Starship weapons in atmosphere

[gchuck]

I'm not big on ship combat, but, I've got a situation in my campaign that developed into a grounded ship being attacked from low orbit/in atmosphere.

I've decided to treat sand casters as a point-defense weapon, i.e. USN CIWS, with a severe range Nerf. Effective range 2 - 7km. Essentially a big shotgun, for use against missiles.
Totally useless against energy weapons.

Energy weapons also suffer from range attenuation, essentially measured in tens of kilometers, due to atmospheric attenuation. Orbit to ground, totally useless.

Missiles will be treated as ballistic weapons. Since they are space weapons, they are very limited in maneuvering ability inatmo. Treat as KEW's from orbit.

Comments? Concerns? Catcalls?

 

[McPerth]

Which game system do you use?

 

[gchuck]

CT, and the other LBB's

 

[McPerth]

I'm not sure of the equivalences for CT, being on Stiker (AFAIK), that I don't own, but what I'm sure is that enegry weapons may be used against atmospheric targets from orbit, as it's quite usual to use them as ortillery.

This includes both lasers and high energy weapons (plasma and fusion guns).

As for missiles, they are treated as HE rounds, but very large caliber ones.

PAs are unusable form vacuum to atmosphere and vice versa. Mesons are an all kill weapon against ground targets.

I'm not sure, but I have serious doubts about sancasters being usable on their role in atmosphere.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'm not sure, but I have serious doubts about sancasters being usable on their role in atmosphere.

Quite, Striker has rules:

6. Sandcasters: Sandcasters may be used as a sort of giant shotgun. They attack all targets within their danger space ... Effective range in a standard atmosphere is 50 cm [500 m in scale] with a penetration of 20 and an autofire DM of +8 ...

Not really anti-missile capable, but devastating against lightly armoured infantry.

 

[gchuck]

Mostly, I got the answers I wanted.

Sand casters, being launched as 'canister' shot would degrade almost instantly inatmo. 500m range seems logical in a gravity well.

Lasers, I'm trying to suspend disbelief. But, I can go with the 'ortillary' example with further thought.

Missiles, (especially turret launched), have to use vectored thrust, or thrusters for course correction.......
Come to think about it a little longer, maybe they would be able to maneuver inatmo.

I'm good with this!

Thanx guys!

 

[Grav_Moped]

There ought to be some radar chaff in the sandcaster mix. In a suitably dense atmosphere, it should persist a while and scatter downwind. This may deceive incoming missiles and fire control to some extent (halve the DM). The ablative "sand", if heavy enough to dissipate incoming laser fire, would rain out quickly so wouldn't be too effective against lasers. But expect some degree of laser attenuation due to atmospheric distortion.

Ship-to-ship missiles may or may not have re-entry shielding or even be streamlined (however you run this in your universe). At sufficient tech levels, they will have grav/m-drive propulsion so maneuver and terminal guidance won't be an issue.

Basically, it depends on how much of a fight you want the grounded ship to be able to put up.

If they have advance notice and the right equipment on hand, dispersing fire control radars to the surrounding area (with tight-beam radio/maser comm links) as well as radar-frequency decoys would make the grounded ship a more difficult target -- otherwise, if it's using active radar it's pretty much a sitting duck.

 

[McPerth]

Well, Sandcastes might not be used against missiles, but lasers (if the ship crew is in battle stations) may, and the starport may have its own defenses (missiles/lasers turrets, deep MG sites if the planet is populated/HiTL enough, nuclear dampers covering the spaceport, defense satellites...

 

[infojunky]

Lasers, I'm trying to suspend disbelief. But, I can go with the 'ortillary' example with further thought.

What's so hard about a Quarter Gigawatt tune-able Laser with a better than light second short range hitting and damaging a point target on the ground?

 

[kilemall]

The Striker rules have some serious laser attenuation, so you need to be in a close orbit.

 

[Supplement Four]

SAND.

That's interesting about the sandcasters. There's so much speculation on how they are used.

In CT, though, they seem to be a device that launches a lot of "sand" into a cloud around the ship. The "sand" deflects the light of the laser and helps to degrade the effect of the beam. In CT space combat, the sand clouds, once launched, remain on the vector for which they were launched.

So a ship can launch sand and travel within the cloud, or it can launch sand to cover an incoming fire direction. If the ship changes speed or direction, then it loses or re-positions the cloud.

I don't see how Sand would work in an atmosphere. It seems like it would fall to the ground once fired (when you need it to hover on the incoming fire arc).



CONTROVERSIAL.

But, as I said, there has been lots of discussion about how sands works in the past. And, I'm sure some will disagree with me, stating a different way it is supposed to work in CT.



GETTING CREATIVE WITH SAND.

You say that you see it as a point defense weapon. I can see that argument. That the ship's computers track the incoming fire (moving at the speed of light!) and fires the sandcasters just before the lasers hit. Fire. Deflection of incoming fire as the sand falls to the ground.

What if you got a little creative with it and used the sand to cover the hull of the ship--using it as an ablative armor? If you can figure a way to keep the sand from sliding off the hull.

Maybe the sand is magnetic? Have the ship's engineer use the jump grid on the hull--magnetize it--to hold the sand in place?

Sounds like it might be fun! And, it will give your Engineer something very cool to do!

 

[kilemall]

S4, 2300 shields basically work with a sand-like material held in a magnetic bottle field.

As I recall, using shields made for a VERY radar reflective signature.

 

[whulorigan]

What if you got a little creative with it and used the sand to cover the hull of the ship--using it as an ablative armor? If you can figure a way to keep the sand from sliding off the hull.

Maybe the sand is magnetic? Have the ship's engineer use the jump grid on the hull--magnetize it--to hold the sand in place?

That's how the Sandscreen worked in Traveller: 2300AD.

 

[infojunky]

That's how the Sandscreen worked in Traveller: 2300AD.

And in TNE as well.

 

[Brandon C]

That's how the Sandscreen worked in Traveller: 2300AD.

As Mike has pointed out before, it's really how sandcasters should work in Traveller.

 

[Carlobrand]

Well, Sandcastes might not be used against missiles, ...

In atmosphere? Striker point defense rules allow the point defense weapon systems to engage and try to destroy incoming tac-missiles, and it treats ship missiles in atmosphere as tac missiles - or as indirect fire artillery, if desired. They generally do this with rapid-fire weapons since the auto-fire bonus is involved in calculating whether and how many incoming attacks are destroyed. Basic roll in point defense against direct fire is the standard 2d6 roll plus the auto-fire bonus, with an 8+ hitting and every 2 points over 8 indicating another round hit. I don't see any reason a sandcaster couldn't be used in the same capacity given that it has a +8 bonus from that shotgun pattern. The only question really is whether a ship's standard gunnery program can substitute as a point-defense fire control at ground combat ranges. I'd guess any ship's computer could handle it, but I might require the player to run a specific point defense program, and then I'd call it at best equivalent to a TL 9 PDFC.