning far future game look like something that's happened here on Earth, we're in a pretty sorry state - not to mention that such a basis would nicely torpedo a whole lotta very good science fiction out there.

:nonono:

 

[HG_B]

So what?

If we are talking homo sap, the basic nature is the basic nature. On Earth it doesn't matter what clime, it is pretty constant as to our nature. Which is only logical when you look at genetics.

 

[Carlobrand]

If we are talking homo sap, the basic nature is the basic nature. On Earth it doesn't matter what clime, it is pretty constant as to our nature. Which is only logical when you look at genetics.

Quite true, and what I described is consistent with the basic nature and quite plausible. You don't have to look past about the 20th century to see that humans will quite willingly sacrifice themselves for their beliefs even in a technological era.