Some Interesting Military Data

[whartung]

Oh I bet the Model Railroaders down there eat this stuff up.

Funny I've never heard of it before.

 

[BlackBat242]

Main gauges:

Standard gauge — 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm) standard gauge 17,678 km—mainly New South Wales and the interstate rail network.
Narrow gauge — 3 ft 6 in (1,067 mm) gauge 15,160 km—mainly Queensland, Western Australia and Tasmania as well as some of South Australia. The term "Cape gauge" is rarely used in Australia.
Broad gauge — 5 ft 3 in (1,600 mm) 4,017 km—mainly Victoria, some South Australia, some Victorian Railways branch lines extending into southern New South Wales. The term "Irish gauge" is rarely used in Australia.

Other gauges:

Narrow gauge — 2 ft 6 in (762 mm) 28 km (Victorian Railways narrow gauge)
Narrow gauge — 2 ft (610 mm) 4,150 km (sugarcane tramways)
Dual gauge — 281 km

Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics (2002)

Of the networks constructed by the various government railways, there have been a variety of rail gauges:

Cane tramways, mainly in Queensland are 2 ft (610 mm), but these carry very little through traffic so that the break-of-gauge is not a problem.
Victoria had four short 2 ft 6 in (762 mm) lines for general traffic
Private timber tramways used a variety of gauges
Private, isolated and heavy duty iron ore mining railways all use the standard gauge of 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in (1,435 mm)
Temporary lines at construction sites, such as the 3 ft 6 in (1,067 mm) gauge railways used for the development of the national capital at Canberra between 1913 and 1927, including the original Parliament House and 2 ft (610 mm) construction line to Burrinjuck Dam

 

[Timerover51]

You want a study in confused gauging affecting rail transport, the American Civil War on both sides had SERIOUS gauge issues, on a continental scale.

It was much more a problem for the South than the North. Black's
Railroads of the Confederacy is a marvelous study of the problems the South had.

 

[Timerover51]

Those are the same three principal gauges mentioned in the Australian history, and it is 75 years later. That is what I called resistance to change and the inertia of existing systems. A narrow gauge railway has significantly lower carrying capacity than standard gauge.

BlackBat, thanks so much for the information. Now, if I can just figure out how to plug that into the Australian Rails game by Mayfair that I love to play.

 

[samuelvss]

My father went into action at Monte Cassino aged 18 and in his first engagement bayoneted a German soldier when they ran into each other by surprise in the rubble. He told me he couldn't pull it out (probably stuck in the guy's spine) and the poor German was wriggling on the end of it. His sergeant knocked him out of the way, chambered a round in the rifle and fired allowing the bayonet to be withdrawn - the German solder was naturally killed. Dad said he threw his rifle away and got a tommy gun. He said he would rather have been killed than have to bayonet a man ever again.

Very much in line with Dave Grossman's excellent work On Killing.

Stabbing is harder, psychologically, than slashing (or bashing); slashing than shooting.

This explains one more of the Roman soldiers' advantage over their slashing warrior enemies: they were trained at the deadlier but more psychologically difficult stabbing.

It also explains the prevalence of clubbed muskets in bayonet fights: actually turning your own bayonet towards you in order to club the other guy, a slower and much less deadly approach.

The bottom line is the vast majority of us, despite roles and training, have a serious aversion to killing. The pop-up range overcomes this physical reticence through operant conditioning, but at the price of delaying the indecision until after the killing has taken place. Marlantes' excellent work backs this up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marlantes

 

[Timerover51]

Very much in line with Dave Grossman's excellent work On Killing.

Stabbing is harder, psychologically, than slashing (or bashing); slashing than shooting.

This explains one more of the Roman soldiers' advantage over their slashing warrior enemies: they were trained at the deadlier but more psychologically difficult stabbing.

It also explains the prevalence of clubbed muskets in bayonet fights: actually turning your own bayonet towards you in order to club the other guy, a slower and much less deadly approach.

The bottom line is the vast majority of us, despite roles and training, have a serious aversion to killing. The pop-up range overcomes this physical reticence through operant conditioning, but at the price of delaying the indecision until after the killing has taken place. Marlantes' excellent work backs this up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marlantes

S.L.A. Marshall made the same observation in his work, "Men Against Fire."

 

[Condottiere]

The legionary is also holding a very large shield and the unit is in a fairly tight formation, so not that much room to swing a cat.

Fortuitously, stabbing upwards gets a gutshot, or a groin one.

 

[Timerover51]

The following quote concerning an early form of star shell comes from REPORT TO THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF THE MUNITIONS OF WAR EXHIBITED AT THE PARIS UNIVERSAL EXHIBITION, 1867. Note the date of the exhibition. Bruce Bairnsfather's books on life in the World War One trenches have several cartoons complaining about the German star shells. The Laboratory mentioned is that of Great Britain's Woolwich Arsenal. The full report can be downloaded from archive.org.

A specimen of almost every article produced in the Laboratory Department is exhibited in this case. Among these, a parachute light-ball (10-inch) is especially interesting. It is a hollow sphere of thin iron (about a quarter of an inch thick), enclosing a thinner shell made ih two halves, and lightly fastened together. In the lower or permanent half of the inner shell is a peculiar illuminating compound, and in the upper half, a parachute of thin cotton is snugly stowed. The ball is fired from a mortar, with a light charge, so as to reach a point over the enemy's works, when a time fuse ignites a small bursting charge which throws away the outer shell, and the upper half of the inner, thus freeing the parachute. The parachute, to which the lower half of the shell is attached by lines and small chains (the latter next the shell so as not to be burned), expands and slowly descends, while the illuminating compound which has been ignited by the bursting charge, lights up the surrounding country. This compound burns for a space of about three minutes, and so illuminates the enemy's works that any operations undertaken under cover of night are detected. Our woodcut represents the parachute light-ball immediately after the explosion of the bursting charge, and the expansion of the parachute.

 

[JimMarn]

The following quote concerning an early form of star shell comes from REPORT TO THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF THE MUNITIONS OF WAR EXHIBITED AT THE PARIS UNIVERSAL EXHIBITION, 1867. Note the date of the exhibition. Bruce Bairnsfather's books on life in the World War One trenches have several cartoons complaining about the German star shells. The Laboratory mentioned is that of Great Britain's Woolwich Arsenal. The full report can be downloaded from archive.org.

In the book 'Wheezers and Dodgers', WW2 British scientists who were taken on as 3rd officers to make items to win the war, mentoned that they had made a star shell better than the ones the Germans made, but that the shell had been made in such a way as to hold the star part in the metal shell. Dimming it. Thay had had to rely on someone else to make the shell.

I highly reccomend this book. It also talks about the Hedgehog, the anti-U-boat spigot mortar and other items. Some, like an air powered anti-aircraft gun and the Panmunjum(sp ?), that didn't work very well.

 

[Timerover51]

In the book 'Wheezers and Dodgers', WW2 British scientists who were taken on as 3rd officers to make items to win the war, mentoned that they had made a star shell better than the ones the Germans made, but that the shell had been made in such a way as to hold the star part in the metal shell. Dimming it. Thay had had to rely on someone else to make the shell.

I highly reccomend this book. It also talks about the Hedgehog, the anti-U-boat spigot mortar and other items. Some, like an air powered anti-aircraft gun and the Panmunjum(sp ?), that didn't work very well.

I think that I have that book under a different title. Actually, the Holman Projecter, using high-pressure steam to fire hand grenades (and a lot of other things) did work well, and is credited with shooting down 7 German aircraft. It was used a lot by steam-powered fishing trawlers, and then the British coastal forces discovered that it was a great way to shoot flare shells without making any significant noise.

One of my minor joys in life was being called a "boffin" while in the Solomon Islands.

 

[JimMarn]

I think that I have that book under a different title. Actually, the Holman Projecter, using high-pressure steam to fire hand grenades (and a lot of other things) did work well, and is credited with shooting down 7 German aircraft. It was used a lot by steam-powered fishing trawlers, and then the British coastal forces discovered that it was a great way to shoot flare shells without making any significant noise.

One of my minor joys in life was being called a "boffin" while in the Solomon Islands.

Boffin eh ? Thats was mentioned in the book. The title I have is the US title.

There was a problem with water accumulatng in the pipes for the Holman Projector, once they got that taken care of it worked much better.

They also came up with a rocket propelled steel arrow to punch through the pressure hull of a U-boat.

Some of you may have seen the Panmunjum on various WW2 documentaries. It was a large metal wheel designed to roll by rockets tied to the rim up to beach defenses and blow up. The rockets never fired at the same time nor with the same thrust and it was finally considered too dangerouos to the landing troops and scrapped.

Apparently I am misremembering the spelling as I get finds for a town in South Korea rather than the device I've mentioned.

 

[Timerover51]

Boffin eh ? Thats was mentioned in the book. The title I have is the US title.

There was a problem with water accumulatng in the pipes for the Holman Projector, once they got that taken care of it worked much better.

They also came up with a rocket propelled steel arrow to punch through the pressure hull of a U-boat.

Some of you may have seen the Panmunjum on various WW2 documentaries. It was a large metal wheel designed to roll by rockets tied to the rim up to beach defenses and blow up. The rockets never fired at the same time nor with the same thrust and it was finally considered too dangerouos to the landing troops and scrapped.

Apparently I am misremembering the spelling as I get finds for a town in South Korea rather than the device I've mentioned.

The rocket has a solid 20 pound steel head with a stable underwater trajectory and the idea was to hit just short of the U-Boat and penetrate the pressure hull underwater. There was at least one case where the rocket was still burning when it penetrated to the engine room, and proceeded to bounce around in the engine room wreaking all sorts of havoc. Of course, if you did hit the U-Boat directly, it was still a goner, as it could then no longer submerge due to the hole in its pressure hull. Coastal Command discovered that the solid head rocket was more effective in sinking ships of 1200 tons and less than high-explosive warheads because of it inflicting underwater damage.

It was the Panjandrum that you are thinking of. Interestingly enough, one of the controllers of this device was Neville Shute Norway, who wrote the apocalyptic novel, On the Beach.

 

[JimMarn]

The rocket has a solid 20 pound steel head with a stable underwater trajectory and the idea was to hit just short of the U-Boat and penetrate the pressure hull underwater. There was at least one case where the rocket was still burning when it penetrated to the engine room, and proceeded to bounce around in the engine room wreaking all sorts of havoc. Of course, if you did hit the U-Boat directly, it was still a goner, as it could then no longer submerge due to the hole in its pressure hull. Coastal Command discovered that the solid head rocket was more effective in sinking ships of 1200 tons and less than high-explosive warheads because of it inflicting underwater damage.

It was the Panjandrum that you are thinking of. Interestingly enough, one of the controllers of this device was Neville Shute Norway, who wrote the apocalyptic novel, On the Beach.

Aha ! I did spell it correctly then. And he was in charge of the unit of boffins for part of the war.

I remember a mention in the book by crew surviors of the rocket bouncing around inside. They were in a state of shock.

I saw the movie based on that book. Scary stuff.

 

[kilemall]

The rocket has a solid 20 pound steel head with a stable underwater trajectory and the idea was to hit just short of the U-Boat and penetrate the pressure hull underwater. There was at least one case where the rocket was still burning when it penetrated to the engine room, and proceeded to bounce around in the engine room wreaking all sorts of havoc. Of course, if you did hit the U-Boat directly, it was still a goner, as it could then no longer submerge due to the hole in its pressure hull. Coastal Command discovered that the solid head rocket was more effective in sinking ships of 1200 tons and less than high-explosive warheads because of it inflicting underwater damage.

It was the Panjandrum that you are thinking of. Interestingly enough, one of the controllers of this device was Neville Shute Norway, who wrote the apocalyptic novel, On the Beach.

Sounds like the basis for Shkval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

 

[Timerover51]

Sounds like the basis for Shkval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

No, this was a simple air-launched rocket, using the same solid fuel rocket motor as was used for the British 60 pound rocket. Normal launching platform for anti-sub use was the Swordfish aircraft, while Coastal Command normally fired them from Beaufighters.

 

[JimMarn]

I presume this would work against small Traveller ships, but not at all against large Traveller war ships ?

 

[Timerover51]

I presume this would work against small Traveller ships, but not at all against large Traveller war ships ?

That depends entirely on how thick you assume the hulls are. The rockets could penetrate 1 inch of high-tensile strength steel, so if your ship hull, regardless of size, it that thickness or thinner, the rockets would be dangerous.

 

[Timerover51]

As tomorrow marks the 101st anniversary of the opening of the Gallipoli campaign, it seems appropriate to make some mention of it. The following quote comes from Corbett"s Naval Operations, volume 2. This may be downloaded by those interested at archive.org. Unfortunately, this copy was uploaded by Google and does not have any maps included. For those, the reader must look elsewhere.

It was at 9.51 on the morning of February 19 that the first shot heralded the opening of the unparalleled operations which were destined to attain such vast proportions, to consume so much heroism, resource and tragic effort, and to end with so glorious a failure. It was fired by the Cornwallis at Orkanie No. 4); the Triumph followed in ten minutes on Helles No. 1), with her 10" guns at 7,700 yards, and by 10.32 the Suffren, who had anchored between Yeni Keui and Rabbit Islands, was engaging Kum Kale

The ships mentioned are all Pre-Dreadnought battleships, with the Triumph being a lighter ship carrying a 10 inch main battery, and a 7.5 inch secondary battery. She was later torpedoed by the German submarine U-21, commanded by Otto Hersing, on May 25th, after doing much good service in fire support of the troops ashore. Her wreck still lies off the Gallipoli Peninsula.

 

[Timerover51]

Bloody Iwo

Yesterday marks the 71st Anniversary of the invasion of Iwo Jima by the United States Marine Corps 4th and 5th Divisions. Twenty-four Medals of Honor were awarded during the duration of the battle. The following comes from the US Marine Corps publication, Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima

Among the veterans preparing for Iwo Jima were two Medal of Honor recipients from the Guadalcanal campaign, Gunnery Sergeant John "Manila John" Basilone and Lieutenant Colonel Robert E. Galer. Headquarters Marine Corps preferred to keep such distinguished veterans in the states for morale purposes, but both men wrangled their way back overseas — Basilone leading a machine gun platoon.

On the left center of the action, leading his machine gun platoon in the 1st Battalion, 27th Marines’ attack against the southern portion of the airfield, the legendary “Manila John” Basilone fell mortally wounded by a Japanese mortar shell, a loss keenly felt by all Marines on the island.

The following is the link to US Marine Corps Historical Publications.

https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/historydivision/Pages/Staff/Publications.aspx#2001

The longer account of the battle was prepared in 1954: Iwo Jima: Amphibious Epic. LtCol Whitman S. Bartley, USMC. 1954. 253 pp.

The shorter account was prepared in 1994 as part of the 50th Anniversary Brochure series: Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima. Col Joseph H. Alexander. USMC (Ret). 1994. 52 pp.

 

[JimMarn]

I read about Gunnery Sergeant John "Manila John" Basilone in a book on Gudalcanal.