Rewriting Mayday

[infojunky]

Hi,

The story thus far, I have this grand plan in my head, and well now kinda on paper, of converting/updating Book 2 starship combat into something like Mayday. Directly this isn't that big a deal, but I amy also coupling it with bits and pieces of other editions of Traveller, most notably MGT.

The base scale is 1000 second terns with a 10,000 km hex, i.e. 30 hexes equals 1 light-second. The game board is a 24 by 36 inch sheet of 6 mm hexes and play will be plotted.

Those are givens.

Now, the question is what are the relative turret weapon damages?

Book 2 has:
Beam Laser = 1 hit
Pulse Laser = 2 hits
Missiles = 1d6 hits (Note there is a similar system in Special Supplement 3 Missiles, and I am going to include, but it really only adds options for missiles. and is ratable in the same scale as book 2)

These are all a given, so how do the ones added in High Guard rate on this scale, in gross damage?

Plasma Guns
Fusion Guns
PAs
PA Barbettes

And as a added bit, there is reference to Heavy Lasers in early Journals, I believe these were in 1st edition/printings of book 2, which I do not have a copy of any more. So any body wish to enlighten me?

 

[jawillroy]

I remember seeing something in Expedition to Zhodane where a fusion gun did four hits of damage, and maybe had an additional negative on longer range firing. I imagine you might have the Plasma guns do 3. PAs should do radiation damage in addition to whatever else they do...

Interested to see where this goes, because I've been kinda working on the same thing.

 

[infojunky]

I remember seeing something in Expedition to Zhodane where a fusion gun did four hits of damage, and maybe had an additional negative on longer range firing. I imagine you might have the Plasma guns do 3. PAs should do radiation damage in addition to whatever else they do...

It's not in expedition, god I wish it was, then I would have a solid foundation to build from. I am trying very hard not to break down and just use striker, because that is the route they kinda went down with MT. And we all know what kinda mess that turned into.

Interested to see where this goes, because I've been kinda working on the same thing.

I will be sharing my results when I'm done, though most of my development is being done in open forums and Lists so anyone can use what ever part they feel they need.

 

[Icosahedron]

You guys are obviously some way ahead of me in this. I have Mayday and Power Projection but I've never played them. I assume you consider them to be inadequate, otherwise you wouldn't be designing your own - what do think are the major drawbacks of these systems?

 

[aramis]

MT lists a factor 1 Beam at 500, pulse at 750, plasma at 800, fusion at 900, particle at 2000. so that does give another set of data points.

 

[jawillroy]

You guys are obviously some way ahead of me in this. I have Mayday and Power Projection but I've never played them. I assume you consider them to be inadequate, otherwise you wouldn't be designing your own - what do think are the major drawbacks of these systems?

I find Mayday supremely frustrating. I *hoped* it would be a simple port of the book 2 combat rules to a hex format. While Mayday does a good job of simulating vector movement, it first changes the scale drastically (from LBB2's 10,000km/1000 seconds, to something on the order of 300,000km/6000 seconds) and also changes the mechanics for fire resolution: missiles in contact need to roll for hit/damage, and you're limited in how many can be in flight at once. Any ship with a lot of lasers is going to have ridiculous range, well beyond Book 2's 3-light-second scan limit. Also, the damage tables are different.

I've tried using the mayday pieces and movement along with Book 2 by changing the scale so that 1 hex=10,000km, and this works, depending how you interpret missile operation. In simple ship-on-ship actions, it really isn't far off from range band combat. It works nicely with most PC fights where ranges are generally hovering around 150,000km (15 hexes). Military or paramilitary stuff gets a little awkward, since you don't get enough hex-sheets to really deal with very long vectors.

 

[jawillroy]

It's not in expedition, god I wish it was, then I would have a solid foundation to build from.

Huh. Are you sure? Trying to remember. I feel pretty certain that one of the ships in that had a fusion gun mounted, and that they had numbers for someone who wanted to use it for LBB2 combat.

Maybe it was something in Supplement 7? Curse this rusty electronic brain of mine.

 

[infojunky]

You guys are obviously some way ahead of me in this. I have Mayday and Power Projection but I've never played them. I assume you consider them to be inadequate, otherwise you wouldn't be designing your own - what do think are the major drawbacks of these systems?

May day is a fine game, which is wired to one light second hexes and a sinplified ship and weapon set.

With that I just am reconciling MayDay to Book 2 Assumptions and expanding the weapon selection to include the basics from High Guard. Most notably the Bay Weapons and below.

The overall emphasis is how the PCs are involved in ship to ship combat.

 

[infojunky]

Huh. Are you sure?

Pulled it out and looked, and was hoping....

Trying to remember. I feel pretty certain that one of the ships in that had a fusion gun mounted, and that they had numbers for someone who wanted to use it for LBB2 combat.

Maybe it was something in Supplement 7? Curse this rusty electronic brain of mine.

I'll look there again but all that was in there was the PA Barbette with no works as rules.

 

[jawillroy]

Pulled it out and looked, and was hoping....

Ah, it's been years since I actually saw the book, so I could be wrong. I'm recalling it in the context of Rock & Pebble, I think.

 

[infojunky]

I'm recalling it in the context of Rock & Pebble, I think.

Nope, though I forgot how cool that adventure was.

 

[BillDowns]

infojunky,

I've played a lot of wargames based on Traveller over the years - I've always been into wargames more than rpgs. In combining the HG weapons with LBB2 movement, my usual thing is to use LBB2 base chance to hit plus all of it's DM effects, but base the "weapon" on a battery as in HG. For damage, I use HG tables, but use different modifiers. I first add 9, then subtract the USP weapon code, then add ship size. Also,I give a number of hits based on weapon code - ship size.

So, let's say 10 lasers (no matter how installed) are firing at a 300-ton target. The base chance is 8+ without range or other modifiers from LBB2. That gives a USP weapon code of 5 against a USP ship size of 3, so 2 damage hits. Each hit's DM is then 9-5+3, or +7 on the HG Surface table.

If you had 2 factor 8 Particle Accelerators firing at the same ship and get a hit, then you have USP 9 - 3 for 6 hits. Each hit's DM on the damage tables are 9-9+3, giving +3 overall on both Surface and Radiation tables. Odds are good the target is dead.

There are a lot of teaks that can be applied to this same sceme.

 

[Whipsnade]

Infojunky,

Check out the JTAS article that introduced the Gazelle-class close escort. I think that's where the fusion gun/particle acclerator stats for Mayday can be found.

Then again, I could be hallucinating again.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[BillDowns]

Infojunky,

I forgot to mention the easiest way I have incorporated HG weapons into LBB2 - Just use the HG battery factor as the number of hits on LBB2 damage table.

Stupid of me.....

 

[infojunky]

Infojunky,

Check out the JTAS article that introduced the Gazelle-class close escort. I think that's where the fusion gun/particle acclerator stats for Mayday can be found.

That's the article where I get the reference to Heavy Lasers from.

It also states to skew the hit results towards crew and electronics hits.

 

[infojunky]

Infojunky,

I forgot to mention the easiest way I have incorporated HG weapons into LBB2 - Just use the HG battery factor as the number of hits on LBB2 damage table.

For single weapons that is one.

Humm I might be better just figuring out Pen from striker.....

 

[BillDowns]

For single weapons that is one.

I have used it for batteries of weapons. As I recall, it worked pretty well.

My buddies & I who played also allowed Bay Weapons to be grouped into batteries with lettered USP codes. We never used Spinal Mounts - always despised the concept from the get go for major ships.

 

[sabredog]

This is what I currently use:

Expanded and modified High Guard/LBB2 rules to allow for small ship (5000 tons or less) combat.


Weapon Rules

Missiles – Per LBB2 missiles will always hit the target unless stopped by countermeasures. Missiles are fired at end of turn, and hit at end of following turn.

• ECM program stops all incoming missiles currently in flight on a roll of 7+
• Anti-Missile: Lasers can destroy one incoming missile on a roll of 8+ (+1/2 Gunnery skill, and +1 per laser in turret above the first one). Lasers used to fire on enemy targets are allowed to fire on incoming missiles.
• Sandcasters: Each incoming missile must save at 11- on 2D6 if sand is fired


Missile Types – Missiles may be fired from turrets or bays. Bay missiles (commonly called torpedoes) cannot be fired from turrets, but can be launched from ordnance hardpoints on small craft so equipped. A 50-ton missile bay fires 2 torpedoes at a time, a 100-ton bay fires 4.

• Standard HE: does 1D6 hits (less armor) applied randomly
• Standard HEAP: does 3 points damage (less armor) to one location
• HE Torpedo: as standard HE, but 3D6 hits
• HEAP Torpedo: 8 points damage (less armor) to one location


Energy Weapons – Each turret rolls only once to hit a target. All fired energy weapons in the turret hit on that single roll. For example, a triple laser turret firing all its weapons rolls once to hit, and then once on the location table for 3 points of damage against that location less armor.

• Beam Lasers – Beam lasers hit at 8+ (+/- appropriate DM) and do 1 point of damage each.
• Pulse Lasers – Pulse lasers hit at 10+ (+/- appropriate DM) and do 2 points damage each.
• Plasma / Fusion Guns – Both are short range weapons that can be fired from turrets and bays. Plasma guns do 3 points each, Fusion guns do 4. Bay versions are increased by 2 points.
• Particle Accelerator Weapons (PAW)-
• PAW turrets do 3 points damage (less armor) plus both crew and computer must save 9+ to avoid radiation damage. If failed the computer takes 1 point damage, crew take 1D6.
• PAW barbettes do 4 points (less armor) and 2 points/2D6 radiation damage
• PAW Bays 50-ton bays do 6 points damage (less armor) plus 4 points / 3D6 radiation damage. 100-ton bays do 10 points damage (less armor) plus 6 points/4D6 radiation damage.
Personal armor reduces radiation by that armor’s point value.

Sandcasters – Sand will stop incoming laser fire at a rate of 1 canister of sand per laser stopped. For example: a triple laser turret would do 3 points damage if it hit, but only 1 point if 2 canisters of sand had been fired.

• Sand is launched at the end of the turn and counts towards the next round of laser fire.
• Sand only lasts one round of laser fire.
• Launchers may only launch one canister per turn.
• Sand will not stop fusion/plasma guns or PAW fire.


Armor – Ships may be armored per High Guard rules.


Boarding Actions

In all matters concerning maneuver the ship with the highest agility rating will dictate the range between ships.

To board another ship, its vector and velocity must be matched. To force a boarding the attacking vessel must have a higher agility than the target. If this is the case then the pilot of the boarding vessel must roll 10+ (plus Pilot or Small Craft skill as DM) to match course and lock the craft together.

The high roll is to simulate any desperate maneuvering the target ship may try at the last minute.


Damage Control

Critical hits may not be repaired since the damage has destroyed the component.

Components damaged to zero cannot be temporarily repaired more than to half their original value. For example: a Jump-2 drive damaged to 0 and then repaired will only function as Jump-1 until permanent repairs can be made.

Turrets hit twice are destroyed and may not be repaired,

All repairs are considered temporary only and will fail after the next jump unless more permanent repairs can be made in a shipyard.

The time required to make a repair is equal to 2D6 combat man-turns minus appropriate skill level. For example: the Jump Drive takes two points damage in combat. The Engineer rolls 2D6 and gets 5…less Engineer-3 equals 2 combat man-turns to patch things up. It means the Engineer will need 2 turns working by himself, or only 1 if another character with Engineer skill helps.



...Sorry for the length. Some of the damage,like for PAWs may not seem enough, but it's more than sufficient when you consider that IMTU most civilian vessels are not armored or armed. Fusion/Plasma guns are the carronades in space, carried by the 1000 ton destroyers for close-in "clearing the decks" before boarding. Lasers are mainly for anti-missile/small craft defense. I also view PAW barbettes vs. turrets in a more traditional configuration: barbette being a heavier gun than what you'd fit in a turret. So I reversed what is in High Guard, besides, IMTU the average TL is only 13 so the turreted PAWs are not found.

 

[mike wightman]

JTAS 4 says to treat the particle accelerators as heavy lasers with a +2 to hit.

I took this to mean a triple laser turret, thus in my LBB2 house rules a particle accelerator turret is 5t, has a +2 to hit and has 3 damage roles on a successful attack.

I also use the radiation damage table from the missiles special supplement, so my latest version of house rules has 2 ragular damage table and 1 rad table hit - although I am thinking of switching it around to 1 regular damage and 2 radiation.

In mayday I would just give the PA the +2 on the to hit table.

 

[infojunky]

Saberdog, your post was great it is very simular to the lines I was thinking along. And is good food for thought. Probably need to bash the final document together then let y'all bash it.

Hum, I think i have my next step.