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Rethe's history

rancke

Absent Friend
I've been looking at Rethe's history with a view to answering the question: How did such an unpromising world as Rethe (small desert world with very thin atmosphere) wind up with a population of 26 billion in 1105 (and 30 billion in 1111)?

Part of the answer I'm proposing to come up with is that a lot of the population lives elsewhere in the system. But that only takes us so far; Rethe, being the mainworld, has to have a bigger population than any other part of the system. (Indeed, one system expansion procedure makes it impossible for any secondary location to have a population score greater than one less than the mainworld. However, I don't see the justification for that and propose to ignore it).

Rethe's star is a G7 V. The system has 3 gas giants and 2 planetoid belts. So much is canon.

Currently I'm thinking of placing Rethe in orbit in the life zone, one planetoid belt inwards of that and the other outwards. Probably respectively one orbit in and one orbit out from Rethe. The gas giants I have no ideas about.

I'm thinking of making the first semi-permanent visitors to the system independent miners and small-time mining companies. And I'd like to make the inner belt the prime target of the early mining efforts. To do that, the inner belt has to have richer lodes than Rethe itself (The outer belt I'm making predominantly rocks and ice). Is that plausible or, if not plausible, not too implausible?

EDIT: I should probably elucidate the situation I'm talking about: It's early in the history of the Imperium, perhaps the late 2nd Century PI. Settlement of the Spinward Marches is sparse and in many cases by utopian groups trying to get away from the Imperium. Regina, Efate and a handful of other Human-norm and Human-prime worlds have modest populations. There's still plenty of unclaimed real estate with breathable air around. Or perhaps it's the late 3rd Century. Populations are a bit bigger, some of the local worlds are beginning to build (small) starships, the Imperium has persuaded Regina and its inhabited neighbors to join, but there's still plenty of unclaimed land around. No one goes to the Rethe system to settle. They go to dig out riches (not common minerals but precious metals and gems) and return to their home- or baseworlds, Regina or Efate or somewhere like that. Apart from Rethe and whatever moons that may orbit the three gas giants, there are two planetoid belts. One is some hours travel inside the stellar jump limit, the other is outside it. I want the miners to mainly work the inner belt (and use Rethe as a transshipment point). Since the position makes the inner belt less attractive than Rethe and the outer belt, all other things being equal, this requires that the inner belt is more profitable to mine than Rethe and the outer belt so that all other things are not equal. So if I say "the inner belt had greater/more accessible deposits of precious metals and stuff", is that plausible or at least not too implausible?


Hans
 
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Repressive enough that they have a 3 day lawless holiday once a year to let off steam, but not repressive enough to not have a lot of children. Not a "we're not going to bring a child into a world like this" kind of attitude.
 
Repressive enough that they have a 3 day lawless holiday once a year to let off steam, but not repressive enough to not have a lot of children. Not a "we're not going to bring a child into a world like this" kind of attitude.

Not really relevant to a discussion of conditions 700 years earlier.


Hans
 
Not really relevant to a discussion of conditions 700 years earlier.

I don't see that time-frame referenced in your original post.

Still, I think the conditions on Rethe should have contributed to a lower population. It should have been easy for some of the population to pick up and leave. It's a high population despite the conditions. How did that happen? What's keeping them there if it's a repressive government in that kind of environment?
 
So a thought on population density ...

Starting with 1 square kilometer (roughly 250 acres).

Normal agriculture will support about 1 person per acre of farmland or about 250 people per square kilometer.

A 5 acre city block covered with a 60 story vertical farm will produce as much food as about 5000 acres of conventional farms. So 1 square kilometer of 60 story vertical farms will support about 250,000 people.

A mile high (about 260 to 520 story) structure is just barely possible at our current TL. Let's call that 8 times as tall as the 60 story vertical farm, or able to support about 2 million people per square kilometer.

How many square kilometers of land area is there on this desert world?

[Now why so many people want to live there is another matter ... one I prefer not to have an opinion on.]
 
I don't see that time-frame referenced in your original post.

"I'm thinking of making the first semi-permanent visitors to the system independent miners and small-time mining companies."​

Rethe was first settled between 300 and 400. Though that would be permanent settlers, so the first outposts could have been even earlier.


Hans
 
How many square kilometers of land area is there on this desert world?
Using orbital habitats and putting some of the population in the two planetoid belts, as much as you need.

[Now why so many people want to live there is another matter ... one I prefer not to have an opinion on.]

Most would have been born there. Which is why I go back to the early days to find the roots of an explanation.


Hans
 
Rethe was first settled between 300 and 400.

Sorry, missed that. Now it makes more sense.

Normal agriculture will support about 1 person per acre of farmland or about 250 people per square kilometer. A 5 acre city block covered with a 60 story vertical farm will produce as much food as about 5000 acres of conventional farms. So 1 square kilometer of 60 story vertical farms will support about 250,000 people. A mile high (about 260 to 520 story) structure is just barely possible at our current TL. Let's call that 8 times as tall as the 60 story vertical farm, or able to support about 2 million people per square kilometer. How many square kilometers of land area is there on this desert world?

Except Rethe is Non-Agricultural. Everything would have to be imported. Both Food and Water as it's a Desert World. Unless it's like Dune and they live off Spice and what few creatures can tolerate the environment. Blood-drinkers would probably be common among the critters.
 
Using orbital habitats and putting some of the population in the two planetoid belts, as much as you need.
Hans
Just to make sure that my basic point was not missed:

26,000,000,000 people / 2,000,000 people per square kilometer = 13,000 square kilometers

If the planet has 13,000 square kilometers of land to build on (roughly the land area of Puerto Rico or half of Belgium), then all 26 billion people COULD live on the mainworld.



What actually "IS" on Rethe, is for you to decide for yourself; I am simply pointing out one technical possibility.
 
Except Rethe is Non-Agricultural. Everything would have to be imported. Both Food and Water as it's a Desert World. Unless it's like Dune and they live off Spice and what few creatures can tolerate the environment. Blood-drinkers would probably be common among the critters.
Arizona is a desert state and has some of the highest per acre crop yield farms in the United States ... long growing season and lots of sunshine.

Dune is closer to Hydrographics 0.
Are you sure Rethe is that bad?
If so, then they should just settle Earth's moon instead since at least it has polar ice for water. :)

Vertical farming is exactly what I picture for a non-agricultural world. Food is grown indoors in sealed tower greenhouses at a higher cost per ton than traditional agricultural methods ... so food costs more, both to buy and sell, than on a world with Kansas-like wheat fields and is not available in vast surpluses for export.
 
Has anyone thought the possibility that the planet was not always desert?

What are the earliest (in OTU chronology, not in Traveller publications one) UWP we have?

It just occurred to me the possibility that desertization might be due to the same population that overcrowds it, drying more and more land for agricultural pourposes, and provoking the desertization though pollution and other actions, until most water is underground or in form of swamps (IDK if they are counted toward the hydrographics of a world).

Maybe just garbage talking, just some random thoughts I wanted to share...
 
Maybe too the cities could also be below ground as well too. Although how one world would have grown to such a high pop preasure is beyond me, also how do they sustain that too? Seems like a bio event (plague) would be a great plot line for that world.
 
Well that is the math, but what about death rate and population explosion issues like lack of food and services? I am more talking about the human element that always seems to get in the way of logic and etc.
 
Carefully avoiding any mention of real world religion, there are certain 'world views' that favor above average reproduction rates ... and I ain't saying no more. ;)
 
Carefully avoiding any mention of real world religion, there are certain 'world views' that favor above average reproduction rates ... and I ain't saying no more. ;)

I would certainly prefer coming up with a different explanation.

Perhaps it's the other way around. The population hasn't grown for any particular reason but because there was no particular reason not to. If the majority of the population lives in space station in orbit around Rethe and in the system's planetoid belts, there's no natural limit to growth. When you have a major industry built up around the manufacture of space stations and they finish one, what do you do? Throw a lot of people into unemployment? Or do you commission another space station? And when there is extra room to be had, why not have an extra child?

But all that comes later. Right now I'd like to concentrate on the early days.


Hans
 
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