• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

CT Only: Supplement 7 Express Boat Tender

... Does a -1 to fire at all times affect combat? ...

And once again I find myself guilty of imprecision. As I said, "neither of the CT rules systems, not Book 2 nor High Guard, sets any limit on a ship using all its available weapons while docking or undocking a subsidiary craft." Ergo the mobile turret serves no purpose within the scope of the combat rules. However, you are correct that Supplement 7, in introducing the turret, also introduces a rule regarding it: the turret is less accurate than its fixed counterpart.

... I may be taking things out of context, but in the real world a hardpoint is a strengthening of certain points to the internal or external structure of an aircraft's frame and points on the wings. There purpose is to allow the mounting of different items to the aircraft. ...

And this is how I interpret a hardpoint as well. In a surface warship, the hardpoint is a reinforced point that can accept an armored turret for a weapon that projects shells by means of a powerful explosive force; it needs to be strong. In an aircraft, it's mainly the issue of being able to handle the aerodynamic forces involved as the aircraft flies with the weapon connected to that hardpoint.

For a ship, the structure of the ship itself dictates the number and strength of the hardpoints - too many or too powerful guns can cause problems for the ship mounting them. Lusitania could be armed, but she was never going to be able to fire the weapons of a dreadnought. (I don't recall whether Titanic was built to be armed.) For an aircraft, performance needs dictate the number of hardpoints. For a scout/courier - well, when we can figure out why a scout/courier should only be able to mount one missile turret or sandcaster turret, then we can figure out whether some construct actually needs more than one hardpoint. As you agree: we don't know. Lacking knowledge, we are ill positioned to speculate on whether a track system would need one or two or three.

... Does it make sense that a turret that includes parts to move it along a length of track cost the same as a standard turret and only need one hardpoint to support the tracks and the turret?

Allow me to summarize:

We have an alternate turret system that, by its own rules, is inferior to the standard turret system and that, by Book-2 or High Guard rules, does not actually address a need. Ships fire fine without a track system, even when docking and undocking their boats.

We propose that this inferior system should cost more than the standard turret system in credits and possibly in allocation of hardpoints.

This one, it's a headscratcher. How much does it cost to mount a rail to a hull that's supposedly already as strong as a foot thickness of steel? We don't know. Is that hull-strong-as-a-foot-thickness-of-steel adequate to support a rail, or does it need two or more hardpoints for added strength? We don't know. Any guess would be just that - pure speculation. The standard turret appears to be socketed in some way into the hull. Does it cost more to mount a rail than to attach a turret directly to a hardpoint? We don't know. We don't know how a turret attaches to a hardpoint. We know how much a hardpoint costs, we know how much a turret costs, we have no idea what equipment mates the turret to the hardpoint, nor what fraction of the turret's cost reflects that equipment, nor how the cost of such equipment would compare to the cost of mounting a rail along the hull. For purpose of argument, we will stipulate that it costs more - but we would be guessing if we tried to say how much.

And, by assigning an extra cost, we hope to accomplish - what? An inferior system that costs more and serves no need is not going to be adopted by other players in shipbuilding. In essence, we propose to make a change that affects only a single ship, so that its cost and construction make sense to us. There will be absolutely no other effect on play.

So, the crux of the matter: what gets included in official errata? Any gamemaster is within his rights to make corrections to fix whatever he believes does not make sense in Traveller, for his own personal game setting. For official errata, it's my understanding that they make changes when those changes either have some real impact on the game or resolve some conflict in canon or rules implementation. I could be wrong. Only the powers can say for sure.

I would propose to you that the manufacturer made a flawed product and that the Imperium, for whatever reason, decided to accept the ship rather than reject it at trials or send it back for revision. Maybe there were politics involved, or maybe the authorities judged that the ship was unlikely to see much combat and the degraded performance was not significant enough to warrant rejecting a ship that had made it past completion of the prototype. Maybe there was a pressing need or a deadline to meet, and a slight performance issue in a ship not intended for combat was not worth causing further delays. One way or the other, I would propose to you that a condition of acceptance was that the manufacturer eat the added cost of that inferior turret system. It would be a very small price to pay to salvage a contract that might otherwise have slipped out of their grasp.

In short, I would propose to you that it's easier to make up some workable rationalization than to add a new turret system into canon that, because of its poor performance and possibly added costs, will only ever be used for this one design.
 
Hello aramis,

snrdg - That article postdates the design by many years. It couldn't have been used in the design of any of the ships in Sup 7.

You are absolutely correct that the tidbit on the requirements for the pop turret's weapons stabilization system where written years later the design which hand waved new components into existence.

There are a few of options about bring the express boat tender into trim with Book 2 2nd edition. The most drastic is to throw the whole Supplement 7 design out and start from scratch to leaving the design as is so no one can follow the design.

My attempt is to leave as much as possible intact. The idea that non-standard items like a pop turret or mobile turret had no affect on the MCr and/or tons of the hull never made sense.

However, the authors of the article liked the pop turret that was introduced in Supplement 7 to make an effort to make the system available to for Book 5 2nd edition designs.
 
Last edited:
Hello Carlobrand,

Before replying, you mentioned that the tenders MCr was good, since Supplement 7 page 11 indicates that "Weapons costs have not been included in this price.".

Did the MCr include the turrets and hardpoints?

I'm in the process of modifying a spreadsheet to better handle the "standard" turret combinations which means I've not working on Supplement 7.

And once again I find myself guilty of imprecision. As I said, "neither of the CT rules systems, not Book 2 nor High Guard, sets any limit on a ship using all its available weapons while docking or undocking a subsidiary craft." Ergo the mobile turret serves no purpose within the scope of the combat rules. However, you are correct that Supplement 7, in introducing the turret, also introduces a rule regarding it: the turret is less accurate than its fixed counterpart.

You are correct that neither Book 2 or Book 5 set rules for using weapons while docking/undocking subsidiary ships or small craft. The combat rules are geared towards subsidiary ships/small craft that can maneuver on there own. The express boat tender is an exception to combat rules designed for ships and subsidiary ships or small craft that can maneuver while docking/undocking.

You are also correct that for the majority of Traveller ships and subsidiary ships/small craft that can maneuver while performing docking/undocking operation the combat rules mobile turrets do not serve a purpose any more that the pop turrets in the Maginot Line served in the real world.

However, to the author/designer of the express boat tender mobile turrets do have a purpose within the scope of the combat rules.

I just noticed that the author/designer on Supplement 7 page 11 comments that "Three weapons turrets arm the ship sufficiently to take care of most situations" then on page 14 indicates that the mobile turrets are not sufficient to take care of most situations.


And this is how I interpret a hardpoint as well. In a surface warship, the hardpoint is a reinforced point that can accept an armored turret for a weapon that projects shells by means of a powerful explosive force; it needs to be strong. In an aircraft, it's mainly the issue of being able to handle the aerodynamic forces involved as the aircraft flies with the weapon connected to that hardpoint.
Yippee, I appear to be on the right track and possibly on the same train.

For a ship, the structure of the ship itself dictates the number and strength of the hardpoints - too many or too powerful guns can cause problems for the ship mounting them. Lusitania could be armed, but she was never going to be able to fire the weapons of a dreadnought. (I don't recall whether Titanic was built to be armed.)
Oops, my error I was thinking of the Lusitania and used Titanic's name instead. However, I had to pull out "Anatomy of the Titanic" by Tom McCluskie and "Exploring the Lusitania" by Robert D. Bollard with Spencer Dunmore to make sure I was out to lunch.;-)

For an aircraft, performance needs dictate the number of hardpoints. For a scout/courier - well, when we can figure out why a scout/courier should only be able to mount one missile turret or sandcaster turret, then we can figure out whether some construct actually needs more than one hardpoint. As you agree: we don't know. Lacking knowledge, we are ill positioned to speculate on whether a track system would need one or two or three.
Allow me to summarize:

We have an alternate turret system that, by its own rules, is inferior to the standard turret system and that, by Book-2 or High Guard rules, does not actually address a need. Ships fire fine without a track system, even when docking and undocking their boats.

We propose that this inferior system should cost more than the standard turret system in credits and possibly in allocation of hardpoints.

This one, it's a headscratcher. How much does it cost to mount a rail to a hull that's supposedly already as strong as a foot thickness of steel? We don't know. Is that hull-strong-as-a-foot-thickness-of-steel adequate to support a rail, or does it need two or more hardpoints for added strength? We don't know. Any guess would be just that - pure speculation. The standard turret appears to be socketed in some way into the hull. Does it cost more to mount a rail than to attach a turret directly to a hardpoint? We don't know. We don't know how a turret attaches to a hardpoint. We know how much a hardpoint costs, we know how much a turret costs, we have no idea what equipment mates the turret to the hardpoint, nor what fraction of the turret's cost reflects that equipment, nor how the cost of such equipment would compare to the cost of mounting a rail along the hull. For purpose of argument, we will stipulate that it costs more - but we would be guessing if we tried to say how much.

And, by assigning an extra cost, we hope to accomplish - what? An inferior system that costs more and serves no need is not going to be adopted by other players in shipbuilding. In essence, we propose to make a change that affects only a single ship, so that its cost and construction make sense to us. There will be absolutely no other effect on play.

So, the crux of the matter: what gets included in official errata? Any gamemaster is within his rights to make corrections to fix whatever he believes does not make sense in Traveller, for his own personal game setting. For official errata, it's my understanding that they make changes when those changes either have some real impact on the game or resolve some conflict in canon or rules implementation. I could be wrong. Only the powers can say for sure.

I would propose to you that the manufacturer made a flawed product and that the Imperium, for whatever reason, decided to accept the ship rather than reject it at trials or send it back for revision. Maybe there were politics involved, or maybe the authorities judged that the ship was unlikely to see much combat and the degraded performance was not significant enough to warrant rejecting a ship that had made it past completion of the prototype. Maybe there was a pressing need or a deadline to meet, and a slight performance issue in a ship not intended for combat was not worth causing further delays. One way or the other, I would propose to you that a condition of acceptance was that the manufacturer eat the added cost of that inferior turret system. It would be a very small price to pay to salvage a contract that might otherwise have slipped out of their grasp.

In short, I would propose to you that it's easier to make up some workable rationalization than to add a new turret system into canon that, because of its poor performance and possibly added costs, will only ever be used for this one design.[/QUOTE]

I'm just going to shelve the whole thing since my view of things making sense is totally at odds with the majority.

Thanks for the replies I quit.
 
Last edited:
Hello Carlobrand,

I want to be able to replicate the Official Traveller designs using the design and construction rules as closely as possible. The express boat tender can not be replicated in any of the CT design systems without ignoring that adding a mechanism to raise and retract a turret or to add a mechanism that allows a turret to move along a fixed path does not change how much volume is used in the hull or changes the MCr of a turret does not make sense. Regardless of whether or not the equipment has a positive or negative affect on combat.

How much does it cost to mount a rail to a hull that's supposedly already as strong as a foot thickness of steel? .

I've looked in LBB 2, LBB 5, and TCS looking for the source about "hull that's supposedly already as strong as a foot thickness of steel." and as usual I haven't found the information. Could you please provide me with the source?

Thank you and everyone who has provided assistance to this point and I hope you all continue to help me out on other projects.

Respectfully,
 
Hello Carlobrand,

I want to be able to replicate the Official Traveller designs using the design and construction rules as closely as possible. The express boat tender can not be replicated in any of the CT design systems without ignoring that adding a mechanism to raise and retract a turret or to add a mechanism that allows a turret to move along a fixed path does not change how much volume is used in the hull or changes the MCr of a turret does not make sense. Regardless of whether or not the equipment has a positive or negative affect on combat.

Several of them cannot be. They include things which are not in any design sequence (including TNE, T4, T20, T5). Several others can only be done with pre-1981 design sequences.

The Mining Platform in Beltstrike is probably the worst offender... it has two non-standard items.
The Catch tanks on the Leaping Snowcat Safari Ship
The Gazelle CE.

The best advice I can give is to use the versions from T20 - I happen to know that they are redesigns. (We "Lead Playtesters" all checked the math.)
 
I like the Gazelle CE just for the 'anomaly' it is, sometimes you can't see the constellations for the individual stars if one gets so bogged down in such details.
 
...Did the MCr include the turrets and hardpoints? ...

I show hardpoints charged but not turrets. The price is for a ship without turrets. That is consistent with the description in Supplement 7, which states, "Weapons costs have not been included in this price."

...I'm just going to shelve the whole thing since my view of things making sense is totally at odds with the majority.

Thanks for the replies I quit.

Ummm - okay. It's been mostly me and you on the turret issue though, and I don't really think I count as "the majority." I'm just one opinion - admittedly a persistent opinion, but nonetheless just one opinion.

... I want to be able to replicate the Official Traveller designs using the design and construction rules as closely as possible. The express boat tender can not be replicated in any of the CT design systems without ignoring that adding a mechanism to raise and retract a turret or to add a mechanism that allows a turret to move along a fixed path does not change how much volume is used in the hull or changes the MCr of a turret does not make sense. Regardless of whether or not the equipment has a positive or negative affect on combat. ...

Well, as Aramis points out, there are a number of ships that include elements not found in the canon design tables. Gazelle is technically a 300 dT ship with drop tanks and four hardpoints, a popular canon ship and major headache for gamemasters who have to explain to a player why HIS custom-made ship with drop tanks can't have an extra hardpoint.

...I've looked in LBB 2, LBB 5, and TCS looking for the source about "hull that's supposedly already as strong as a foot thickness of steel." and as usual I haven't found the information. Could you please provide me with the source? ...

That would actually be Striker, a Traveller ground forces wargame, when it declares that an unarmored starship has an armor factor of 40. Technically, Striker's errata, since the game initially gave the ship an armor factor of 60 (Striker Book 2, page 41). In referring back to Striker's design table, you see that an armor factor of 40 is equivalent to 33.6 cm of hard steel. That's not to say the ship's hull is a foot thick steel, but that it has equivalent resistance to energy weapons, HEAP warheads, and kinetic damage from KEAP warheads or shell fragments. The EW and HEAP bit can be handled with specialized tricks, but it's hard to resist kinetic impact without a good deal of strength.

That was actually quite controversial, as Supplement 7, Double Adventure 5 (Horde/Chamax Plague) and other sources describe the hull as being no stronger than an interior bulkhead, something you could use a laser rifle on to carve a hole big enough to crawl in through; I made that as maybe an inch of steel over a strong framework. So, either the Chamax cannot burn their way into a Striker-imagined hull, or they could and all the interior bulkheads were as strong as a foot thickness of steel, and there's no way your laser rifle has enough energy in its pack to burn through a hull that can resist a factor-40 laser cannon. It created a fundamental canon conflict which hasn't been resolved.
 
Hello Aramis,

Several of them cannot be. They include things which are not in any design sequence (including TNE, T4, T20, T5). Several others can only be done with pre-1981 design sequences.

The Mining Platform in Beltstrike is probably the worst offender... it has two non-standard items.
The Catch tanks on the Leaping Snowcat Safari Ship
The Gazelle CE.

The best advice I can give is to use the versions from T20 - I happen to know that they are redesigns. (We "Lead Playtesters" all checked the math.)

Apparently, everyone complains about them not being able to recreate the designs because of the non-standard components and no one has attempted to fix them for a couple of decades.

I was trying to fix them, unfortunately I'm also a lousy salesman so I'm giving up.
 
I show hardpoints charged but not turrets. The price is for a ship without turrets. That is consistent with the description in Supplement 7, which states, "Weapons costs have not been included in this price."

Thank you for the information that the three hardpoints are accounted for.

I'm confused about turrets in general being equated with weapons.

From my understanding the reason for not including weapons cost is because "the weaponry of x-boat tenders varies wildly depending on what particular armament was available at the time of construction."

Updated 11/22/14: Oops forgot to add: That means to me that when the express boat tender is selected as part of an encounter you won't know what weapons are onboard until the referee fills in that particular blank. Of course by then the cost doesn't matter.

Book 2 1981 has the scout/courier with an empty double turret with no weaponry installed.

Of course not including the non-standard turrets used by the tender would have helped me to verify the design.

Ummm - okay. It's been mostly me and you on the turret issue though, and I don't really think I count as "the majority." I'm just one opinion - admittedly a persistent opinion, but nonetheless just one opinion.
The majority covers more than just the non-standard mobile turret issue, which unfortunately was the one that happened to push one of my buttons.

Well, as Aramis points out, there are a number of ships that include elements not found in the canon design tables. Gazelle is technically a 300 dT ship with drop tanks and four hardpoints, a popular canon ship and major headache for gamemasters who have to explain to a player why HIS custom-made ship with drop tanks can't have an extra hardpoint.
The Consolidated CT Errata addresses the Gazelle issues in sections for High Guard, Traders and Gunboats, and Fighting Ships.

Here is the errata for the Gazelle from High Guard, Traders and Gunboats sections and the entry for the JTAS #4 Gazelle article.

High Guard
Page 50, CE-13768 Unicorn (clarification): [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]The [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Gazelle [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]class Close Escort, as originally presented in [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]JTAS #4[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial], represents a variant of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]material grafted onto Book 2. This results in a design which cannot be legally built using rules in either [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]edition. The USP presented here represents the design for use in [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]combat.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Traders and Gunboats
Page 30-35, Close Escort (type CE) (clarification): [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]The [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Gazelle [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]class Close Escort, as originally presented in [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]JTAS #4[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial], represents a variant of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]material grafted onto Book 2. This results in a design which cannot be legally built using rules in either [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]edition.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Here is what JTAS #4 says:

"The barbettes, and the particle accelerator weapons, are not specifically covered in Traveller Book. They are a variant drawn from the material in High Guard, and grafted onto Book 2. Specifically, the barbettes are five tons each. The particle accelerators should be treated as heavy lasers in Traveller Book 2, subject to and advantageous DM of +2 to hit. Damage from such a hit should be skewed toward crew causalities, electronic and computer damage if there is no fiber optic back-up present."

I'm not sure if the errata is correct, not having made an attempt on my own.

As to the "Gazelle is technically a 300 dT ship with drop tanks and four hardpoints, a popular canon ship and major headache for gamemasters who have to explain to a player why HIS custom-made ship with drop tanks can't have an extra hardpoint."

From the Fighting Ships errata section

"Page 17, [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Gazelle[/FONT][/FONT]-class Close Escort (correction): [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]According to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]High Guard [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]rules (and Book 2 rules), a 300 ton ship can only have 3 hardpoints.[/FONT][/FONT]"

That would actually be Striker, a Traveller ground forces wargame, when it declares that an unarmored starship has an armor factor of 40. Technically, Striker's errata, since the game initially gave the ship an armor factor of 60 (Striker Book 2, page 41). In referring back to Striker's design table, you see that an armor factor of 40 is equivalent to 33.6 cm of hard steel. That's not to say the ship's hull is a foot thick steel, but that it has equivalent resistance to energy weapons, HEAP warheads, and kinetic damage from KEAP warheads or shell fragments. The EW and HEAP bit can be handled with specialized tricks, but it's hard to resist kinetic impact without a good deal of strength.

That was actually quite controversial, as Supplement 7, Double Adventure 5 (Horde/Chamax Plague) and other sources describe the hull as being no stronger than an interior bulkhead, something you could use a laser rifle on to carve a hole big enough to crawl in through; I made that as maybe an inch of steel over a strong framework. So, either the Chamax cannot burn their way into a Striker-imagined hull, or they could and all the interior bulkheads were as strong as a foot thickness of steel, and there's no way your laser rifle has enough energy in its pack to burn through a hull that can resist a factor-40 laser cannon. It created a fundamental canon conflict which hasn't been resolved.
I had an inkling that the reference might be in Striker, but my average on this sort of thing is dismal for being right.

The only book I have immediate access to is Supplement 7, the others are buried in the corner under other stuff. I've apparently missed the reference that the hull is no stronger than interior bulkheads, could I please get the page number.

Thank you again for your assistance, even if I disagree and pout a bit.
 
Last edited:
Almost all of Striker's tech paradigm was later incorporated into MegaTraveller. HG was bent and twisted to match striker numbers in MT.
 
That bit is actually inferred from Double Adventure 5, Horde/Chamax Plague.

Spoiler:
The Chamax are described as having burned their way into Shaarin Challenger, a subsidized merchant. The adventurers find the ship with several meter-wide holes in the hull near the ground. On entering the ship, more holes are found both in interior bulkheads and decks. The subsequent description of the Chamax reveals that they do 6d6 acid damage to the hull by going up to it and discharging their acid sac at it. The description states, "Ship bulkheads require 1000 points to breach, interior walls 100 points. The holes made by acid action will be about 1 meter across." The game does not discriminate between interior and exterior bulkheads.

It is to my knowledge the only case where the outer hull itself is being penetrated. Most of the rest of the adventures where they're trying to get into a ship, you get, "Simplistic solutions to the entry problem (such as cutting through the hull or blasting the ship with laser fire) should be discouraged ..."

However,
Spoiler:
a single chamax puts out an average 21 points of acid damage before exhausting its sac. Coming up with 1000 points requires about 50 chamax. Were we to assume a Striker-rated hull, it could take a thousand or more chamax to penetrate a hull in one spot, or we would have to up the power ot volume of the acid to the point where it would only take one or two chamax to burn through interior bulkheads, potentially affecting the flow of that adventure.

So, applying a Striker hull to that case creates a bit of a problem.
 
Chamaxian bugs1 are pretty cinematic to begin with. Fun, there's no denying, but not the traditional kind of down-to-earth Traveller menace. Not unique, but a bit over the top, just like Reticulan parasites.

1 Chamax is the name of the world. Calling the bugs 'chamax' is IMO a grammatical error. They'd be called Chamaxian bugs or McWhirter's Bugs, or acid bugs or hellbugs or something like that. But not 'chamax' any more than the American Eagle is called 'the america'.


Hans
 
...
1 Chamax is the name of the world. Calling the bugs 'chamax' is IMO a grammatical error. They'd be called Chamaxian bugs or McWhirter's Bugs, or acid bugs or hellbugs or something like that. But not 'chamax' any more than the American Eagle is called 'the america'.
...

That may well be, but it's what the author of the adventure calls them, and I figure he's entitled.:D
 
That may well be, but it's what the author of the adventure calls them, and I figure he's entitled.:D

I figure the writer of an adventure is just as able to make a mistake as anyone else. And I see no reason to compound the mistake by repeating it. So until you can provide me with an example of an animal called an america or an england or a denmark or a spain or some other country, I do not agree that the writer is entitled.


Hans
 
Evening Carlobrand,

Thank you for the information.

That bit is actually inferred from Double Adventure 5, Horde/Chamax Plague.

Spoiler:
The Chamax are described as having burned their way into Shaarin Challenger, a subsidized merchant. The adventurers find the ship with several meter-wide holes in the hull near the ground. On entering the ship, more holes are found both in interior bulkheads and decks. The subsequent description of the Chamax reveals that they do 6d6 acid damage to the hull by going up to it and discharging their acid sac at it. The description states, "Ship bulkheads require 1000 points to breach, interior walls 100 points. The holes made by acid action will be about 1 meter across." The game does not discriminate between interior and exterior bulkheads.

It is to my knowledge the only case where the outer hull itself is being penetrated. Most of the rest of the adventures where they're trying to get into a ship, you get, "Simplistic solutions to the entry problem (such as cutting through the hull or blasting the ship with laser fire) should be discouraged ..."

However,
Spoiler:
a single chamax puts out an average 21 points of acid damage before exhausting its sac. Coming up with 1000 points requires about 50 chamax. Were we to assume a Striker-rated hull, it could take a thousand or more chamax to penetrate a hull in one spot, or we would have to up the power ot volume of the acid to the point where it would only take one or two chamax to burn through interior bulkheads, potentially affecting the flow of that adventure.

So, applying a Striker hull to that case creates a bit of a problem.

I have the FFE book containing The Short Adventures, but I have not done more than give them a glance.

I don't really know more than a spaceship's hull is designed to keep the people tank from popping like a balloon which is the opposite of a submarine's hull which is designed to keep the people tank from being crushed like an aluminum can.
 
Evening Hans and Carlobrand,

I figure the writer of an adventure is just as able to make a mistake as anyone else. And I see no reason to compound the mistake by repeating it. So until you can provide me with an example of an animal called an america or an england or a denmark or a spain or some other country, I do not agree that the writer is entitled.


Hans

While this is an interesting tangent it is also going way off course from the express boat tender.

The datum from Double Adventure 5 is the alien bugs, sort of like in the first Alien movie, had acid that could eat through the material hull of a starship.

IIRC in the first Alien movie the acid quickly burned through a couple of decks but had weakened or diluted to a point that it barely dissolved the surface of the inside of the outer hull.

Thanks for both the side issue and information on the hull.
 
The datum from Double Adventure 5 is the alien bugs, sort of like in the first Alien movie, had acid that could eat through the material hull of a starship.
And acid blood, especially of such potency, is rather cinematic and perhaps not the very best evidence for everyday Traveller conditions.


Hans
 
Morning Hans,

And acid blood, especially of such potency, is rather cinematic and perhaps not the very best evidence for everyday Traveller conditions.


Hans

Yes, very cinematic and I'm wondering if the movie may have influenced the adventure. Most of the Adventures in my opinion are not everyday occurrences in Traveller either.
 
Morning Hans,



Yes, very cinematic and I'm wondering if the movie may have influenced the adventure. Most of the Adventures in my opinion are not everyday occurrences in Traveller either.

What, you don't spelunk in gas giant cloud cities and run into 300,000 year old Droyne every day? ;)

As I said, the Chamax (:rofl:) are the only beasties creating headaches for hull design. However, while they're the only ones creating problems for canon hulls, that's certainly not the only adventure that introduces some kink that gives us headaches elsewhere. We can maybe develop a rationale why their acid works differently on superdense armor than on the interior bulkheads - though I frankly can't think of anything.

Point was - back there a bit - that Trav has a few examples of ships with unique design features that don't make it into the ship's pricing. Supplement 9 has this neat "jump ship" that introduces a kind of jump net it uses to transport asteroids and other materials through jump space. No idea what it costs or how much space it takes on the ship when not deployed. It'd be neat to be able to add something like that to the construction rules, but no data.

The tender's price is without turrets, per the description. That means that any add-on of turrets would be by the gamemaster to suit his own needs - whether he wanted the ship unarmed or wanted single turrets with lasers or triple turrets with whatever. That leaves us free to assume the Scout Service paid whatever we happen to think is the appropriate price for the added turrets, and leaves us without a need to errata the stated price of the ship.
 
If I may, happy to 'nudge' the thread back in the general direction of it's intended subject.

That said, I've always thought the tender should be equipped with a few 'axillary' craft to assist in repairs and general operations.

A sort of BobCat-forklift would be a practical consideration for handling cargo containers or tasked to duties involving scout-courier or x-boat maintenance, perhaps a pair of said utility vehicles to maximize such a resource.

One other thought might be a dedicated drone for fuel-skimming operations, allowing the tender to better utilize it's 'on-station' time when at a maintenance rendezvous point.
 
Back
Top