Striker vehicles vs High Guard vehicle design

[Murph]

A friend who played in our games for years, took a look at the Striker system, and while he was very much a Min/Max type player, he decided that his mercenary group would never use any Striker designs, instead he used High Guard to design what he called "better" vehicles such as a 10 ton "fighter" or "tank" since basic Traveller armor was IIRC 40 and you could have that on a 10 ton ship vs a 200 ton tank under the Striker rules. Same with an "APC" which was a 20 ton ships boat equivalent to transport two squads (24) of troops hither an yon. He and another player used High Guard, Trillion Credit Squadron, and Striker rules, and decided that under the design rules, it made more sense to use High Guard over Striker.

This also made such things as the 1,999 ton frigate, the 19,999 ton cruiser, and the 74,999 ton Battleship since the combat tables allowed such odd ships to get the best plusses. We still joke about the 1,999 ton merchant ships, frigates, and system defense boats. So as a result in the Universe all ships ended up being built around these tonnages, and Min/Max weapon systems.

What do you do, or think about their suppositions? Also how do you handle Min/Maxxers in your games? They stayed strictly within the letter of the rules, if not the spirit.

 

[Tobias]

1.) It's an interesting approach, especially if taking the view from Book 4 that at higher TLs, spacecraft and grav combat vehicles merge. But IMHO it only really works for grav-powered craft. If that's all you're using, designing grav vehicles as HG small craft can work fine if you make a few assumptions (e.g. small craft couches/staterooms allowing double occupancy, drives of less than 1 ton possible) and add HG tonnage values for various equipment.

2.) Min/maxing of the above kind happens because in HG, staying below a certain size offers only advantages, and quite potent ones too.

If each step offered both advantages and disadvantages (like in my current redesign attempt, where each size category means being easier to hit, but also an efficiency increase for armor), the incentive for min/maxing is reduced or eliminated.

 

[Rupert]

Remember that that's a 10-ton 'displacement' fighter, and a 200 tonne mass tank. The sample grav APC in Striker masses 600 tonnes, but it's volume comes out at 12 Displacement Tons.

Also, HG ships' weapons are not mentioned as having point-defence fire control, and nor are their missile able to be high performance. Most of the time this isn't a major weakness, but it can matter.

But yes, HG designs tended to be better than Striker ones, especially at high TLs. I don't recall how they came out in terms of relative cost.

 

[whartung]

he decided that his mercenary group would never use any Striker designs, instead he used High Guard to design what he called "better" vehicles such as a 10 ton "fighter" or "tank" since basic Traveller armor was IIRC 40 and you could have that on a 10 ton ship vs a 200 ton tank under the Striker rules.

Doesn't make much sense.

HG armor goes to 15. There are no rules I know of that tells you how a book 4 "Y Gun" penetrates or damages any level of HG armor.

I mean, if you want to just make stuff up, that's fine, but don't think there are any actual rule systems involved.

 

[Murph]

He was using high guard lasers, not x y or z guns, plus ship missiles.

 

[Badenov]

Doesn't make much sense.

HG armor goes to 15. There are no rules I know of that tells you how a book 4 "Y Gun" penetrates or damages any level of HG armor.

I mean, if you want to just make stuff up, that's fine, but don't think there are any actual rule systems involved.

He was using high guard lasers, not x y or z guns, plus ship missiles.

That said, HG lasers can't pen 15 HG armor. Not sure where that leaves you?

 

[kilemall]

Doesn't make much sense.

HG armor goes to 15. There are no rules I know of that tells you how a book 4 "Y Gun" penetrates or damages any level of HG armor.

I mean, if you want to just make stuff up, that's fine, but don't think there are any actual rule systems involved.

Not true. Striker book 2 has conversion formula, there is errata that has to be applied, but it ends up that the example APC has better armor then the average fighter and some heavy armor up front.

Striker Book 3 has the Y gun stats. It’s fusion splashy too so best to not have squishy inf nearby.

The Y gun can penetrate most HG armor up close. It’s that close part that would prove to be problematic.

 

[mike wightman]

That's not what he commented on, you even quoted it.

HG does not have stats for the vehicle mounted weapons, nor is there a damage mechanism in HG for the resolution of firing a fusion Z gun at a vehicle, smallcraft or ship.

If you use Striker to resolve this then you are using Striker, not High Guard.

 

[Condottiere]

In the transportation sense, anti gravity eliminates the vast majority of possible obstacles to limit manoeuvre.

Except, the most lethal one.

The cheap version, is collecting air/rafts, and taxiing infantry around.

The more bold one, is having the air/rafts act as weapon platforms.

And then, you have to calculate the monetary costs as expressed in Traveller, against the effect, potential or actual.

Probably, the best bang for buck would be bicycles, within a localized area.

That could be solar powered anti gravity scooters, further up the technological tree.

 

[kilemall]

That's not what he commented on, you even quoted it.

HG does not have stats for the vehicle mounted weapons, nor is there a damage mechanism in HG for the resolution of firing a fusion Z gun at a vehicle, smallcraft or ship.

If you use Striker to resolve this then you are using Striker, not High Guard.

What he said was nothing tells you what penetrates HG armor. Striker does, HG doesn’t, it’s up to refs whether they want to retro that in or not.

Given the Striker resolution, you would have to have a suicide range to model that close an approach, and at 1.5 G it’s unlikely our heroic APC is going to close that much.

 

[Murph]

That said, HG lasers can't pen 15 HG armor. Not sure where that leaves you?

He was using it vs Striker designed vehicles, since according to HIS reading of the rules, the 6G, 10 ton fighter with a laser would eat grav tanks, and grav APCs for breakfast at a good cost/benefit ratio.

 

[Badenov]

He was using it vs Striker designed vehicles, since according to HIS reading of the rules, the 6G, 10 ton fighter with a laser would eat grav tanks, and grav APCs for breakfast at a good cost/benefit ratio.

OK, that much is consistent between versions, with a slight asterisk on the cost/benefit.