Okay, I know most everything in Traveller is metric. But, even in the far future, would the Imperial standard of feet, inches, yards and such still be used here and there?
SI system or Standard American Engineering?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
As far as I know, metrics is used (in the Solomani Confederation at least, the Vilani, Zhodani etc. probably have their own measuring systems). It seems to be used in most Traveller publications.
But of course, you'll get American worlds in the Confederation insisting on using the "imperial" system (quotes are to avoid confusion with Third Imperium systems).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I love the way you say American and then give the real term - Imperial 
Best thing the British Empire ever gave the world - a completely stupid system of weights and measures that has no internal consistency (without looking it up how many chains are there in a furlong?).
There are rumours that a few years back a Nasa mission to Mars missed the planet or crashed due to a mix up between imperial and metric units.
SI will be the only unit system in the future - until our robot overlords decide to use their superior base 3 system
Best thing the British Empire ever gave the world - a completely stupid system of weights and measures that has no internal consistency (without looking it up how many chains are there in a furlong?).
There are rumours that a few years back a Nasa mission to Mars missed the planet or crashed due to a mix up between imperial and metric units.
SI will be the only unit system in the future - until our robot overlords decide to use their superior base 3 system
I for one welcome our new overlords...oh wait ... what I meant was ....
On a marginally humorous side-bar, and I mean marginally in the most sincere form, during third semester physics when we were studying nuclear and theoretical stuff, our dear beloved professor told the engineering majors that a good chunk of American industry uses yet a third and fourth system of units not covered in any text (usually for military and large-industrial applications).
You never heard a bigger chorus of "Awe, come on! Give me a breaks!" in your entire life People were literally throwing their pencils at the floor, slamming text books shut, ... the works. After a year and a half of using SI, and converting from SI/metric to Imperial, to have that thrown in our faces was, well, not entirely welcome
So, in that spirit, I ask this question for Traveller.
On a marginally humorous side-bar, and I mean marginally in the most sincere form, during third semester physics when we were studying nuclear and theoretical stuff, our dear beloved professor told the engineering majors that a good chunk of American industry uses yet a third and fourth system of units not covered in any text (usually for military and large-industrial applications).
You never heard a bigger chorus of "Awe, come on! Give me a breaks!" in your entire life
People were literally throwing their pencils at the floor, slamming text books shut, ... the works. After a year and a half of using SI, and converting from SI/metric to Imperial, to have that thrown in our faces was, well, not entirely welcome So, in that spirit, I ask this question for Traveller.
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As I understand OTU, I guess most measures were adapted to the SI when the terrans united against the Vilani Empire (interstellar wars) and then exported to all the VE with the ocupation, and become standard units, more or less like Galanglic became the standard language.
That does not mean that no other units are used in the Imperium, just that they are the standarized measures used in interplanetary and scientific matters, as de standard day and year, that don't match with most planet's (in the case of the year, not even with Earth's, as there are no lap years), but are used to take account of Imperial time. I guess for local time counting, planetary days and years are also used.
That does not mean that no other units are used in the Imperium, just that they are the standarized measures used in interplanetary and scientific matters, as de standard day and year, that don't match with most planet's (in the case of the year, not even with Earth's, as there are no lap years), but are used to take account of Imperial time. I guess for local time counting, planetary days and years are also used.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
IMTU, the future measurement system is based on fundamental/universal quantities which are never revealed, and "all quantities used in the game have been converted to metric for the benefit of 21st Century Earth-based players".
Saves a lot of messing about.
Saves a lot of messing about.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
GT uses Imperial units (and hexes on deckplans), which is a PITA when converting.
I expect Vilani units will still be used by some people, just like Imperial ones are now.
I expect Vilani units will still be used by some people, just like Imperial ones are now.
Indeed, and there was much (IMO well-justified) wailing and gnashing of teeth over that choice when GT was first being written.
Hans
Sadly, not a rumor at all ... the 'metric mixup' resulted in the loss of a good fraction of a billion dollars in hardware, not to mention loss of data and secondary costs...
The MCO MIB has determined that the root cause for the loss of the MCO spacecraft was the failure to use metric units in the coding of a ground software file, “Small Forces,” used in trajectory models. ...
— Mars Climate Orbiter Mishap Investigation Phase I Report
ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/reports/1999/MCO_report.pdf
At least the prof let you know!Blue Ghost said:
I think in terms of 'Imperial' units (actually many have been modified from the original English and really are 'U.S. units' IIRC). But I convert everything to metric (which was a real PITA with small measures and the old inch to cm conversion factor) - heck I didn't even know that the inch had been redefined in metric terms (in the 50's IIRC) till just a few years ago.
IMTU I made up units of measure for ingame - that are based on metric, metagame.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Certainly fits with 1 gravity being 10 m/s squared.
The funny thing is that American engineering uses mostly metric to be iso compliant, but the SAE stuff remains for casual non-engineering.
BTW, for the Brits, Imperial is a different rational number system than SAE.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
We use metric mate - have done for a while now
We use metric mate - have done for a while now
Yes, I lived in Brixton South London for almost a year back in the 1980's, brought back an english girl with me and had to explain all the different measures.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I am tempted to make a wisecrack about not confusing cm with " but it may be taken the wrong way...
That's long been my take on the subject too, especially after attending metrology school in the Navy. I figured that, whatever the Imperial measurement standards are, they are a mishmash of earlier Vilani and Solomani standards. (All done in base 10 of course.)
Don't even get me started on local and alien standards...
Case in point, IMTU a parsec isn't quite the same as parsec we use to day. It's just that the maximum distance which could be achieved by a jump1 drive was rather close to the "classic" oarsec and so that term was co-opted.
leo knight
SOC-12
I've known one of my regular players since first grade. Back in the 70s, the US government/ Carter administration made a push to get everyone to "think metric". They put out conversion charts, calculators and nifty cardboard slide rules. I still have two of those. My friend maintained that it was un-American, and steadfastly refused to "think metric". He consistently raised a stink about it. I'm still not sure if he was serious, or if it was an elaborate put-on. We were in high school at the time, and this was one of the reasons our class voted him "Most Radical".
A little while ago, another friend of ours raised interest in running Traveller d20. Sadly, it never got past the rolling up characters stage. A few players complained about T20's use of metric. I still "think" in English units, but I've been converting back and forth for years, so it doesn't bother me. When someone squawked when told his character was 180cm tall, I would do a Lt. Data impression, put on a blank look and say, "About six feet". That went on all night.
A little while ago, another friend of ours raised interest in running Traveller d20. Sadly, it never got past the rolling up characters stage. A few players complained about T20's use of metric. I still "think" in English units, but I've been converting back and forth for years, so it doesn't bother me. When someone squawked when told his character was 180cm tall, I would do a Lt. Data impression, put on a blank look and say, "About six feet". That went on all night.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
No, they wouldn't. They'd use the English System (aka 'US Standard') for measurements. The differences between that and the Imperial System are subtle but very real, as any Englishman who orders a pint from an American bartender soon finds out.
Allowing the Sollies to avoid calling it 'Imperial' is just an added bonus.
Zing!No, they wouldn't. *sniperoo*
Allowing the Sollies to avoid calling it 'Imperial' is just an added bonus.
No, they wouldn't. They'd use the English System (aka 'US Standard') for measurements. The differences between that and the Imperial System are subtle but very real, as any Englishman who orders a pint from an American bartender soon finds out.
Allowing the Sollies to avoid calling it 'Imperial' is just an added bonus.
Probably calling it "English Traditional Measurements" (as many current US Texts call it) or "European Traditional Measurements" (even tho it wasn't standardized across Europe, it was close enough for unit names to be readily translated, even if off by a small bit; likewise the Japanese Shaku is pretty close to an ETC foot. It's even possibly called "Earth Traditional Measurement" to allow for the Shaku/Foot, and the Ken/Hiru (6 shaku, 1bay/6 shaku depth; directly equivalent to 2 yards or 1 fathom).
The Japanese Ri is roughly 4km, or just about 2.44 miles (12,880 feet), or 2.15 NM. The closely related Chinese and Korean measures
Assuming, of course, that it survives. It might go the way of the Chinese Modern units (imposed by the Commies) of units converted to exact multiples/fractions of meters.
