S4's Ammo Tweak for T5

[Supplement Four]

More of My Thoughts About the System in the OP.



Going by my experience at the range firing a small handgun that is difficult to aim (with a trigger that has a long reach), it's a good rule of thumb to say aimed single semi-auto takes about 3 seconds. One second to locate your target. Another second to stabilize and aim. And,then fire on the third second.

If this is true, then Aimed Fire could be used to fire 20 rounds in a minute.

Now, let's take off 15 seconds during that minute to replace a spent mag, shift position a bit, look over or around cover, or just plain wait for a target to present itself, and you're looking at Aimed Fire being about 15 rounds per minute--provided a target rich enviroment.

But, the enviroment doesn't always (and shouldn't always) have targets to fire at every moment. Thus, I took a leap and extended that 15 rounds, on average, to represent 3 minutes of combat time.

Therefore: Aimed Fire = 15 rounds per 3 combat rounds.



With SnapFire? Who knows? As Aramis says above, a person can easily go through several rounds in just a few seconds.

As an educated guess, (SWAG! I just learned that acronym!) I figured that SnapFire would be about double the rate of Aimed Fire.

And, for AutoFire, with 3, 4, or 5 round bursts, I figured triple the Aimed Fire rate. If you figure the same amount of trigger pulls, but fire 3 round bursts instead of a single round,then you spend triple the ammo.

Thus, my benchmark is:

Aimed Fire = 15 rounds per 3 combat rounds.

SnapFire = 30 rounds per 3 combat rounds.

AutoFire = 45 rounds per 3 combat rounds.





Also, as I said above, if a soldier uses an AutoRifle with a 30 round clip (as with an M-16), and the soldier is carrying four spare mags (for a total of 5 clips), then the rules in the OP will allow this soldier to fight in continuous combat for...

- Aimed Fire would use 1 mag every 6 minutes of continous combat. Five mags would last the trooper for half an hour.

- SnapFire would use 1 mag every 3 minutes on continuous combat. Five mags would last for 15 minutes.

- AutoFire would use 2 mags every 3 minutes of continuous combat. Five mags would last 3 minutes (up to as much as 5 minutes).



That seems pretty reasonable to me, given real-world considerations and the abstract nature of T5's combat system.

 

[BytePro]

If we did that, then how would you differentiate between two Joes, both carrying the same weapon, with one carrying a single mag and the other carrying five.

You could with DMs, but abstractly, it doesn't matter (random nature). Abstractly, the guy with less ammo is more likely to conserve.

You seem to disagree with most options I post, so I'm not surprised at your objection here.

Yes - but not as a matter of course. You're exploring T5 and sharing your first impressions. I'm enjoying your posts, just providing a different perspective.

Another Simple Ammo Tracking Thought....
...
Of course, that would need some adjustment for small or large clips (like the 32 round revolver or the rifle with the 100 round ammo box).

Its a good simple mechanic - for a given situation. As to that last, it embodies the problem with trying to track ammo mags concretely - not enough source info.

Thought about checking every round. One of the ideas I had in the other thread (linked in the OP) suggests this approach.

But, I think that's too cumbersome. I wanted a more simple rule--something very easy that still gets the job done.

Why check every round, then? Check when it seems appropriate.

Overall - tracking mags or tracking bullets - either way its extra accounting. Something you stated you didn't want, then plunged right into. Counting mags is not abstract - its concrete. Abstracting 'bullets', but then turning right around and accounting for number in a mag to handle standard exceptions (ala your 6-shooter example) just adds the same LOD requirements with a conditional abstraction. More rules complexity - and more importantly, an area that T5 makes no provision for.

I only track ammo units (ala 'bullets') when its appropriate, which generally is very rare (but happens even in my 'energy weapon' centric TU). I have no plans to directly use T5 RAW, but find discussion useful.

...
A guy on suppression fire can burn all 4-7 clips he's likely to have in a minute, easily, and most of that minute was spent changing mags... and changing mags can be as little as 5 seconds. Yes, you can dump a 30-round clip in 3 sec.

This.

That's an example of why a 'simple' universal rule, as in the OP, isn't really a good thing, IMO. Any good mechanics for handling ammo will allow for situational requirements. IMO, that means Ref judgement and a roll mechanic.

 

[Supplement Four]

More of My Thoughts About the System in the OP.

A few more thoughts...

The system is not as "averaged" as it might seem at first.

If a character uses a weapon with a 20 round clip, then...

Doing this--

Round 1: No fire. Another action performed.

Round 2: No fire. Another action peformed.

Round 3: Aimed Fire.

Then that character uses 1 magazine over those three minutes. All 20 bullets were fired during that last minute of combat.



And, that's the same as this--

Round 1: Aimed Fire.

Round 2: Take time to aim for a bonus next round.

Round 3: Aimed Fire.

The character still used one clip. He probably fired 18 or so in the first minute, then fired the last one or two bullets in the last minute, after aiming.




And...it's the same as this, too--

Round 1: Aimed Fire.

Round 2: Aimed Fire.

Round 3: Aimed Fire.

Here, the character still uses up only 1 clip. But, his 20 rounds is divided up among the three minutes of combat--and that can happen any way the Ref wants to describe it. Maybe he'll base it on the damage, if any, that was achieved.

 

[Spartan159]

Or...

If you want to do some more tracking, the ammo die could show you how many rounds fired from the weapon that round.

Aimed Fire: Shots equal to number shown on the ammo die.

SnapFire: Shots equal to number shown on the ammo die times two.

AutoFire: Shots equal to number shown on the ammo die times three.



You'd basically just add up total ammo. If you had 5 30-round magazines, then you'd have 150 rounds on you. Simply subtract that amount fired in a round from 150.

This is too much bookeeping for me, but it would work for those who want to track ammo closely.

I would be happy with this, especially as I am the type to have magazine sheets with check-boxes to keep track of usage.

 

[Supplement Four]

Yes - but not as a matter of course. You're exploring T5 and sharing your first impressions. I'm enjoying your posts, just providing a different perspective.

It's no different in the CT forum!

I'm starting to think you just like being a contrarian!

No worries, though. Just an observation. Our tastes in the game are obviously different.

Its a good simple mechanic - for a given situation.

I'm attempting a good, general rule--not a bunch of situational rules. That would make ammo tracking complicated and fussy.

Complicated and fussy is not my aim.

But, there's nothing wrong with a GM using the rule of thumb in the OP then tweaking ammo count on the spot.

Of course, that might open up a whole back of player griping, trying to get the most out of their few magazines.

I think it best, for T5, to just have a general rule, use it, and be done with it.

Overall - tracking mags or tracking bullets - either way its extra accounting. Something you stated you didn't want, then plunged right into.

No. I stated that I wanted a system to track ammo, but I didn't want to overly burden players or the Ref with a complicated system or extra bookkeeping.

The whole point of the rule and the thread is to present an easy-to-use, non-complicated method of tracking ammo without needless complication.

 

[Supplement Four]

I would be happy with this, especially as I am the type to have magazine sheets with check-boxes to keep track of usage.

Yes, I kinda like that, too. And, I might use something like that if I ever run T5.

I like the OP idea as well.

Both work for me.

 

[Supplement Four]

then there is the whole AP vs DSAP vs Ball vs hollow points issues.

At least for the slug throwers anyway.

Thought: Slug Thrower magazines of the future can be purchased in mixed ammo types?

I know someone who works in personal security. His advice is to mix your ammo in a clip. For example, the first round in your clip should be hard and piercing (armor piercing?), followed by a hollow point, then a ball, then a hollow point, and so on.

This is to allow your first shot to break through glass or wood or whatever, then the second bullet to go through the hole made by the first and do maximum damage to the target.

 

[Reban]

That varies by force and equipment.

The load bearing gear determines quite a lot about what standard carry will be.

Completely agree with you Aramis. I was using 5 magazines on issue as a very general survey just to establish a benchmark for Burden. Actually your point about load bearing equipment has an effect on that. Some equipment in general for carrying in T5 might modify Burden. The amount of ammo you carry, and how you carry it is always effected by the nature of the operation. Also everyone usually ends up carrying a belt/box/cassette for the automatic weapon. Dress and Armor don't really have to worry about Burden due to their huge strength mods so a lot of players might never face the problem of humping ammo.

More of My Thoughts About the System in the OP.

<snip>

Therefore: Aimed Fire = 15 rounds per 3 combat rounds.

<snip>

Thus, my benchmark is:

Aimed Fire = 15 rounds per 3 combat rounds.

SnapFire = 30 rounds per 3 combat rounds.

AutoFire = 45 rounds per 3 combat rounds.





Also, as I said above, if a soldier uses an AutoRifle with a 30 round clip (as with an M-16), and the soldier is carrying four spare mags (for a total of 5 clips), then the rules in the OP will allow this soldier to fight in continuous combat for...

- Aimed Fire would use 1 mag every 6 minutes of continous combat. Five mags would last the trooper for half an hour.

- SnapFire would use 1 mag every 3 minutes on continuous combat. Five mags would last for 15 minutes.

- AutoFire would use 2 mags every 3 minutes of continuous combat. Five mags would last 3 minutes (up to as much as 5 minutes).



That seems pretty reasonable to me, given real-world considerations and the abstract nature of T5's combat system.

I like this explanation of the benchmarks you are using. Just a couple of points from up-thread.

Gunmaker does define a Burst as three shots and automatic fire or Full as firing shots until the trigger is released.

I see where you got the 15 round benchmark by averaging between pistol and rifle mags.

Finally just a poke from a non American gun-nut but I'm surprised no one has started the rant/meme about "This is a magazine and this is a clip. Learn the difference!" :rofl:

Over all I'm enjoying the exploration.

 

[Supplement Four]

Gunmaker does define a Burst as three shots and automatic fire or Full as firing shots until the trigger is released.

Cool. Good to know. I need to read that section.

I see where you got the 15 round benchmark by averaging between pistol and rifle mags.

Plus, it's the most common for full-sized hand guns to have 15 round magazines. (I'm thinking 9mm. Your .45's and .38s would have less, of course.)

And, it's common for autorifles to have 30 round mags (I'm thinking the M-16 and many other assault rifles).

The 15 and 30 give use a good benchmark to start from. 15 for the handguns and 30 is twice the handgun.

I think I'll write a post on General Benchmarks to help out those players who are not as familiar with weapons and ammo capacity with real-world weapons.

Finally just a poke from a non American gun-nut but I'm surprised no one has started the rant/meme about "This is a magazine and this is a clip. Learn the difference!" :rofl:

I actually thought about that as I've been writing, but I think to most people, the terms "magazine", "mags", and "clips" are interchangeable. They don't really know the difference in a "clip" and a "mag".

So, I just went with it.

 

[Supplement Four]

BENCHMARKS


This post is to help the T5 Ref who is not as versed in real world magazine capacities.

The idea is to pick a close magazine capacity for a weapon and just go with it. Don't spend a lot of time in indecision. Use the benchmarks below.

Variations in magazine capacity by one or a few rounds will not have an effect on the OP rules or ammo usage. For example, if a handgun has six, seven, or eight round magazine capacity, it's still going to use two mags for 3 rounds of Aimed Fire and four mags for SnapFire in 3 rounds.



Benchmarks

Revolvers: 6 rounds.

Small Handguns (subcompacts): 6 rounds.

Handguns (full sized): 13-15 rounds

Handguns (full sized, large calibur): 8-13 rounds.

Rifles: 10-20 rounds.

Assault Rifles: 20-30 rounds.



Variation: There are 2-shot derringer-type pistols, and there are extended 30 round handgun mags that stick out of the weapon's handle and extend a length longer than the total length of the weapon. A weapon user can keep an extra round chambered. And, there are multitudes of ammunition types and sizes.

And, that's just in the real world. In the Far Future of Traveller, we can safely assume that the choices just become wider and deeper. Page 236 of T5 shows us a 32 round revolver. If a creative idea strikes you about a weapon, go with it. Make it fun. Make the weapon interesting. Also use QREBS (see page 190) to make the weapon believable.

You can always start with a benchmark and then tweak it, a bit: "This weapon is fed by a 20 round brick that inserts on the left side of the gun, just above the trigger, perpendicular to the grip. The rounds are held in the brick by a plastic guide that evaporates as the rounds are fired. The effect is that the weapon seems to eat up the brick as the weapon is fired, and steam from the evaporated plastic guide is funneled out of the weapon through a small port opposite the mag insertion point, next to the shell ejector. A fully loaded weapon is lopsided a bit as the brick extends out one side of the weapon, but as the ammo is fired, the brick becomes shorter and shorter."

The Guideline is to make a quick decision about a weapon, record it on the equipment sheet, and move on. But, don't be afraid to get a little creative with the weapon, if the mood strikes you.





Examples--

1. Page 236 shows us a picture of a Hunting Rifle, with no reference to ammo capacity. Looking at the pic, I make a quick decision that the weapon is breach loaded through the top of the weapon, and it holds about 10 rounds.



2. Page 238. The first weapon pictured is said to be a TL 6 Battle Rifle. I'm just going to use the Benchmark on this one. That looks like a 30 round magazine to me. Done.



3. Page 240. There's a weapon listed there with no illustration. It reads, "Rifle-5 R=5 Cr500 4kg Bullet-2". That tells me that it's a TL 5 rifle. It's a long range weapon with effective range out to Range Band 5, which is 1000 meters. The weapon costs Cr500. It weighs 4 kg. And, damage is 2D, meaning it's got decent penetration (2-12).

I'll just make some quick assumptions about this weapon and move on. First, it's probably got a fairly long barrel because of its range. And, the ammo is probably large rifle caliber because of the damage. It's a TL 5 weapon, so I can think about similar weapons in the real world from around 1930. That makes me think about early WWII weapons that I've seen in hundreds of movies (and played in computer games like Medal of Honor and Call of Duty). This makes me think of the M1 Garrand, the basic infantry weapon of WWII. (Don't forget that the internet can be your friend, for quick details.) So, let's just make this rifle akin to that one.

This rifle uses 30-06 Springfield ammunition, with an 8 round clip that inserts through the top of the weapon. Like the M1, this weapon will make a distinctive "ping" when the eighth cartridge is fired, alerting the weapon's user* that the weapon is out of ammo.

*That might be fun in a roleplaying situation if the warrior's enemy also knows that the "ping" indicates his gun is empty! Sounds like something to exploit if a Spectacular Failure is rolled.





Not Unlike UWP Assumptions: With CT, my great love of Traveller, I've always had a great time looking at the UWP digits and wondering how the world got to be that way. The "givens" led to some interesting creations that my players enjoyed.

I look at this magazine capacity figuring as no different that UWP guessing. It's a creative endeavor that the Ref can enjoy. Take what information you have about the weapon, then run with it, assigning educated guestimates to the weapon's stats and function.

 

[Supplement Four]

EASY-USE NOTES

Not that the rule in the OP is that complicated, one could just note on the equipment sheet the ammo expenditure of the weapon and be done with it.

For example, if the weapon uses a 30 round mag and is capable of both semi-auto, burst, and full-auto, then make a note like this:

Round 3 Ammo Usage

Aimed Fire Only? 1 mag. on round 6. (No mag. on round 3).

SnapFire? 1 mag.

AutoFire? 2 mags.





Take the Improved Pistol-6 shown on page 244. That pictured magazine is much longer than I would think, so I'll guestimate that's a smaller caliber weapon with, say, a 20 round magazine.

See that second trigger? The weapon is marked as "Improved". What does that second trigger do? From the pic, the weapon looks to have only one barrel. My first thought is that the magazine carries dual ammo--maybe 15 normal bullets and 5 explosive rounds. The second, lower trigger is used for the explosive rounds. This would account for the over-long magazine size.

But, instead, I'm going to rule that the weapon is capable of 3 round burst fire, and the mag holds 21 rounds (for 7 bursts). The second, lower trigger is used for burst fire.

Going with this second idea, I make the note on the equipment sheet--

Round 3 Ammo Usage

Aimed Fire Only? 1 mag.

SnapFire? 2 mags.

AutoFire? 3 mags.




Simple Principal.

Making this note on the weapon's sheet makes tracking ammo a no-brainer. Did you use Aimed Fire (or didn't fire) all three rounds? OK, use the Aimed Fire useage.

Did you use SnapFire at any time during the last three rounds? You did? OK, use the marked SnapFire useage.

Did you use AutoFire at any time during the last three rounds? Yes? OK, use the AutoFire usage.

Simple, simple.

 

[Spartan159]

Finally just a poke from a non American gun-nut but I'm surprised no one has started the rant/meme about "This is a magazine and this is a clip. Learn the difference!" :rofl:

Clip
Magazine
Magazine

Why rant when there's Wikipedia? (Grinning, Ducking & Running!)

 

[Reban]

EASY-USE NOTES

Take the Improved Pistol-6 shown on page 244. That pictured magazine is much longer than I would think, so I'll guestimate that's a smaller caliber weapon with, say, a 20 round magazine.

See that second trigger? The weapon is marked as "Improved". What does that second trigger do? From the pic, the weapon looks to have only one barrel. My first thought is that the magazine carries dual ammo--maybe normal 15 normal bullets and 5 explosive rounds. The second, lower trigger is used for the explosive rounds. This would account for the over-long magazine size.

But, instead, I'm going to rule that the weapon is capable of 3 round burst fire, and the mag holds 21 rounds (for 7 bursts).

Going with this second idea, I make the note on the equipment sheet--

Round 3 Ammo Usage

Aimed Fire Only? 1 mag.

SnapFire? 2 mags.

AutoFire? 3 mags.

I see what you're saying but I don't think thats a second trigger I think its a partial trigger guard to stop the index finger slipping behind the trigger and preventing you from using the weapon. Also GunMaker doesn't support different types of ammunition for the same weapon so no selecting between normal bullets and explosive bullets. But I see where you are going with color.

 

[BytePro]

It's no different in the CT forum!

I'm starting to think you just like being a contrarian!

No worries, though. Just an observation. Our tastes in the game are obviously different.

Your stated goals of simplicity and roleplay centric gaming are quite in line with my own.

Unfortunately, mechanically dealing with roleplaying flexibility generally entails complexity. Where that complexity sits is where we differ. I'm engaging in discussion hoping to help - and that you'll stumble on something I can really use.

As to tracking ammo with mags rather than rounds - if you are not going to have any mechanics for reloading, then you are just talking the size of the number tracked till out of ammo condition. RW weapons have a wide range of mag sizes. While 30 is common for an assault rifle - a useful bit for design - the most widely produced one in the world, the AK-47, ranges from 10 to 40 normally, but the widely issued Soviet RPK-74 uses a 45-round mag. In addition, most assault rifles support drums (75-100 rounds is common).

Then there is ROF.

And important munitions come in things other than mags - things like grenades (some AK-47 variants can fire 20 grenades per minute!).

Full auto is gonna eat up rounds a lot faster than anything else - the tiny multiplier in your mechanic doesn't seem adequate.

If I'm gonna track ammo, its gonna be by rounds - because the bigger number better supports rolling for amounts. Some xD6 by design for single fire. Times some number (3 or by design) for bursts. Times some other number (30 or by design) for full auto.

Also simple. And flexible. And reasonable believable. <shrug>

 

[Reban]

Now can I just throw a huge spanner out there and get your thoughts?

I've been comparing AimedFire, AutoFire and SnapFire on p218 and the Controls section from GunMaker on p256 that lists Single, Burst and Full. Here's the thing, I think they are entirely unrelated.

Single fires one shot. Burst fires three shots. Full fires shots until the trigger is released. I can't find any game effect related to these three modes. All we need to know for Personnel Combat is if the weapon is capable of automatic fire.

AimedFire requires you to stop, control your breathing and take careful aim as you pull the trigger.

AutoFire requires a weapon capable of automatic fire (reasoned by the +2D Damage) you can be moving but you are aiming.

SnapFire requires a weapon capable of automatic fire (reasoned by the +1D Damage) but is more of a spray and pray option (less Damage than given by taking aim in AutoFire).

You could be firing a single round in AimedFire, or a three round Burst or you could be firing the weapon on Full (aka Continuous for lasers and other weapons).



Does that affect your calculations Supplement Four? I'm not sure it necessarily does but for some weapons magazine usage might be much higher for AimedFire.

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I can't find anything that says I can't fire my machinegun on Full in AimedFire.

I also can't find anything that tells be if I fire an ACR-10 I do Frag-4 Bullet-2 but if I select Burst do I do 3xFrag-4 , 3xBullet-2

 

[Supplement Four]

T-5 NOTATION


I was also thinking that this rule can copy the T-5 notation style. Look at the two examples in post #31 above. With T-5 notation in mind, we could easily add these notes to the GunMaker weapon description.

The first example in post #31 would add to it's description, this:

AmF-0/1

SnF-1

AuF-2

That tells us, easily, that (when using the OP rule) the weapon will not go through an entire magazine on Round 3 if Aimed Fire is used, and if Aimed Fire is continued to be used, then it will use up a mag on Round 6.

If the weapon is used for SnapFire at any time during the three rounds, then 1 mag is used. And, if AutoFire is used, then 2 magazines are depleted.





Look at the second example in post #31. This weapon has a 21 round clip and is a handgun capable of burst fire. It would have the notation:

AmF-1

SnF-2

AuF-3





Let's look at the simple examples from the OP.

Weapon: Advanced Magnum Revolver-8 with 32 round spiral magazine (see page 236 T5).

AmF-0/1

SnF-1

AuF-2





Weapon: Gauss Rifle-12 with 100 round bullet reservoir. (See page 236 T5.)

AmF-0

SnF-0/0/1

AuF-0/1

This weapon has a lot of ammo. Using Aimed Fire only (about 5 rounds per minute), the single magazine will last for 20 combat rounds. It's a rare occasion when a Traveller combat last that many combat rounds. So the notation for Aimed Fire is 0--meaning, for all practical purposes, the weapon will never run out of ammo in any given firefight if only Aimed Fire is used.

The notation for SnapFire indicates that one mag is used up on Round 9. Again, this means that SnapFire can probably be used for an entire firefight, using up only one magazine.

Even with AutoFire, the weapon doesn't lose a magazine until Round 6.





Weapon: 8mm Battle Rifle with 10 round magazine. (See page 248 T5.)

AmF-2

SnF-4

AuF-6





Weapon: 8mm Battle Rifle with 20 round magazine. (See page 248 T5.)

AmF-1

SnF-2

AuF-3





Weapon: 8mm Battle Rifle with 30 round magazine. (See page 248 T5.)

AmF-0/1

SnF-1

AuF-2

 

[BytePro]

The nature of fire - single/burst/full auto - should affect the amount of damage.

The nature of aimed/snap/auto should affect accuracy.

 

[Supplement Four]

I see what you're saying but I don't think thats a second trigger I think its a partial trigger guard to stop the index finger slipping behind the trigger and preventing you from using the weapon.

Could be. I just saw it and ran with it. The example is more important than what that extra trigger looking thing really represents. I was trying to show how Ref's can make their weapons seem like they're from the Far Future. That's a lot more interesting than the same boring old weapons all the time.

Also GunMaker doesn't support different types of ammunition for the same weapon so no selecting between normal bullets and explosive bullets. But I see where you are going with color.

Yes, "game color" was the point. I haven't really read through GunMaker yet, but I'm thinking different ammo types can easily be added to the game by using the Effect rules.

I've seen some weapons described as doing X damage, then more damage or an effect if penetration is made.

A hollow point round could easily be simulated using this type of rule: Off the top of my head, let's say the hollow point does Pen-1 Bullet-2 damage, meaning that only 1D is thrown for penetration (low penetration), but if that succeeds, an extra 2D of damage is scored against the target. The extra 2D damage only happens when penetration is made. Otherwise, it's ignored.

I think something like that would work nicely for some ammo types.

Unfortunately, mechanically dealing with roleplaying flexibility generally entails complexity.

This is where we disagree. There are plenty of simple rules to represent a complicated process. CT is full of 'em.

I tend to write rules in the CT fashion--simple, easy-to-use and remember rules that make sense but aren't overly complicated.

As to tracking ammo with mags rather than rounds - if you are not going to have any mechanics for reloading, then you are just talking the size of the number tracked till out of ammo condition.

Tracking the mags is easy. See my new T5 Notation for weapons in post #36. This provides an easy method for the player to concern himself with ammo depletion.

The mags must have weight assigned to them--that will limit how much ammo a character carries.

And, the total amount of ammo (the number of mags), will help a player decide which type of Attack he's going to use: Aimed, Snap, or Auto Fire.

Otherwise, without this ammo mag tracking, the character will just use AutoFire every round. There's no real reason to use the other attack types.

Then there is ROF.

Simple rules, as in CT, tend to gloss over details like this. Or, the effect is considered with other parts of the game stats--such as damage.

ROF isn't really used in CT, except on the larger weapons shown in Book 4.

T5 doesn't seem to really consider it all that much for personal slug throwers either.

If I'm gonna track ammo, its gonna be by rounds - because the bigger number better supports rolling for amounts. Some xD6 by design for single fire. Times some number (3 or by design) for bursts. Times some other number (30 or by design) for full auto.

If you come up with a system, post it. I'd love to look at it.

I'm not proud. If I like your idea better, I'll jump ship from this one in a heartbeat.

The nature of fire - single/burst/full auto - should affect the amount of damage.

The nature of aimed/snap/auto should affect accuracy.

Now, you're talking about re-writing GunMaker.

 

[Supplement Four]

Does that affect your calculations Supplement Four?

Not really, for two reasons.

1 - As Ref, in a game, I wouldn't allow some weapons to use AutoFire. If a character used a revolver, for example. Most handguns will not be capbable of AutoFire (though, yes, I know, there are some hand guns, snub SMGs, and machine pistols that are very capable of AutoFire). So, I'd just make a quick determination and run with it.

Revolvers? Aimed Fire and SnapFire only.

Handguns? Aimed Fire and SnapFire only. AutoFire only in specifically noted cases.

Rifles? Look at the TL and design. Decide is AutoFire capable.

Always - leave room for flashy, neat, non-standard equipment, as with a 32 round revolver capable of high rpms and AutoFire!



2 - Since the combat round is so abstract, a round in which the player throws an Aimed Fire attack could actually represent a minute of combat time where the character fired 7 aimed shots but also took 2 SnapFire shots among the others: Aimed, aimed, aimed, snap, snap, aimed, aimed. The character only gets one attack for the entire round that since aimed fire was the predominate type of attack he made was Aimed Fire, then that's the type used--even though he did fire a couple of snap shots.

Also, the round is so abstract that the character could fire a single Aimed shot in on round, and in another combat round, he empties the magazine taking Aimed shots. Both rounds use the same attack throw with the same damage.

That's the nature of an abstract round. We don't really concern ourselves overly with details. We just assume things happen as they should--generally--and keep on gaming.

 

[BytePro]

If you come up with a system, post it. I'd love to look at it.

Er, I essentially just did.

Ammo used = roll xD6 for single fire (x default 1), times N for burst (N defaults 3), times Z for full auto (Z default 30).

Roll if number of combat rounds could result in out of ammo - or simply at end of combat. Depending, one could roll per round or simply multiply roll by number of rounds.

Alternately, you could do these rolls at the end of combat to determine how much ammo is left.

This accounts for non-mag munitions, ROF, etc.

Yes - I am a firm believer in simple, situational rolls in CT LBB1-3 fashion.

The nature of fire - single/burst/full auto - should affect the amount of damage.

The nature of aimed/snap/auto should affect accuracy.

Now, you're talking about re-writing GunMaker.

GunMaker?

Those are combat mechanics. My understanding is this is the way combat already works - or should, IMO. See Reban's post.

The other aspects I touched on would have no impact on GunMaker - only additional, optional, info (burst and auto fire counts), not any kind of change.