So, How many RUs for how many years...

[pendragonman]

How many RUs does it take to "build" an E class starport? How long does it take to put into service?

There is a bigger question out there. How many RUs invested over how many years does it take to upgrade a D to a C, C to B, B to A?

What starports come with a high port? If I want to add a high port, how many RUs does it take, and how long does it take to come online?

 

[robject]

Great questions. I would start decomposing the problem by looking at the RU for various generic random worlds and making some observations.

For example, what's the lowest RU for which there is a Class A starport? What does that say about RUs and Starport maintenance?

Then, what's the average RU (is there a meaningful average) for Class A and Class B starports? If so, then that may be an indicator of what it takes to upgrade from a B to an A.

And so on.

 

[rancke]

How many RUs does it take to "build" an E class starport? How long does it take to put into service?

There is a bigger question out there. How many RUs invested over how many years does it take to upgrade a D to a C, C to B, B to A?

What starports come with a high port? If I want to add a high port, how many RUs does it take, and how long does it take to come online?

You'll need a way to establish the exchange value between RUs and credits to answer that question. But guesstimating that RUs are worth a lot, I'd say a small fraction of an RU to establish a Class E starport. I'll also suggest that better starports are built organically, if that's the word I want, as trade and traffic grows.

For example, the difference between a Class B and a Class A starport is whether or not there's a shipbuilding industry in the system. So the starports themselves can be completely identical (thus costing exactly the same to establish).

Likewise, turning a small Class D starport into a small class C starport would probably cost less than turning a large Class D starport into a large Class C starport.

So the answer to your question is, IMO: 'There is insufficient information to say'.


Hans

 

[robject]

You'll need a way to establish the exchange value between RUs and credits to answer that question.

Taking that route, you'd also need a way to establish the cost of building starport thingies, in credits. And then hope that it jibes with the RUs for, say, the Spinward Marches.

 

[Vladika]

For example, the difference between a Class B and a Class A starport is whether or not there's a shipbuilding industry in the system. So the starports themselves can be completely identical (thus costing exactly the same to establish).
Hans

A starship building industry.

Realistically, how much harder, or expensive, can that be?

If a jump drive can be swapped out in space (HG2/TCS) then why not at a Class B shipyard? Particularly a large one capable of 10,000dt ships.

 

[Vladika]

Unless the "RU" both becomes/is the official economic unit AND we decide once and for all how each world generates them, we are again wasting time figuring out how to spend them.

Then we are off to tax rate, amount of GWP spent on the military and how much each branch gets...oh, and if there is a Imperial Army to fund...:CoW:

 

[rancke]

Taking that route, you'd also need a way to establish the cost of building starport thingies, in credits. And then hope that it jibes with the RUs for, say, the Spinward Marches.

Yes, indeed. But the method does have the advantage that the figures will be plausible and not just pulled out of a hat.

No, wait, we don't need to worry about jibing with the RUs for the Spinward Marches (or anywhere else), because the starports have already been built.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

Yes, indeed. But the method does have the advantage that the figures will be plausible and not just pulled out of a hat.

No, wait, we don't need to worry about jibing with the RUs for the Spinward Marches (or anywhere else), because the starports have already been built.


Hans

I still want a Class "A" shipyard on Deneb... And at TL15...

There are a few places in the Spinward Marchs that could also stand an upgrade.

 

[robject]

Well, I have done some preliminary basic analysis, just looking at starport and RU in comparison for a sector's worth of worlds, and have these observations:

OBSERVATIONS

Classes D and E appear to live nearly entirely in the negative RU ranges. It could be that my dataset is bogus.

Class C is all over the place, but in the set I have rarely (four times in a sector-sized area) climbs above 600 RU.

Classes A and B are also all over the place, but there appear to be NO Class A's with negative RU, and few B's (eight times).

Regardless, from (say) 10 RU up through 9000 RU, there seems to be a more or less equivalent distribution of Class A and B starports.


CONCLUSIONS

A Class E starport is trivial to build. A can of spray paint on a hunk of flat bedrock.

Similarly, a Class D only requires minimal infrastructure and effort, and probably takes under a year to create what passes for a Class D.

A Class C probably requires investment; I would say that the fact that a world is a Class C with a negative RU says more about the past of a world rather than its present. Looking at the median RU for Class C worlds, I would say a world needs RU 100 to build a Class C starport. I do not know how many years it would take to build it.

Now, taking the medians again, a Class B starport seems to require a world sustaining a RU 1000 economy for some number of years. This is backed up by the fact that most Class C starports are on worlds with economies below RU 600.

Finally, the Class A starport appears to require a world with RU 3000 (again, for some number of years). Having that high of an RU does not guarantee a class A starport: it merely suggests a point at which a world may consider directing those resources toward building one.

In fact, the presence of plenty of Class B worlds with exceedingly high RUs indicates that there are other long-term priorities in front of upgrading one's starport. That may suggest infrastructure, technology, trade war, inefficiency, market shifts, who knows what else.

In other words, get to Class B as soon as possible, but then many other things become more important.

 

[rancke]

A starship building industry.

Realistically, how much harder, or expensive, can that be?

If a jump drive can be swapped out in space (HG2/TCS) then why not at a Class B shipyard? Particularly a large one capable of 10,000dt ships.

That's why I've long championed the notion that a starport class doesn't depend on what can potentially be done at the starport, but on what is actually currently being done at the starport¹. If a starport is fully capable of buidling and maintaining starships but for some reason refuses to provide such services to any ship not registered to that world, then the Scouts give it a class E rating.

¹ Yes, I know there is an empty world with a class A starport that BtC explains as a mothballed starport with shipbuilding capacity that isn't being used at the moment. I don't consider that an explanation that works.​

That's how I explain why Forine's starport is only Class D, despite Forine being, and I quote from canon, "the primary producer of processed and refined metals and minerals for the subsector". Here's a paragraph I wrote to explain it (not canon):

"Forine's starport would be Class A if it wasn't too small for the traffic it has to handle. As it is, casual visiting ships cannot be sure of getting even elementary service in reasonable time, reducing its official class to D. This state of affairs has been chronic since 1104, when a construction workers' strike resulted in riots and extensive destruction of starport facilities. Every attempt to solve the conflict and remedy them since then has proved a temporary stopgap at best."​

Hans

 

[rancke]

OBSERVATIONS

Classes D and E appear to live nearly entirely in the negative RU ranges. It could be that my dataset is bogus.

What about Forine? Pop 9, starport D.

CONCLUSIONS

A Class E starport is trivial to build. A can of spray paint on a hunk of flat bedrock.

And a beacon. Probably a small shack to house it too.

A Class C probably requires investment; I would say that the fact that a world is a Class C with a negative RU says more about the past of a world rather than its present. Looking at the median RU for Class C worlds, I would say a world needs RU 100 to build a Class C starport. I do not know how many years it would take to build it.

We still have negative RUs? :nonono:

Now, taking the medians again, a Class B starport seems to require a world sustaining a RU 1000 economy for some number of years.

Finally, the Class A starport appears to require a world making RU 3000 (again, for some number of years).

Pixie? Uakye? Boughene?


Hans

 

[Vladika]

That's why I've long championed the notion that a starport class doesn't depend on what can potentially be done at the starport, but on what is actually currently being done at the starport¹. If a starport is fully capable of buidling and maintaining starships but for some reason refuses to provide such services to any ship not registered to that world, then the Scouts give it a class E rating.

¹ Yes, I know there is an empty world with a class A starport that BtC explains as a mothballed starport with shipbuilding capacity that isn't being used at the moment. I don't consider that an explanation that works.​

That's how I explain why Forine's starport is only Class D, despite Forine being, and I quote from canon, "the primary producer of processed and refined metals and minerals for the subsector". Here's a paragraph I wrote to explain it (not canon):

"Forine's starport would be Class A if it wasn't too small for the traffic it has to handle. As it is, casual visiting ships cannot be sure of getting even elementary service in reasonable time, reducing its official class to D. This state of affairs has been chronic since 1104, when a construction workers' strike resulted in riots and extensive destruction of starport facilities. Every attempt to solve the conflict and remedy them since then has proved a temporary stopgap at best."​

Hans

I agree, though grudgingly. (It DOES make sense.) What I don't like is what that does to the Spinward Marches in particular.

All that being said...Someone explain how Deneb has the Imperial Jump Institute, yet can't build a jump ship? (Thanks to DonM I've read about the indigenous lunatic "seals". Genocide is in order here.) Deneb should be TL15 and Class A.

 

[robject]

What about Forine? Pop 9, starport D.

Pixie? Uakye? Boughene?

Hey, if all you can find is four exceptions, then we're doing well. Now compare the entire dataset and see what you get...

 

[rancke]

Hey, if all you can find is four exceptions, then we're doing well. Now compare the entire dataset and see what you get...

Those are a handful that I came up with in ten seconds. I'm confident that I could find a lot more if I thought it would be any use.


Hans

 

[robject]

That's why I've long championed the notion that a starport class doesn't depend on what can potentially be done at the starport, but on what is actually currently being done at the starport.

This is quite reasonable, but sanity suggests that the two are typically the same.

 

[robject]

Those are a handful that I came up with in ten seconds. I'm confident that I could find a lot more if I thought it would be any use.


Hans

Yeah, I don't have the Spinward Marches spreadsheet handy, otherwise I would have used it. If I remember to run it through my analysis script, I'll post the resuts.

 

[Garnfellow]

In Imperial space, doesn't the Starport Authority site, construct, and operate these things? Meaning the funds come out of some general fund and not out of the world's budget.

 

[Vladika]

In Imperial space, doesn't the Starport Authority site, construct, and operate these things? Meaning the funds come out of some general fund and not out of the world's budget.

What's this! Reason! Logic! What's this board coming to?

Actually, IIRC, the starport is a separate entity from the shipyard. That opens another :CoW:

 

[rancke]

In Imperial space, doesn't the Starport Authority site, construct, and operate these things? Meaning the funds come out of some general fund and not out of the world's budget.

The SPA runs the starport (or the Imperial starport if there are more than one). Who builds it is not specified (unless it's mentioned in GT:Starports). It probably varies from world to world. The SPA could build it itself or lease the land to someone else.


Hans

 

[tjoneslo]

The SPA runs the starport (or the Imperial starport if there are more than one). Who builds it is not specified (unless it's mentioned in GT:Starports). It probably varies from world to world. The SPA could build it itself or lease the land to someone else.

According to GT: Starports, the port itself is funded by fees level against both the cargo and passengers moving through the port. More if you are stopping by the world, less if you are simply passing through.

The last column in the trade map data posted in the wiki is "SPA Pop", which uses that calculation, then converts that to the number of people running the starport. Multiply the number by MCr0.2 to find the full budget for running and expanding the port.

In theory the SPA build, or expands, the port from this budget (GT: Starports has the rules). For worlds outside the Imperium, the funds either come from levying a similar fee structure, straight from taxes on the population, or, more likely, tariffs on imports and exports.