Special Supplement 4: Sensors

[BillDowns]

S-4, I'm kinda up to my a.. in alligators right now. It's going to be a couple of weeks for me, too.

There still seem to be some issues with the new forum - your posts come up as WJP instead of S-4 and there is duplication, to..... strange. I'll post somethign for hunter.

Back on topic, I do have a couple of suggestions. To some degree, I agree with the assertion that detection is not going to be as difficult in space as it is on planet, for a number of reasons. I think anything under 150 kkm should be automatic unless there are stealthing or ambient noise influences. Also, I think you need to split out the "lock-on" function; that is a rather specialized function of modern radars, and I don't see that happening. LBB2 says one needs to add 1 dton for "fire control" and I have always felt that really meant "fire directors", since the "Fire control" functions are handled by "Predict" and related software. That cost could be included with the cost of the turret - not the hardpoint, but the turret. Finally, and yes I guess this is a bit away from "lite", but I would replace the Model number DM by Software DM; this gives a bit more flexibility, I think.

All IMO,

 

[hunter]

S-4, I'm kinda up to my a.. in alligators right now. It's going to be a couple of weeks for me, too.

There still seem to be some issues with the new forum - your posts come up as WJP instead of S-4 and there is duplication, to..... strange. I'll post somethign for hunter.

Ok I see the duplications. Checking into it now. Seems to be a problem on this particular forum.

The reason the posts are coming up as WJP is because the new systems doesn't currently allow 'display names' only login names.

 

[pendragonman]

Ok I see the duplications. Checking into it now. Seems to be a problem on this particular forum.

The reason the posts are coming up as WJP is because the new systems doesn't currently allow 'display names' only login names.

Well, that explains why I don't show up as Chucky the Hammer. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[aramis]

Duplicates deleted from this thread.

 

[Supplement Four]

Just a quick note about the simplicity of these rules (I think all the verbage on sensors for role playing purposes might have scared some from wading through...)

1. All you're doing when rolling a sensor check is making a roll on your vessel's computer model number.

Roll less than or equal to the number? You've made a successful use of the ship's sensors. Roll higher than the computer number? Then, you fail your scan.

2. How many dice you roll depends on your range.

You roll once for each range, rolling from longest range to closest (Extreme--Long--Short--Close). When you suceed on a roll, you stop rolling. All shorter range categories are considered a success too.

3. How do you determine your ship's sensor range?

That's based on your sensor package. MOST ships have the BSP. But, some vessels (especially military vessels and some scout ships) have upgraded sensors.

Players who wish to upgrade their vessels can use these rules to upgrade their ship's sensors.



So, when rolling for sensor checks, roll Computer Model number or less. Sensor type will give you range. Range will tell you how many dice to roll. These rules include modifiers. The maximum modifier is -4.

It's that easy.

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

I've read numerous, well-documented sources on space sensors that spacecraft will be blindingly conspicuous relative to space, background noise, radiation, etc., over system-wide distances...

I followed standard CT rules on this.

A civilian ship can detect out to 150,000 km and track out to 900,000 km.

A military vessel can detect out to 600,000 km and track out to 900,000 km.

IMTU, I'll likely use the CT rules as above, but increase the detection ranges out to a scale of tens of AUs. Simple line-of-sight rules will govern sensor masking due to planets and other objects.

I do, however, like your Sensors Supplement, S4. It would certainly add a lot to the tactical aspects of role-played space combat, or even combat as wargame. It reminds me a little of Harpoon, the Larry Bond game of modern naval combat, which I really enjoyed.

 

[Supplement Four]

IMTU, I'll likely use the CT rules as above, but increase the detection ranges out to a scale of tens of AUs.

Notice that Short Range in these rules is what CT states, and it's nearly a 100% chance that detection will be accomplished at that range.

I didn't want to change what CT had already laid out. I wanted to add to it (the way SS3 Missiles adds to missiles in the normal Bk 2 space combat rules).

Long Range and Extreme Range are very hard throws to make. I did this to have a chance of detection at longer than normal range listed in CT.

Also, I wanted these rules to mesh with High Guard and Book 2 space combat. HG is a different animal. The abstract range used is implied to be extremely long ranges (as Mayday shows us about the ranges in HG). So, only military sensors can be used on HG--they're the only types of sensors with the range to be used with that space combat.

The result is: Close and Short range are typically automatic. That way Book 2 CT range is justified and not changed.

Long Range and Extreme Range is directed more at High Guard, where the range we're talking about is enormous--and it's not as automatic as Close and Short.

IMTU, I'll likely use the CT rules as above, but increase the detection ranges out to a scale of tens of AUs.

I mention this in the rules too--just not for space combat. Sensors can be used to look into other galaxies, just like modern day sensors, but it takes time. The ranges I provide in these rules are meant for space combat.

And, using CT rules as the base, I didn't want to make detection possible too much farther than what has already been establised with CT rules.

Even if you've got a Model 5 computer, with a sensor operator with Sensor Ops-4 skill, and a target with a blaring transponder, it's still a 3D -4 for 5- throw to make detection. That ain't that easy a throw.

Bottom Line: I meant these rules to compliment what has been established in CT. I wasn't trying to re-write them.

 

[BillDowns]

S-4, did you see my earlier post (at the top of the page) about "fire control"?

Just curious.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sorry, Bill,

I'll answer some of the points you brought up.

I think anything under 150 kkm should be automatic unless there are stealthing or ambient noise influences.

And, I agree. Check out the rules.

Even with a Model 1 computer, and a sensor operator with Sensor Ops-0, and a Basic Sensor Package, the roll is typically automatic for 150K km.

The target ship would have a transponder signal (-4 DM), and the roll would be 1D -4 for 1-.

The only failure is on a roll of "6". So, there's a 1-in-6 chance that a target won't be picked up at 150K km. And, the sensor operator can try every combat round, if he wants...so we're really talking about a 100% chance. It just may take 30 minutes for a reading instead of 15 minutes.

Also, I think you need to split out the "lock-on" function; that is a rather specialized function of modern radars, and I don't see that happening.

Again, I addressed this in the rules.

Many people want simple rules. I tried to make these very simple (roll computer model or less).

In the optional rule that allows sensor locks equal to the computer model number, the lock roll and detect roll are separate rolls.

If you want to make them two different rules, just use that optional rule.

For those who want quick-n-easy, these rules are flexible in that a single roll (or even no roll at all) can be used.

GM's and player's choice.

LBB2 says one needs to add 1 dton for "fire control" and I have always felt that really meant "fire directors", since the "Fire control" functions are handled by "Predict" and related software.

I looked at that. But, I interpreted that as an interface with the ship's sensors.

I also noticed that sensors are included in the cost and mass of the bridge assembly. That's why the BSP doesn't cost anything. It comes as standard equipment on any starship.

It's the other sensors that start to require mass and cost.

Players can use the rules to upgrade thier vessels.

That cost could be included with the cost of the turret - not the hardpoint, but the turret. Finally, and yes I guess this is a bit away from "lite", but I would replace the Model number DM by Software DM; this gives a bit more flexibility, I think.

What software DM?

Are you talking about the Detect Program?

The Detect Program is meant to replace a ship's sensor operator. It's an AI sensor operator--for vessels that don't have a character with sensor operator skill...or for those who wish to have improved skill.

The ship's sensors operate when any of these programs are in use: Navigation, Generate, Target, or Detect.

 

[Bob Weaver]

WJP,

Do you have all these rules components available in an easy-to download format? I'd like to give them a try but would rather not have to print the web pages. Thanks for your work on this, I've wanted a good sensor rule set for a long while.
Cheers,

Bob Weaver

 

[Supplement Four]

WJP,

Do you have all these rules components available in an easy-to download format? I'd like to give them a try but would rather not have to print the web pages.

Sorry, but all I have is what you see here. For my own copy, I just copied the text from the posts and pasted them into a document.

Thanks for your work on this, I've wanted a good sensor rule set for a long while.

Glad you dig 'em. If you have comments after using them, please post. I'm always interested in feedback.

Ciao,

S4

 

[Warlock]

Just revisited your sensor rules. Have you updated them for Mongoose Traveller purposes?

 

[tancred]

S4, I know this is classic thread necromancy, but I only just stumbled across this thread recently.

Two things to ask you:

Have you thought about incorporating some more shades of sensor packages, i.e., breaking them down more finely the way Mongoose Traveller does?

And two, I have what you've posted so far copied into a Word document, and can easily create a PDF from it. Would you like a copy?

 

[Supplement Four]

Have you thought about incorporating some more shades of sensor packages, i.e., breaking them down more finely the way Mongoose Traveller does?

Mongoose Traveller wasn't out when I wrote these rules. I took everything I could find in Traveller at the time from the various editions and synthesized it down to what you see here, adding my own thoughts as well.

I was running MT at the time I wrote these rules, I think.

Since, I run CT, and I adhere to the CT thoughts on senors--that rules for them really aren't that important except on the occasions where something gets in the way of transmission. Like a ship being masked by a planet, mag-sphere, sunspots and the like. Then, I just come up with a Navigation throw for my CT players and not worry about it. Most of the time, I assume that all ships are visible and known to anyone close enough by to shoot at them.

A trip through populated systems is like walking down a sidewalk where there are many other people around. You know that they are there, but you probably only focus on a few of them--and when you do, it's no big deal. You can easily see everything that there is to see about that person.

Trips through non populated, or low tech-non space flight systems are like walking down an empty sidewalk during the day. If there is another, single person around, you'll see them unless they are deliberately hiding behind a trash can.

Also, many jumps to a system are very short, having arrived in the system at the 100 diam point. This distance usually doesn't take that long unless the world is masked by a larger body--like an inner zone world and a ship arriving at the 100 diam limit of the system's star.

CT Refs can get creative with ships hiding behind moons or being camoflaged by a Gas Giant's mag-sphere. But, a good CT player character Captain will keep an eye on any place near his flight path that could shadow an enemy.

CT Refs can also have fun making long, non-linear flight paths that involve 100 diam limits from bi-nary systems, where the main world is a moon.

Still, it should be very, very hard to surprise someone in space, with the TL 13+ of most Imperial ships.

Nowadays, I just give the Navigator a simple roll, if I think they should have a roll at all (usually, I'll just tell the PCs what they see on the sensors), and keep on Travellin'.

I don't play with all these complicated rules.

Although, breaking down the systems and the different types of sensors can be quite fun too.

And two, I have what you've posted so far copied into a Word document, and can easily create a PDF from it. Would you like a copy?

Yeah, that'd be great for my archive. Send me a PM, and I'll give you my e-mail address.

 

[DonM]

I have one big problem with this...

Special Supplement 4 is "Lost Rules of Traveller" (still a Moot benefit, I believe)

So, this would be Special Supplement 5, yes?

 

[whulorigan]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Special Supplement 4 - Lost Rules of Traveller[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica] is a PDF on the Updated Classic Traveller CDROM.
[/FONT]

 

[DonM]

Marc said he would add it, thanks!

 

[Supplement Four]

I have one big problem with this...

Special Supplement 4 is "Lost Rules of Traveller" (still a Moot benefit, I believe)

So, this would be Special Supplement 5, yes?

I wrote this originally in 2007. Doesn't that pre-date the "Lost Rules of Traveller"?

And...anyway...I have no problem with it being Traveller Special Supplement 5 or Traveller Special Supplement 18. Makes no difference to me.

 

[aramis]

I wrote this originally in 2007. Doesn't that pre-date the "Lost Rules of Traveller"?

And...anyway...I have no problem with it being Traveller Special Supplement 5 or Traveller Special Supplement 18. Makes no difference to me.

maybe, but SS4 is canonically Lost Rules. Maybe it should be FSS2, with 68A being FSS1?

 

[SpaceBadger]

Special Supplement 4 is "Lost Rules of Traveller" (still a Moot benefit, I believe)

Sounds interesting; where would this be found? I don't see any sort of file archive on the Moot Features menu.


EDIT: Found it: Sticky Thread in Moot Spire: Lost Rules of Traveller.



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