Small Ships/Big Ships Redux
- Thread starter Vargas
- Start date
Sounds like a great idea to me!
kaijupanda
SOC-9
While I do tend to like the smaller stuff, I'd like to be able to go as large as I want, though as I think more about it, option 2 would have been a better one. I don't necessarily want my players running around in some crazy big death star thing jumping through the universe. I mostly would like to see how the epic-sized ships would turn out.
Generally speaking, I gravitate towards ships of 5,000-ton or less, as anything bigger is usually outside the power scale of PCs; in fact, I prefer a universe where the Imperial Fleet is 4x 1,200-ton Battlecruisers per subsector - much more manageable than multiple multi-kton ships per subsector and some megaton (IIRC) Tigresses per sector.
There is, however, an oft-forgotten element of LBB2 ship design: you can have Jump-6 ships at a low tech-level, BUT the big ships are slow (5kton only gets 2g or j-2 at most at TL15, IIRC). This means that different ship sizes have different roles, and a dreadnought or carrier can't keep up with scouts and fast gunboats.
There is, however, an oft-forgotten element of LBB2 ship design: you can have Jump-6 ships at a low tech-level, BUT the big ships are slow (5kton only gets 2g or j-2 at most at TL15, IIRC). This means that different ship sizes have different roles, and a dreadnought or carrier can't keep up with scouts and fast gunboats.
The biggest ship I've used in an adventure is the 1000T Tukera Longliner, but my setting isn't confined to what the PCs encounter. There's a much bigger universe out there, and it has its super- and hyper-freighters and its heavy cruisers and dreadnaughts. It's just not something PCs are likely to encounter (Though at one point I came within an ace of doing a dungeon-crawl through an AHL).
Hans
I agree, the epic super-dreadnaught is just scenery unless it is time for a dungeon crawl through one.
No limits was what I chose, mostly for the reason that most PC groups would never be large enough and wealthy enough to get something much over 1000Dt anyway, This way the really much larger ships of the Imperial Fleet will always retain that "shock and awe" factor that it should have. This would give the most seasoned group pause if their Merc Cruiser gets a "request" to heave to by a 10KDt battlecruiser! This is a good way to deflate a few ego's if that becomes necessary!:rofl:
If playing in CT, with Bk7 skills available, I've seen PC's amass multiple gigacredits. At GCr 1, most any ship under 50KTd is affordable.
Somewhere in the middle
I did some re-balancing on High Guard at one point to bring the extremes of size down - I was after a light cruiser in the <=10kt range and a battle cruiser somewhere around 20kt with the largest ships getting up into the 10's of Kt, mainly freighters, tankers, fleet carriers and suchlike. This was originally driven by some balance issues with High Guard and a setting with a lower population and economic base.
I did some re-balancing on High Guard at one point to bring the extremes of size down - I was after a light cruiser in the <=10kt range and a battle cruiser somewhere around 20kt with the largest ships getting up into the 10's of Kt, mainly freighters, tankers, fleet carriers and suchlike. This was originally driven by some balance issues with High Guard and a setting with a lower population and economic base.
I think that a party of adventurers can't really run anything more than a few hundred tons without needing a gaggle of redshirts to make up the numbers. Once you go into larger spacecraft the nature of the campaign has shifted from adventuring to something else.
The difference between running a a captain, purser/supercargo, and engineer with a backup and without is minor; the difference between 6 NPC's aboard and 600 is almost trivial in terms of play.
There's more difference between 3/60 aboard being PC's and 12/60 aboard than between 6/60 and 6/600.
Back in the day, I used to play a fair bit of Star Trek RPG (FASA version). So the idea of a handful of PCs in charge of a large ship (like a Constitution class) with loads of NPCs seems normal to me. IMTU, I've had PCs be:
- Police detectives (no ship),
- Crew a Gazelle CE (in charge of small ship),
- Be the odd job squad for an Imperial fleet during the 5FW (multiple big ships but not in charge), and
- Serve as the command crew of an AHL (in charge of big ship).
Whether you have no NPCs, a few NPCs, or lots of NPCs ... it's all good.
- Police detectives (no ship),
- Crew a Gazelle CE (in charge of small ship),
- Be the odd job squad for an Imperial fleet during the 5FW (multiple big ships but not in charge), and
- Serve as the command crew of an AHL (in charge of big ship).
Whether you have no NPCs, a few NPCs, or lots of NPCs ... it's all good.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
This is much the same as my experience. As a GM, howoever, I like an upper limit of about 10 Kt. for super battleships and megafreighters only.
no limits. though to be sure most people don't know what to do with big systems anyway and so limit themselves.
well, in terms of the pc's, yeah, it's all span of command.
but npc's have lives too, and when there's a lot of 'em there's issues.
well, in terms of the pc's, yeah, it's all span of command.
but npc's have lives too, and when there's a lot of 'em there's issues.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I think it's a question of scaling, and establishing an ambiance; you'd have to give a reason why navies aren't pushing the boundaries on ship displacements.
the only reason that works at all is to say that just like jump can't operate on a ship less than 100 dtons, it can't operate on a ship greater than lbb2's max of 5000 dtons.
'course there are lots of consequences to that.
1) sdb's can easily defeat jump-capable ships
2) in-system economies get far more attention than out-system economies
3) smaller cargos mean trade profits go WAY up
4) civilian ships are combat peers to jump-capable naval and pirate ships
etc.
and all this time people were talking about dense, superdense, bonded superdense ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Mw6L69b6Y
eh, maybe. looking at the cover of the box set for snapshot one notices the hull plates are riveted together ....
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Might be armour plating.
