I think you have to differentiate between STARships and SPACEships. In any given system there would be a large, although finite number of ore haulers, cutters, shuttles, planetary transports, cargo craft, mining craft, communication vessels, survey vessels, patrol craft, medical shuttles, customs ships, etc. Then you have starships which move from system to system. A high population, high tech world would have hundreds if not thousands of Spaceships in the system.
Starship Scale in Campaigns
- Thread starter BardicHeart
- Start date
Hi
Uh-oh,
When I read your post, the first thing to pop into my head was the theme to the old "Love Boat" TV series. I can see it now, an adventure module where the players are the captain and major crew of a large space fairing cruise ship. Every couple of weeks, new guests/patrons arrive onboard. The captain and crew will have to deal with many factors ranging from romantic hijinx, intrigue, killer space storms, and/or attacks from space banditos, etc, but all adventures will have to be able to be wrapped up during a single nights gaming session/episode.
Ugh, I'm getting frightened now.
Regards
PF
Uh-oh,
When I read your post, the first thing to pop into my head was the theme to the old "Love Boat" TV series. I can see it now, an adventure module where the players are the captain and major crew of a large space fairing cruise ship. Every couple of weeks, new guests/patrons arrive onboard. The captain and crew will have to deal with many factors ranging from romantic hijinx, intrigue, killer space storms, and/or attacks from space banditos, etc, but all adventures will have to be able to be wrapped up during a single nights gaming session/episode.
Ugh, I'm getting frightened now.
Regards
PF
shadowcat20
SOC-12
Sad thing is, that is a hell of a good idea. Throw it between 2 hostile parties and add in spys, refugees, and assassinations.
May have to borrow that one....
May have to borrow that one....
BardicHeart
SOC-12
ROFLMAO... good one! Lemme know how it goes. I'm almost done reading up on the Striker stuff, will post some thoughts after that. I think I'm re-inventing Starsky & Hutch in space myself... more on that later.
One example about the Navy as the background threat is found in many mercenary tickets (strike and dream tikets on B4, Thunder on Zhyra AZ on JTAS 11, etc), where Imperial intervention is a major concern.
While in those cases we're talking more about Imperial Troops than Navy, Navy whould no dubt be there to help troops, as it is the main political weapon Imperium has (a single CruDron with its supporting troops whould suffice in any of those cases).
While in those cases we're talking more about Imperial Troops than Navy, Navy whould no dubt be there to help troops, as it is the main political weapon Imperium has (a single CruDron with its supporting troops whould suffice in any of those cases).
That is relative to their budget priorities. If they decided to not be a welfare state, they could easily afford it. It all depends what your budget priorities are. So, to say they can't 'afford it' is not at all true.
The correct statement is, 'they have moved the military budget further down their priority list than other items and because of that, haven't allocated money for one or more CVN battle groups...'
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How many CVN battlegroups could you buy with the Trident replacement budget... 
So worlds in the future won't be making different budget priorities too?
Or is it just going to be some formula all the time? World A with Population B will have always have Money C and Ships D. That sounds like a lot of fun.
Meaning the correction to the statement I was replying to would be: "This doesn't jibe with what mere countries can now on Earth depending on their budget priorities."
Irrelevant question. Being able to afford and CHOOSING not to purchase are two ENTIRELY different animals.
Example: I can AFFORD a new car but CHOOSE to go on multiple, expensive vacations every year and THUS, choose not to purchase a new car.
So, the answer in both cases is: If so decided, could the could the country afford the ships & the person the car. The answer is;yes to both.
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More like an irrelevant answer.
The result is the same though and the result is all that counts.
So when BardicHeart needs to make the number of big ships smaller in his campaign, he can say some worlds CHOOSE not to build all the ships people like you would believe they can.
Of course, we shouldn't also forget that the numbers you're suggesting come from rules which Marc Miller says you shouldn't use for the very purpose you're using them for. Care to explain that? Apart from the lame excuse about there being no rules to use in their place?
That isn't an answer at all. It's an opinion based on an incorrect application of the rules.
The real answer is that worlds can decide to build fewer ships than you want to believe they can. And part of that answer is that your "opinion" depends on you deliberately using the rules incorrectly and ignoring the game's owners statements on the subject.
Not at all. One is an econ question, the other a political one.
The ABILITY of you to have coffee at breakfast is quite different than the choice of having coffee or, not.
Since we are talking about planets with unknown political situations and budget choices, we are asking an econ question. If you can't parse the difference, I truly feel sorry for you.
We're not talking about that at all.
We're talking about ways for BlackHeart to limit the numbers of large ships in his campaigns. One way is to impose political limitations on budget choices. One way not to do that is to blindly impose budgets with no political considerations at all. Budgets which are produced by using the rules incorrectly too.
Sorry for me? You're talking on about "econ" questions but your assumed numbers rest on applying a rule in a manner Marc Miller says you shouldn't.
Now that's what's really sorry. :rofl:
Sure they will. Priorities depend on the needs percived, so they depend on the situation and view.
United Kingdom had the greatest fleet on the world, when it viewd it as necessary (sea empire, no allied fleets, piracy on the world, fleet rich contries percived as potential enemies, etc). Sure it was a great budget constainment to mantain it, but it thought it needed it, so it had.
When UK stepped down as superpower (no offense), it could rely on US (and french, to an extent) fleets as a help, so it reduced its fleet. Threats were no so important (piracy more or less under control, reduced sea empire, allied fleets, no great fleets percived as enemies, etc).
So, whith more or less the same budget, a planet on Corridor (near vargr raiders) whould surely have a stronger planetary fleet than one on Massilia or Core (where there are no borders to deffend and only the boldest pirates dare to prey).
Also, a balkanized world is likely to have more spaceships and starships than a similar world with a unified government, even if those fleets are less likely to cooperate (but don't count on that against an alien threat).
Some countries don't have standing armed forces now on earth (Panamà, Andorra, St Marino...). In the case of St Marino, probably cannot afford it (and they don't think they need it anyway). In the case of Andorra, probably they think what they could have whould be useless against their neighbours (asside that not perceiving them as threats). Panama disolved it for political reasons (and probably they're quite sure US won't let them to be threatened, given the importance of the cannal).
As you see, military spending (and fleet is part of it, thought I don't think I must reason here why Andorra or St Marino doesn't have navy
) is not only determied by budget, but also for many political reasons and percived threats.
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So he can, provided it fits with his background. For worlds that have been at peace for a long time, it's implausible that they should be using 8 or 10% of their GPP on the military. For worlds that lie on the border with a expansionistic warrior culture, it is implausible that they would only spend 2 or 3%. The expansionistic warrior culture could likewise be expected to spend more than a few percent on its military.
The Imperium, for instance, is bordered by two hostile empires with gross products on the same order of magnitude as itself, a homicidal culture dedicated to the destruction of all non-vegetarians, and two robber cultures. Yet according to Striker's section about the Imperium (apparently canon after all), its worlds only spend an average of 3% of GPP on the military. And even then, 30% of that relatively low figure (the Imperium's share, also according to Striker) is enough to pay for five dozen capital ships (cruiesrs and above) and a vast number of smaller auxiliaries.
You seem to have failed to grasp my meaning, which is that in the absence of canonical rules, we must rely on comparison with the Real World, and that the figures from Striker happens to fit quite well with Real World figures. If they didn't, I would happily ignore them.
And, BTW, I'm not using the rules so much as I'm using the background information, which seems to be canon after all.
Hans
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Hi
I guess it could maybe be something like the passenger ship in the movie "The 5th Element", with its big open ball room and lounges, small craft hangar and luxery suites, etc.
Regards
PF
Sad thing is, that is a hell of a good idea. Throw it between 2 hostile parties and add in spys, refugees, and assassinations.
May have to borrow that one....
I guess it could maybe be something like the passenger ship in the movie "The 5th Element", with its big open ball room and lounges, small craft hangar and luxery suites, etc.
Regards
PF
shadowcat20
SOC-12
McPerth makes a good point.
Just because a world can afford big ships do they need them?
Their Navel budget would be in proportion to the risk factor.
Are they at war?
Have they been at war lately?
Have they been at war in teh last 500 years?
Is their a Imp base in system?
Is their a Imp Base nearby?
Are they a rich world or a poor world?
Can they make their own or import them?
Can they fix them or do they need high tech help?
Lots of factors can play into the size of a worlds fleet.
On this world we have many different governments. We have fought 2 world wars and many smaller ones in the last 100 years. There are still wars going on today involving major countries. There is still a perceived threat of major actions in other parts of the world. So our perception of reasonable defense expenditure MAY differ from some backwater planet with one government and no threats.
Just because a world can afford big ships do they need them?
Their Navel budget would be in proportion to the risk factor.
Are they at war?
Have they been at war lately?
Have they been at war in teh last 500 years?
Is their a Imp base in system?
Is their a Imp Base nearby?
Are they a rich world or a poor world?
Can they make their own or import them?
Can they fix them or do they need high tech help?
Lots of factors can play into the size of a worlds fleet.
On this world we have many different governments. We have fought 2 world wars and many smaller ones in the last 100 years. There are still wars going on today involving major countries. There is still a perceived threat of major actions in other parts of the world. So our perception of reasonable defense expenditure MAY differ from some backwater planet with one government and no threats.
FASA's King Richard.
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I did run a campaign 30 years ago based on a crashed giant super dreadnaught, though I tried to convince a player to fight a fighter battle using atari combat jet fighter and I remember him saying "I'm not risking my character's life on that!":rofl:
I redacted this in the entry for "Cruiser" in Library Data, after discussions on the TML.
"Finally, the term battle cruiser has been applied to ships of relatively low displacement (generally less than 5000 tons). The use of the term appears to be more an effort to bolster morale aboard these vessels - which are often required to act independently - rather than to label accurately. The regular Navy refers to such ships as colonial cruisers (CC). One example of this type is the Kinunir-class battle cruiser."
Try my site under Traveller Library Data ==> C ==> Cruiser.
Note that the Battle of Two Suns makes sense if we say that the Kinunirs, at the time, were one of the very few classes sporting the Imperium's experimental black globes. Plus that the enemy were more interested in concentrating their firepower on the BIG ships in the fleet, rather than the unhittable small fry. Otherwise the thing would have been fried.
As it was, you can assume that the Zhos managed to zap most of the bigger Impy ships, since they did finally get around to picking off the Allamu.
BardicHeart
SOC-12
I thought the exact same thing. LOL Was going to ask what others thought of large luxury passengers like that in the 3I. Seems plausible to me. Anyone use something like this already and develop some routes? I was looking at the cover to the Astrogator's Guide to the Diaspora Sector (a MT book) and the blurb about visiting unusual worlds got me thinking. I could see a Megacorp operating luxury cruise lines that visit "tourist" worlds.
Kick the idea around, how big in dTs might such a ship be? Anyone ever experiment with deck plans for such a ship? (Closest thing I have is a luxury liner from Fading Suns that I figure would be around 20k dT)
FASA did a module, had big deckplans as well:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produ...327&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=4&free=2
