Slaved Turrets

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Meaning: If a target is on the left side of the starship, and the starship's single turret is on the starboard side of the vessel, then the target can be fired at normally as long as the ship doesn't change it's velocity.

Sometimes I do something similar with sand. Although I've played sand differently through the years.

But, sometimes, sand is held around the ship (like in the Mayday game), and if the ship changes velocity, it peeks out of the cloud.

The sand marker keeps on moving at the same velocity. I've played in the past that a ship can dive back into the sane if it can match vectors later in the scenario...but typically, I dispense with this hassel, reasoning that the sand is held by the sandcaster around the ship gravimetrically. When the ship leaves the cloud, there is no field holding the sand together, so it dissapates.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Meaning: If a target is on the left side of the starship, and the starship's single turret is on the starboard side of the vessel, then the target can be fired at normally as long as the ship doesn't change it's velocity.

Sometimes I do something similar with sand. Although I've played sand differently through the years.

But, sometimes, sand is held around the ship (like in the Mayday game), and if the ship changes velocity, it peeks out of the cloud.

The sand marker keeps on moving at the same velocity. I've played in the past that a ship can dive back into the sane if it can match vectors later in the scenario...but typically, I dispense with this hassel, reasoning that the sand is held by the sandcaster around the ship gravimetrically. When the ship leaves the cloud, there is no field holding the sand together, so it dissapates.

 

[BlackBat242]

Ah, but with those poker games you are dealing with multiple different opponents, and with different hands for yourself, right?

The "slaved turret" rule only allows those turrets to fire at the same target in the same round... so where is the "multi-task there?

The gunner is firing at one turret at one target... the computer is making the other turrets to copy his actions (with adjustments for the individual turret), but that part requires none of the gunner's mental processes.


If you want to have a modifier based on the computer's size or spare processing capacity, that would make sense.

 

[BlackBat242]

Ah, but with those poker games you are dealing with multiple different opponents, and with different hands for yourself, right?

The "slaved turret" rule only allows those turrets to fire at the same target in the same round... so where is the "multi-task there?

The gunner is firing at one turret at one target... the computer is making the other turrets to copy his actions (with adjustments for the individual turret), but that part requires none of the gunner's mental processes.


If you want to have a modifier based on the computer's size or spare processing capacity, that would make sense.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
Ah, but with those poker games you are dealing with multiple different opponents, and with different hands for yourself, right?

The "slaved turret" rule only allows those turrets to fire at the same target in the same round... so where is the "multi-task there?

It's a good point, no doubt. Puts a hole in my analogy and makes it leak a little water.

But...

We agree that a Gunner is necessary to operate Traveller starship weapons, yes? I mean, High Guard mentions gunners, and the Navy would do without if it was more efficient to fire weapons based solely on computer AI.

So, there's something for a Gunner to do when the weapon is fired.

OK. With agreement there, take one more step.

Consider a Type A2 Far Trader. 200 tons. Two hard points with two single laser turrents, one port and one starboard.

In considering the Far Trader, let me give you another analogy.

Let's say a new sniper rifle is invented in the real world. This thing is incredible. It's a SUPER sniper rifle, uses rocket propelled ammunition, sight-aided by a satellite aiming system. This new incredible weapon has a tested range of 1000 miles.

Yep, it's a super weapon. 1000 mile range.

Now, let's say you go to the highest skyscraper in Houston (I use Houston because I live here). You point your weapon north to Dallas, where on another skyscraper, a target has been set up.

You've got complete line of sight even though you can't see your target with the naked eye. When you look through the weapon sight, you see your target via the satellite aiming system.

You line up your target, put the cross hairs over the the bullseyes, and squeeze the trigger.

Will you automatically score a bullseye?

No. That's where your Rifle skill comes in.

See, distances in space combat are LARGE. A starship could easily be firing at a moving target 50,000 km (or more) away.

Since the Gunner must do something, he's got to play a part in aiming the weapon. Maybe the computer lines up a series of opportune times to fire the weapon, and the Gunner decides which of the opportunities are actually acted upon.

The Gunner is reading sensor data, operating the weapon's controls. Fine tuning. Maybe taking guesses.

And, at ranges of 50,000 km and the like, if the shot is off be even the smallest fraction of a degree (0.000001), then the shot will miss.

Now...

Back to your Type A2 above.

With turrets on both sides of the ship, each turret will require a different (slightly) firing solution even if both turrets are firing at the same object.

If your target is on the same relative plane as your ship, then it's even harder to achieve a shot because one turret must fire, and then the ship must be reoriented so that the second turret can fire.

And, thus, we see the gunner's multi-tasking....

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
Ah, but with those poker games you are dealing with multiple different opponents, and with different hands for yourself, right?

The "slaved turret" rule only allows those turrets to fire at the same target in the same round... so where is the "multi-task there?

It's a good point, no doubt. Puts a hole in my analogy and makes it leak a little water.

But...

We agree that a Gunner is necessary to operate Traveller starship weapons, yes? I mean, High Guard mentions gunners, and the Navy would do without if it was more efficient to fire weapons based solely on computer AI.

So, there's something for a Gunner to do when the weapon is fired.

OK. With agreement there, take one more step.

Consider a Type A2 Far Trader. 200 tons. Two hard points with two single laser turrents, one port and one starboard.

In considering the Far Trader, let me give you another analogy.

Let's say a new sniper rifle is invented in the real world. This thing is incredible. It's a SUPER sniper rifle, uses rocket propelled ammunition, sight-aided by a satellite aiming system. This new incredible weapon has a tested range of 1000 miles.

Yep, it's a super weapon. 1000 mile range.

Now, let's say you go to the highest skyscraper in Houston (I use Houston because I live here). You point your weapon north to Dallas, where on another skyscraper, a target has been set up.

You've got complete line of sight even though you can't see your target with the naked eye. When you look through the weapon sight, you see your target via the satellite aiming system.

You line up your target, put the cross hairs over the the bullseyes, and squeeze the trigger.

Will you automatically score a bullseye?

No. That's where your Rifle skill comes in.

See, distances in space combat are LARGE. A starship could easily be firing at a moving target 50,000 km (or more) away.

Since the Gunner must do something, he's got to play a part in aiming the weapon. Maybe the computer lines up a series of opportune times to fire the weapon, and the Gunner decides which of the opportunities are actually acted upon.

The Gunner is reading sensor data, operating the weapon's controls. Fine tuning. Maybe taking guesses.

And, at ranges of 50,000 km and the like, if the shot is off be even the smallest fraction of a degree (0.000001), then the shot will miss.

Now...

Back to your Type A2 above.

With turrets on both sides of the ship, each turret will require a different (slightly) firing solution even if both turrets are firing at the same object.

If your target is on the same relative plane as your ship, then it's even harder to achieve a shot because one turret must fire, and then the ship must be reoriented so that the second turret can fire.

And, thus, we see the gunner's multi-tasking....

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

BUT...HERE'S something we're not considering...


What if the technology for Slaving weapons is there....

...it's just that there's a LAW against firing a civilian weapon without one gunner per turret?

Maybe it's Imperial Law.

Starship lasers and missiles are serious pieces of hardware to let Joe Beercan use. We're not talking about a concealed handgun license here. We're talking about some major pseudo-military weaponry.

There's probably a lobby out there trying to push legislation in front of the emperor that will ban weapons of any kind on civilian starships.

Of course, the emperor will never sign such a bill into law be he knows (and the majority of Imperial Citizens agree) that weapons on civilian spacecraft is a necessary evil. Space is dangerous. Pirates and hostile aliens and cultures do exist. Civilians have to have weapons on their ships.

But, as a limiting factor, maybe...just maybe...Imperial Law states that no civilian weapon may be slaved to fire with another weapon unless that weapon resides in the same turret.

Sounds reasonable to me. It sounds like something the government would do. It supports Traveller canon. And, it make sense why High Guard military vessels obviously have slaved weapons in the form of batteries.

The Imperial governors know that weapons on civilian craft is a necessary evil. But, if Joe Beercan is going to be in charge of that much potential fire power, the government hedges it's bets with the law...

...One turret means one gunner. Two turrets mean two gunners. It's an intelligent, trained and licensed being who's responsible for pulling the trigger. And, the Imperium wants to keep the amount of damage that can be caused when Joe Beercan decides to hit the red "fire" switch. It won't be 12 weapons unleashed from the 4 triple turrets of a heavily armed 400 ton tramp freighter. It will only be 3 weapons. Each individual gunner making his own decision--knowing that if he's wrong...if he's breaking Imperial Law by firing his weapon...it will be him they'll charge with murder (and probably the ship's captain too).

Of course, gunners learn all of this when they are trained and licensed for their weapons.






Game ideas--

Pirates won't adhere to law, will they? So, it might be interesting for PCs to come across pirates with slaved weapons.

And, if the PCs steal that black market computer-aided slaving system, then it might be interesting the next time their software is checked during a normal customs inspection.

Lots of ideas for cool games...

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

BUT...HERE'S something we're not considering...


What if the technology for Slaving weapons is there....

...it's just that there's a LAW against firing a civilian weapon without one gunner per turret?

Maybe it's Imperial Law.

Starship lasers and missiles are serious pieces of hardware to let Joe Beercan use. We're not talking about a concealed handgun license here. We're talking about some major pseudo-military weaponry.

There's probably a lobby out there trying to push legislation in front of the emperor that will ban weapons of any kind on civilian starships.

Of course, the emperor will never sign such a bill into law be he knows (and the majority of Imperial Citizens agree) that weapons on civilian spacecraft is a necessary evil. Space is dangerous. Pirates and hostile aliens and cultures do exist. Civilians have to have weapons on their ships.

But, as a limiting factor, maybe...just maybe...Imperial Law states that no civilian weapon may be slaved to fire with another weapon unless that weapon resides in the same turret.

Sounds reasonable to me. It sounds like something the government would do. It supports Traveller canon. And, it make sense why High Guard military vessels obviously have slaved weapons in the form of batteries.

The Imperial governors know that weapons on civilian craft is a necessary evil. But, if Joe Beercan is going to be in charge of that much potential fire power, the government hedges it's bets with the law...

...One turret means one gunner. Two turrets mean two gunners. It's an intelligent, trained and licensed being who's responsible for pulling the trigger. And, the Imperium wants to keep the amount of damage that can be caused when Joe Beercan decides to hit the red "fire" switch. It won't be 12 weapons unleashed from the 4 triple turrets of a heavily armed 400 ton tramp freighter. It will only be 3 weapons. Each individual gunner making his own decision--knowing that if he's wrong...if he's breaking Imperial Law by firing his weapon...it will be him they'll charge with murder (and probably the ship's captain too).

Of course, gunners learn all of this when they are trained and licensed for their weapons.






Game ideas--

Pirates won't adhere to law, will they? So, it might be interesting for PCs to come across pirates with slaved weapons.

And, if the PCs steal that black market computer-aided slaving system, then it might be interesting the next time their software is checked during a normal customs inspection.

Lots of ideas for cool games...

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Maybe it's Imperial Law.

I like this. I think this just became part of my game.

-S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
Maybe it's Imperial Law.

I like this. I think this just became part of my game.

-S4

 

[BlackBat242]

Well, there is a practical reason for the "one gunner, one turret" "rule"... but it only really comes into play in situations with lots of ship-ship combat without much time for repair.

The Traveller crew setup basically makes the gunner also be the mechanic for his weapon system (except for the larger crew-served systems).

Thus, while one gunner (usually the most skilled) might do most of the shooting, the others are needed to keep the hardware working at full effectiveness... and to quickly repair damage to get the turret back into service.

While this might not be important for the 600t freighter that uses its guns once a year... maybe..., it does become very important for Pirates, Patrol ships, Armed Merchantmen escorting small convoys through a "high-risk" zone, Armed Merchantmen operating as Privateers or Naval Auxiliaries, and for Military vessels.


Thus, a ship with less than the "required" number of gunners is at a long-term disadvantage, and will suffer a steady degradation of the rating of its weapons systems... but might not actually suffer any short-term "to hit" penalty related to gunner skill.

 

[BlackBat242]

Well, there is a practical reason for the "one gunner, one turret" "rule"... but it only really comes into play in situations with lots of ship-ship combat without much time for repair.

The Traveller crew setup basically makes the gunner also be the mechanic for his weapon system (except for the larger crew-served systems).

Thus, while one gunner (usually the most skilled) might do most of the shooting, the others are needed to keep the hardware working at full effectiveness... and to quickly repair damage to get the turret back into service.

While this might not be important for the 600t freighter that uses its guns once a year... maybe..., it does become very important for Pirates, Patrol ships, Armed Merchantmen escorting small convoys through a "high-risk" zone, Armed Merchantmen operating as Privateers or Naval Auxiliaries, and for Military vessels.


Thus, a ship with less than the "required" number of gunners is at a long-term disadvantage, and will suffer a steady degradation of the rating of its weapons systems... but might not actually suffer any short-term "to hit" penalty related to gunner skill.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
The Traveller crew setup basically makes the gunner also be the mechanic for his weapon system (except for the larger crew-served systems).

Why wouldn't the engineer, with his electronics, his mechanical, and especially his engineering skill be the character that would fix a downed weapon system?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
The Traveller crew setup basically makes the gunner also be the mechanic for his weapon system (except for the larger crew-served systems).

Why wouldn't the engineer, with his electronics, his mechanical, and especially his engineering skill be the character that would fix a downed weapon system?

 

[BlackBat242]

Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

If anyone else is to repair it, they would have to move around the ship... while combat maneuvers are occuring (see the first page of the thread on "escape velocity" for a discussion of the hazards of such activity).

 

[BlackBat242]

Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

If anyone else is to repair it, they would have to move around the ship... while combat maneuvers are occuring (see the first page of the thread on "escape velocity" for a discussion of the hazards of such activity).

 

[BlackBat242]

Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

If anyone else is to repair it, they would have to move around the ship... while combat maneuvers are occuring (see the first page of the thread on "escape velocity" for a discussion of the hazards of such activity).

 

[BlackBat242]

Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

If anyone else is to repair it, they would have to move around the ship... while combat maneuvers are occuring (see the first page of the thread on "escape velocity" for a discussion of the hazards of such activity).

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

That's a good point, one which I've never considered. Engineers are assigne only based on engine tonnage. Whether a ship has no weapons or a couple of turrets or a type-T particle accelerator and half a dozen hundred-dton bays, you don't get any more engineers.

That makes a case for allocating weapos maintenance to gunners.

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
Turrets have only one crew assigned... the gunner.

That's a good point, one which I've never considered. Engineers are assigne only based on engine tonnage. Whether a ship has no weapons or a couple of turrets or a type-T particle accelerator and half a dozen hundred-dton bays, you don't get any more engineers.

That makes a case for allocating weapos maintenance to gunners.