Slavery in Traveller ( need not be OTU)
- Thread starter BwapTED
- Start date
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
In other words, it's in the open and it's legal.
Human trafficking and forced sex work are real things.
But I would agree that when one reads ''slavery'', one is likeliest to think of legal forms of forced servitude and human property.
I am.
Let's say the criminals fake a woman's death in low passage and then sell her to a planet where slavery is legal and common. That is slavery and kidnapping both, is it not? And fraud, too.
The slavery part is not a crime on the destination planet, natch.
... eh, disagree. true slavery (as opposed to kidnapping/extortion/coercion/laborTheft) exists where the slaves themselves acceed to their condition, i.e. agree that slavery is right and a natural form of human existence. they may not wish it for themselves, they may prefer to impose upon others rather than suffer it, but they themselves accept it as legitimate. we see this throughout the ancient western world, the ancient (and arguably the modern) eastern world, and as recently as throughout the ante-bellum united states south.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Which is the interesting part for ANY interstellar government, not just the OTU.
What is trade law between worlds?
Of course, not an issue if you have different interstellar polities with at least one that does business in slaving- but then the trade laws for that interstellar regime would be geared towards resolving slavery as property and anti-slavery worlds might have issues having it's values upheld.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Common sense definition re: jurisdiction, but still doesn't answer the Dred Scott question, whether a free planet person made a slave can be repatriated off a slave planet by X polity, or vice versa, a slave freed or runaway on a free planet be forced back into slavery by interstellar trade law.
I'm not sure what the right answer is for everyone, a messy set of rules of course creates all manner of adventure to be had, just that one cannot ignore the question needing to be answered in anything that is not a universal slavery outlawed universe.
Yeah, that is a good answer for settings in which:
"The Imperium'' exists.
and
It has outlawed slavery.
That describes the OTU. It doesn't fit a number of other TUs.
salochin999
SOC-13
During the era of the Barbary pirates slaves taken from Europe to North Africa could be ransomed back - sometimes by their families, sometimes in blocks with money raised by churches etc - and there were people who did that as a living.
Players hired to find and retrieve a 3I slave from a world beyond the frontier could be a thing.
'
Yes, if it's legal in some places but not in others then supplying the demand in the legal places may involve kidnapping especially where raiding would attract naval attention.
Players hired to find and retrieve a 3I slave from a world beyond the frontier could be a thing.
'
Yes, if it's legal in some places but not in others then supplying the demand in the legal places may involve kidnapping especially where raiding would attract naval attention.
the question was "what is trade law between worlds?" who said anything about outlawing slavery? it's a perfectly good answer.
ok. "[fill in the blank] rules the space between the stars." milage varies, but I would say that in a non-canonical tu slavery will be very common ("raw profit red in tooth and claw rules the space between the stars") and that even in a canonical otu slavery would be very common except for simple residual sentiment left over from various religious veiws the discussion of which are prohibited here.
Context, yo.
Good point!
That covers a lot of ground.
"Free labor" is not the same thing as just outlawing chattel slavery.
Serfdom of some sort seems like a fitting companion to the "space feudal system" depicted in some OTU materials.
Right. Transit doctrine could come into play.
Outlawing slavery in the Imperium might mean that no slave taking or slave selling is allowed in space, on space stations, or at star-ports within the extrality line. The Imperium owns no slaves and does not use slave workers. No slaves on Capitol. Slave owners have to abide by Imperial laws in such areas, and pay their workers something.
But is a slave set free merely by crossing the extrality line or hopping on a starship?
Or does the Imperium allow for fugitives to be returned?
Canon OTU Imperium seems to outlaw slavery on member worlds. When did this become official?
I always assume it was inspired by Piper's TerroHuman Future History.
A Slave is Slave...
There is a whole extra set of assumptions that tend to go with the modern perspective/understanding of "slavery" that also doesn't always fit with historical models. At various points in history and culture some slaves could own property, get married, be paid, have various legal protections, have children (who might or might be slaves), and even, IIRC, own other slaves.
Imagine some system where, technically, every citizen is owned by the king/emperor/grand poobah. This has no real effect on life, save that they have some limits on actual immigration (or don't, but still have taxes or some other fee to pay, etc).
As was touched on earlier, "slavery" is a relatively amorphous term, and even the "Imperial standard" leaves a great deal of room for interpretation. I expect that even in the OTU there is a fair amount of room to various forms to exist.
What might be interesting is if what the actual Imperial law bans is human trafficking rather than slavery per se. That gets the Imperium out of messy definition issues and into the more definable - no sophants as cargo or commodity. There is still some ways to dodge the definition (company stores, prison labor, etc) but they start to get more specific rather than legal wrangling over marriage contracts, feudal vassalage, or religious orders...
D.
Imagine some system where, technically, every citizen is owned by the king/emperor/grand poobah. This has no real effect on life, save that they have some limits on actual immigration (or don't, but still have taxes or some other fee to pay, etc).
As was touched on earlier, "slavery" is a relatively amorphous term, and even the "Imperial standard" leaves a great deal of room for interpretation. I expect that even in the OTU there is a fair amount of room to various forms to exist.
What might be interesting is if what the actual Imperial law bans is human trafficking rather than slavery per se. That gets the Imperium out of messy definition issues and into the more definable - no sophants as cargo or commodity. There is still some ways to dodge the definition (company stores, prison labor, etc) but they start to get more specific rather than legal wrangling over marriage contracts, feudal vassalage, or religious orders...
D.
caring not to infringe on the rule about real world politic:
Ask yourself: what laws & régulations prevent slavery, proto-slavery or neo-slavery to exist in my neck of the wood?
Alter one of those rules and you have the potential for some form of servitude.
The involuntary servitude is usually dealt with with criminal statutes dispositions.
The "voluntary" servitude is usually dealt with by civil law dispositions
EX: If you signed a "99 years work contract" in a jurisdiction that does not allow workers to leave their employment, (break a work contract) - you are not personnaly a property of the contract owner, you own property, get married without asking permission and have your own house and bank account- but are you free? In my neck of the wood Art 2091 Civil code, Québec make various form of neo-slavery impossible. However, once you willingly sign Ship's Articles, (and fall under Federal jurisdiction) jumping ship is illegal. Article dating back to WWII make a merchant sailor jumping ship the equivalent of a military deserter.
Make the exercise in your jurisdiction and you may discover that Freedom is floating on a straw.
Have fun
Selandia
Ask yourself: what laws & régulations prevent slavery, proto-slavery or neo-slavery to exist in my neck of the wood?
Alter one of those rules and you have the potential for some form of servitude.
The involuntary servitude is usually dealt with with criminal statutes dispositions.
The "voluntary" servitude is usually dealt with by civil law dispositions
EX: If you signed a "99 years work contract" in a jurisdiction that does not allow workers to leave their employment, (break a work contract) - you are not personnaly a property of the contract owner, you own property, get married without asking permission and have your own house and bank account- but are you free? In my neck of the wood Art 2091 Civil code, Québec make various form of neo-slavery impossible. However, once you willingly sign Ship's Articles, (and fall under Federal jurisdiction) jumping ship is illegal. Article dating back to WWII make a merchant sailor jumping ship the equivalent of a military deserter.
Make the exercise in your jurisdiction and you may discover that Freedom is floating on a straw.
Have fun
Selandia
Historically after the British Empire banned (or at least renounced) slavery the Royal Navy was mandated to suppress the slave trade by inspecting and seizing slaver ships leaving West Africa.
Slaves found aboard ship were returned to the RN West Africa Squadron base which became "Freetown".
ObTrav: some of those people hanging around the Startown around any planet's starport could be freed slaves looking for a way to get home or looking for a way to regularize their status on the planet easily traversing the grey area between slave and foreign worker.
Yep, and the Brits abolished chattel slavery in their own territories in the sensible fashion.
This may be relevant to Traveller. How does the Imperium (or some other inter system government in your setting) suppress illicit commerce and enforce bans on certain things that affect even planetary governments?
This may be relevant to Traveller. How does the Imperium (or some other inter system government in your setting) suppress illicit commerce and enforce bans on certain things that affect even planetary governments?