Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
You may want to go ahead with your CT adventure. Even if you receive T5 tomorrow, it is going to take a lot of time to digest. There's A LOT in the book, and it's not easy reading.
T5 - The Verdict
- Thread starter Supplement Four
- Start date
You may want to go ahead with your CT adventure. Even if you receive T5 tomorrow, it is going to take a lot of time to digest. There's A LOT in the book, and it's not easy reading.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
If the lead of the software development team chooses not to incorporate feedback from beta testing and fix bugs submitted in bug reports, and chooses to release the software as-is anyway, it's still going to come across as beta. And broken.
There's no reason to question the motives of those who are disappointed by this book. Anyone (like myself) who backed it or purchased it with hard earned dollars didn't do so in order to advance some agenda. You're entitled to your opinion that the book is "awesome" and "one of the greatest SciFi RPG games ever made." I'm entitled to my opinion that it is "unplayable" and "so poorly designed that it doesn't currently qualify as a game." You can try to pass it off as "a few" naysayers, but even here on CoTI there are more who see severe issues with T5 than find it to be "awesome", let alone "essential".
It got support. A couple hundred thousand dollars worth. What it needs is to be finished, and finished properly. There's a few thousand of us waiting on the mythical "Player's Guide" that was promised, along with some other items like the deckplans. Until that time, I can say without reservation and without ulterior motive that the Traveller 5 Core book is easily the worst publication in my collection to bear the Traveller name. I have spent a good chunk of the weekend going through it and I am floored by how disappointing it is. Of the 30 Kickstarter and IndieGoGo projects I have backed, T5 is -- with one exception -- the one project where I feel the pledge was wasted (the exception delivered nothing at all).
Regardless of your opinion, my opinion is that nearly every issue that has been pointed out by many over the past few months -- and that you dismiss as unreasonable expectations of perfection -- is reasonable and should have been addressed before the book was even sent to the printer. There is no excuse for any game forum to be filled so quickly with so many threads by project backers and paying customers trying to interpret the designer's intent. Not a single soul here expected "perfect" (a strawman) nor a release without some reasonable amount of errata, a line was crossed very quickly. Based on the majority of feedback, it would be much more accurate to say, rather, that many of us didn't expect what was delivered. Those expectations were set by Marc himself.
Personally, I find the feedback of those customers who are pointing out the problems and trying to fix them much more useful than those who are trying to cover them up. In my opinion, the key to T5's place in the overall Traveller legacy is what Marc chooses to do with that feedback, and the support that was given to him a year ago.
Up to that point, I can agree.
"It is unplayable" is NOT opinion; the fact that there is a PBEM or two running on this BBS proves it to be a counterfactual claim. The claim that you find it unplayable is different than the claim that it is unplayable, and is one of opinion.
If anyone can play it, it isn't unplayable, but you might still find that it is unplayable for you.
Subtle, niggling, semantic distinctions. But important, niggling, semantic distinctions.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
Come on, it should be obvious that anything I say after "my opinion" is subjective. I didn't state these things as irrefutable fact. And I'm not the one casting aspersions and implying motivations.
Why would you call me out on this? I don't expect you to point out to Spaceresearcher that just because he finds T5 awesome and essential, others do not agree so that is "counterfactual". Is it simply because my opinion of T5 is less than favorable, it is therefore subject to different scrutiny?
If I say "my opinion," "I feel," "personally," and so on, it should not be a requirement (semantically, or within the etiquette of this board) that I add "I find" or "to me" to every sentence. Nor do I think that I should be subject to special semantic rules, especially when my meaning was clear.
To be clear: Personally, in my opinion (which is mine), I find Traveller 5 to be unplayable as it applies to me, and not necessarily others.
Because (1) I tend towards pedantry, and (2) it's one thing to state clearly opinions; it's another, infractable, thing to make false claims damaging to FFE on the boards.
I'm NOT infracting you over it, but it's one of those areas where the claim you made was not the claim you intended, and I can't allow further such claims as the one you made. I won't censor your opinions, but you need to clearly state them as opinions (rather than in factual mode), especially when the factual mode is falsifiable.
I called you on it publicly because it's an object lesson for everyone else in the thread as well.
I'm a big fan of T5, i was a huge fan of Megatraveller which until i got my copy of T5 was the system i used for most of my Sci-Fi (the other system being Alternity). Yes there are some problems but most of them appear to be fairly minor and a matter of interpretation although i can see some bigish problems in the combat section, but again that's mostly a matter of playstyle in my case. Every system i have bought over the years, and i have a lot, i have made changes too and house ruled things within them, T5 is going to be no different.
It looks good on my shelves with all the other roleplaying games i own and i like the game itself, having reffed a couple of sessions now, and my players like it, and for me thats what matters.
It looks good on my shelves with all the other roleplaying games i own and i like the game itself, having reffed a couple of sessions now, and my players like it, and for me thats what matters.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Wow! How do you manage to carry all that water? Drop Tanks?
Meow!
Does it occur to you that just maybe some of us genuinely dig the game? I know I am biased, so I may not be best cheerleader for the game, but I do so because I too love the game.
As to the Index, as I said before I will eat some of the blame sandwich for that missing bit and I can't comment on Personal Combat not having run one, but this unplayable line seems a bit iffy to me. What makes it unplayable? The fact you might have to sit and read 600+ pages, that it does not have flow charts, what?
I ask because I have run games with it, in fact I am running a PbP with it and may be getting my meatspace group back together (conflicting work schedules shot it for a while there) and so far it seems to work fine. But again, I haven't run a Personal Combat (though I have run several Space Combats) so I do reserve the right to come back and agree that it has problems.
Well, off to hook up some more tanks for the next jump.
Those help.
Does it occur to you that just maybe some of us genuinely dig the game? I know I am biased, so I may not be best cheerleader for the game, but I do so because I too love the game.
As to the Index, as I said before I will eat some of the blame sandwich for that missing bit and I can't comment on Personal Combat not having run one, but this unplayable line seems a bit iffy to me. What makes it unplayable? The fact you might have to sit and read 600+ pages, that it does not have flow charts, what?
I ask because I have run games with it, in fact I am running a PbP with it and may be getting my meatspace group back together (conflicting work schedules shot it for a while there) and so far it seems to work fine. But again, I haven't run a Personal Combat (though I have run several Space Combats) so I do reserve the right to come back and agree that it has problems.
Well, off to hook up some more tanks for the next jump.
Those help.
Does it occur to you that just maybe some of us genuinely dig the game? I know I am biased, so I may not be best cheerleader for the game, but I do so because I too love the game.
As to the Index, as I said before I will eat some of the blame sandwich for that missing bit and I can't comment on Personal Combat not having run one, but this unplayable line seems a bit iffy to me. What makes it unplayable? The fact you might have to sit and read 600+ pages, that it does not have flow charts, what?
I ask because I have run games with it, in fact I am running a PbP with it and may be getting my meatspace group back together (conflicting work schedules shot it for a while there) and so far it seems to work fine. But again, I haven't run a Personal Combat (though I have run several Space Combats) so I do reserve the right to come back and agree that it has problems.
Well, off to hook up some more tanks for the next jump.
I can't fathom why anybody would be posting on this forum, or having bought the game without some sort of affection for the broader game. That is why questioning the motivations of people who are complaining is, flatly, quite offensive.
As stated before, the problems people have with the game is not citing the size of the book or even the system's complexity - they wouldn't have bought it if they were turned off by those things, as they were known aspects - it's the fact that sub systems (notably the combat system) don't work without house ruling and self arbitrating.
Beyond that, concepts aren't explained fully or adequately, while the proliferation of pointless abbreviations, confusing tables and no means of locating key information quickly (i.e no index) leaves the idea of actually running it (which is actually what our group was intending to do this week) completely at a loss. We couldn't play it, and none of us are exactly novices.
I don't think playing PBEM means fully qualified to be able to state it is 'playable' in the context of the intended full tabletop gameplay - and you have said as much about the combat system. What other systems have you used and tested?
thalassogen
SOC-12
My personal verdict
My personal verdict:
* T5 is ultimate in its scope (if compared to CT or MT).
* T5 is not ultimate in gaming. Far from.
* I like character generation.
* I dislike the makers - they are nicely easy, but seem badly implemented or at least badly explained.
* I hate the combat system.
* I like the details that are hidden everywhere in this tome.
* I first disliked the dice mechanics but after reading through them got to like them.
T5 is no out-of-the-box game for me - to much tinkering needed to implement what I expect of a modern role-playing game. I may sometimes try to run a game (when errata answers the most important questions and fills in the missing explanations and clarifications) but for now I will stay with GURPS Traveller and start investing in Mongoose Traveller (I postponed that due to the upcoming T5 but I see no reason not to go to Mongoose now and maybe spice it with some parts of T5 when really needed).
That said I guess I would still sponsor a Kickstarter campaign that will concern itself with background/setting material for T5 and/or campaigns/adventures, and if the PDF option includes electronic rather than physical delivery to shorten the wait for the book. Rules/mechanics-wise I feel disappointed - so no rules companions for me.
My personal verdict:
* T5 is ultimate in its scope (if compared to CT or MT).
* T5 is not ultimate in gaming. Far from.
* I like character generation.
* I dislike the makers - they are nicely easy, but seem badly implemented or at least badly explained.
* I hate the combat system.
* I like the details that are hidden everywhere in this tome.
* I first disliked the dice mechanics but after reading through them got to like them.
T5 is no out-of-the-box game for me - to much tinkering needed to implement what I expect of a modern role-playing game. I may sometimes try to run a game (when errata answers the most important questions and fills in the missing explanations and clarifications) but for now I will stay with GURPS Traveller and start investing in Mongoose Traveller (I postponed that due to the upcoming T5 but I see no reason not to go to Mongoose now and maybe spice it with some parts of T5 when really needed).
That said I guess I would still sponsor a Kickstarter campaign that will concern itself with background/setting material for T5 and/or campaigns/adventures, and if the PDF option includes electronic rather than physical delivery to shorten the wait for the book. Rules/mechanics-wise I feel disappointed - so no rules companions for me.
There are some great things about T5, some great mechanics and ideas. There a few systems that seem overly complex and, for the most part, totally unrequired (genetics comes to mind).
There are other systems that are needed in at least half the adventures I run and they're broken (in my opinion*). Personal combat is not just difficult to understand (which it is), but there are enough issues highlighted in it now to show how the rules cause completely illogical choices to be the superior option. Traveller is a space opera RPG, personal combat isn't some abnormal event. The game even features the Aslan - a race where personal combat is societally expected!
I can fully understand the feelings and opinions of those in the thread when they express disappointment that the game isn't complete. I too feel it's missing more than just an index. As a toolkit, it's beyond fantastic. Really, there is a wealth of cool options to add to a Traveller game in it. As a core rules set for a space opera, I feel it is lacking.
There is no underlying agenda to my post, no anti-FFE sentiment I want to express, no animosity at all. I am speaking from a month of poring over the rules and trying one or two games. I haven't tried space-combat, so it;s possible that part of the rules are awesome... but my games start on the ground and the characters are semi-regularly involved in shoot-outs, duels, and one-on-one combat situations. Perhaps this staple of space opera adventures put me into the situation to see the (in my opinion*) one major hole in the rules, but it's still (in my opinion*) a major hole for a core ruleset to have.
Depending on the future of the errata effort and/or corrections coming from Marc in the future, it may be that T5 remains only a toolkit (albeit a very detailed one) to be plugged into a core of house-rules. Not what I expected nor, I believe, what most did when purchasing the book.
That said, I'll refrain from further comment as it appears that the moderators are taking criticism of T5 as borderline tearing down of FFE. I don't want to be banned after paying for the Moot access (even if I don't really make much use of the features), so best to err on the one possibly deleted post than make a nuisance of myself.
* Apparently, this is now a required element of posts not praising T5.
There are other systems that are needed in at least half the adventures I run and they're broken (in my opinion*). Personal combat is not just difficult to understand (which it is), but there are enough issues highlighted in it now to show how the rules cause completely illogical choices to be the superior option. Traveller is a space opera RPG, personal combat isn't some abnormal event. The game even features the Aslan - a race where personal combat is societally expected!
I can fully understand the feelings and opinions of those in the thread when they express disappointment that the game isn't complete. I too feel it's missing more than just an index. As a toolkit, it's beyond fantastic. Really, there is a wealth of cool options to add to a Traveller game in it. As a core rules set for a space opera, I feel it is lacking.
There is no underlying agenda to my post, no anti-FFE sentiment I want to express, no animosity at all. I am speaking from a month of poring over the rules and trying one or two games. I haven't tried space-combat, so it;s possible that part of the rules are awesome... but my games start on the ground and the characters are semi-regularly involved in shoot-outs, duels, and one-on-one combat situations. Perhaps this staple of space opera adventures put me into the situation to see the (in my opinion*) one major hole in the rules, but it's still (in my opinion*) a major hole for a core ruleset to have.
Depending on the future of the errata effort and/or corrections coming from Marc in the future, it may be that T5 remains only a toolkit (albeit a very detailed one) to be plugged into a core of house-rules. Not what I expected nor, I believe, what most did when purchasing the book.
That said, I'll refrain from further comment as it appears that the moderators are taking criticism of T5 as borderline tearing down of FFE. I don't want to be banned after paying for the Moot access (even if I don't really make much use of the features), so best to err on the one possibly deleted post than make a nuisance of myself.
* Apparently, this is now a required element of posts not praising T5.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
I'd like to point out that there is nothing offensive about disagreeing with the opinions of others.
I'd also like to point out that there are players who are using it without any drama's, so if you have issues playing it, why not ask some fellow Travellers how to play it?
The crux of my gripe is that it's far too early to be giving T5 a final verdict when it's only just come out. Not even Marc will have had time to digest feedback at this stage(still very busy completing orders I would imagine).
When the players handbook is released(which may very well expunge many of the issues(in particular the combat since that seems to be the main problem a lot of fellow fans are having with T5), it may very well provide the necessary information you require.
As for the index. Hell, maybe it got dropped because A) Printing Costs, B)Everyone who got a book received a CDROM and you can search that easily from your computer(everyone putting posts on here has one) and C) Perhaps there was a page limit, or the inclusion of the nice spacecraft recognition guide prevented it from being possible? In any case, I'm sure we could all put together a PDF one that fellow players could download, print and put in the back of there books. There, problem solved.
As to the 'I paid money for this, I deserve a product that helps me to levitate into the air and spin around at whatever RPM I desire', well once again, it was a Kickstarter, it did mean supporting Traveller, it did mean you may not receive anything at all. It's the chance all of us took. Personally I wasn't involved in the beta testing, so I can't comment on what should have gone into it in regards to what other players are annoyed about but to say it's unplayable is a bit unfair.
Guys, it's arrived, T5 is here and personally I for one am really liking it. T4 had an index and I have to say it did nothing to make it super duper fantisco. T5 is light years ahead of T4. As for the combat system, if your already a Traveller player and you have a combat system you already use, then why not just adapt that to the T5 system and there you go, back to playing and having fun.
For all those like myself who are enjoying T5, WAY TO GO!!!!
Together we can make it perfect. I've got one fellow Traveller fan who is a mad keen Megatraveller fan. With all the updates, he got to the point where he literally went through the book and stuck the updates over the error sections. Now he has the perfect set of Traveller rules. I mention this as a possible suggestion for fixes to T5 if they are required. Sometimes providing a solution instead of a problem can be more worthy than being dissatisfied.
Anyway, that's my two waste disposal bio hazard containers to ditch in jump space.
I'd also like to point out that there are players who are using it without any drama's, so if you have issues playing it, why not ask some fellow Travellers how to play it?
The crux of my gripe is that it's far too early to be giving T5 a final verdict when it's only just come out. Not even Marc will have had time to digest feedback at this stage(still very busy completing orders I would imagine).
When the players handbook is released(which may very well expunge many of the issues(in particular the combat since that seems to be the main problem a lot of fellow fans are having with T5), it may very well provide the necessary information you require.
As for the index. Hell, maybe it got dropped because A) Printing Costs, B)Everyone who got a book received a CDROM and you can search that easily from your computer(everyone putting posts on here has one) and C) Perhaps there was a page limit, or the inclusion of the nice spacecraft recognition guide prevented it from being possible? In any case, I'm sure we could all put together a PDF one that fellow players could download, print and put in the back of there books. There, problem solved.
As to the 'I paid money for this, I deserve a product that helps me to levitate into the air and spin around at whatever RPM I desire', well once again, it was a Kickstarter, it did mean supporting Traveller, it did mean you may not receive anything at all. It's the chance all of us took. Personally I wasn't involved in the beta testing, so I can't comment on what should have gone into it in regards to what other players are annoyed about but to say it's unplayable is a bit unfair.
Guys, it's arrived, T5 is here and personally I for one am really liking it. T4 had an index and I have to say it did nothing to make it super duper fantisco. T5 is light years ahead of T4. As for the combat system, if your already a Traveller player and you have a combat system you already use, then why not just adapt that to the T5 system and there you go, back to playing and having fun.
For all those like myself who are enjoying T5, WAY TO GO!!!!
Together we can make it perfect. I've got one fellow Traveller fan who is a mad keen Megatraveller fan. With all the updates, he got to the point where he literally went through the book and stuck the updates over the error sections. Now he has the perfect set of Traveller rules. I mention this as a possible suggestion for fixes to T5 if they are required. Sometimes providing a solution instead of a problem can be more worthy than being dissatisfied.
Anyway, that's my two waste disposal bio hazard containers to ditch in jump space.
thalassogen
SOC-12
That's exactly what I am hoping for - clarified, streamlined rules in the promised player's handbook.
For the record, I bought my copy from this site - not Kickstarter - and I'm still waiting for the physical thing. We were reading through my gaming groups electronic copy over the last week or so. Either way, I think that paying money for a product should eventuate in that product being something that you would have wanted to pay for. Saying it is unplayable is not unfair if you literally find you cannot play it out of the box.
I could and I would say that there are some things I like in the book, but your attempts to discredit those people who are making legitimate criticisms is infuriating and totally counter-productive to your intent.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
Understood. I see where your line is. We're cool.
That is... counterfactual.
*sigh*
It is moments like these where I do sort of hate the lack of 70% of the information when interacting with humans.
Okay, first off, I have totally copped to the fan boy bias to a degree (I did after all accomplish a dream I have had since I was a young Traveller of getting a credit in a gaming book or two before I die). I also admit there are things that I don't actually know if there are issues with as I have not used all the systems. And last, I am apparently not being clear enough and am coming off like a dick. The later I can cop to at times (though not here as I am trying to be totally civil, really) and the former is just something I am working to correct.
Now, again I do not see what difference there is from my running people in a game in a Play by Post or a Meatspace game. Both have people describing their character's actions, rolling dice for random results and rules arbitration by the Referee. Where is the difference other than distance and physical presence? I honestly do not see one. To me (and this is a gamer not a T5 gamer exclusively) there is no real difference. Hence my question.
Now, as to its over complexity such as Genetics, some of us love them and use them since we love T4 too and play Pocket Empires games (in meatspace one of my players wants to play Kingmaker...IN SPACE! to the point where he proposed committing High Treason to the Ref) so things like Genetics start becoming very needed what with all the dynasties and houses I have going, not mention the Life Insurance Clones that will probably get activated if my players mess up bad.
Speaking of Genetics (every character I have made in T5 has them noted), it is one of the many systems I have worked with (and again let me apologize for not thinking of indexes and slacking in my proofing duties). The total list is in no particular order are ACS (various HMS Herald builds), Gunmaker (you should have seen the Moonbuster Heavy Assualt Shotgun, sick and stupid wrong), VehicleMaker (Wiseman Yards' 36Mod-D Fast Boat), System and World Generation and Mapping ([FS 0724] Colony A), Character Generation (three games worth, PC and NPC), the Equipment List (Lt. Coronel Sutton, RMR went nuts on the Power Cells, it was like he knew I am a dick GM about having it on your sheet or just not having it :devil
, QREBS (like all the time), Benchmarks, Money, Psionics (which, surprise I too have some clarification issues with ), Technology, Sophonts (a term I totally dig, built the Voodgi NIL of Colony-A), a smidge of Trade and Commerce, Robots, BeastMaker, and Computers. So yeah, I have messed with most of Traveller5's systems and for the most part players and I seem to be playing with it fine. Time will tell however and I can't say it has been flawless, but not unplayable.
And again, this may be be me. And my dozen or so players who seem to be having more problems with knowledge of my ATU (my fault, but I am working on correcting that currently) than with the T5 rules.
It is moments like these where I do sort of hate the lack of 70% of the information when interacting with humans.
Okay, first off, I have totally copped to the fan boy bias to a degree (I did after all accomplish a dream I have had since I was a young Traveller of getting a credit in a gaming book or two before I die). I also admit there are things that I don't actually know if there are issues with as I have not used all the systems. And last, I am apparently not being clear enough and am coming off like a dick. The later I can cop to at times (though not here as I am trying to be totally civil, really) and the former is just something I am working to correct.
Now, again I do not see what difference there is from my running people in a game in a Play by Post or a Meatspace game. Both have people describing their character's actions, rolling dice for random results and rules arbitration by the Referee. Where is the difference other than distance and physical presence? I honestly do not see one. To me (and this is a gamer not a T5 gamer exclusively) there is no real difference. Hence my question.
Now, as to its over complexity such as Genetics, some of us love them and use them since we love T4 too and play Pocket Empires games (in meatspace one of my players wants to play Kingmaker...IN SPACE! to the point where he proposed committing High Treason to the Ref) so things like Genetics start becoming very needed what with all the dynasties and houses I have going, not mention the Life Insurance Clones that will probably get activated if my players mess up bad.
Speaking of Genetics (every character I have made in T5 has them noted), it is one of the many systems I have worked with (and again let me apologize for not thinking of indexes and slacking in my proofing duties). The total list is in no particular order are ACS (various HMS Herald builds), Gunmaker (you should have seen the Moonbuster Heavy Assualt Shotgun, sick and stupid wrong), VehicleMaker (Wiseman Yards' 36Mod-D Fast Boat), System and World Generation and Mapping ([FS 0724] Colony A), Character Generation (three games worth, PC and NPC), the Equipment List (Lt. Coronel Sutton, RMR went nuts on the Power Cells, it was like he knew I am a dick GM about having it on your sheet or just not having it :devil
, QREBS (like all the time), Benchmarks, Money, Psionics (which, surprise I too have some clarification issues with ), Technology, Sophonts (a term I totally dig, built the Voodgi NIL of Colony-A), a smidge of Trade and Commerce, Robots, BeastMaker, and Computers. So yeah, I have messed with most of Traveller5's systems and for the most part players and I seem to be playing with it fine. Time will tell however and I can't say it has been flawless, but not unplayable.And again, this may be be me. And my dozen or so players who seem to be having more problems with knowledge of my ATU (my fault, but I am working on correcting that currently) than with the T5 rules.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Well to make it FACTUAL.
Everyone who backed the Kickstarter to go towards the book reward or for that matter who backed at $51 or more, also got the CDROM(all those who have received there rewards so far in any case).
That IS a FACT.
Also for ECHO, some(in fact in my mind many) of the claims are NOT legitimate(especially when just one mechanic is not to there liking so the whole game becomes unplayable. Surely even you must agree, that's a load of K'Kree droppings). If you have the CDROM (or access to it) checked it out and you don't like it, why purchase a copy of the book anyway? Also I have not discredited anyone. You said that, not me. I've merely pointed out the fact that many of us like it and that the claims of a few are not justification for giving T5 a bad verdict before the designers(who are extremely busy) get a chance to provide the answers. If I was one of the designers I may be thinking through all this of the age old saying: "I can explain it to you, but I can't help you understand it!".
Wouldn't it be fair to wait until the release of the Players handbook and some feedback from the actual designers before passing judgement.
Everyone who backed the Kickstarter to go towards the book reward or for that matter who backed at $51 or more, also got the CDROM(all those who have received there rewards so far in any case).
That IS a FACT.
Also for ECHO, some(in fact in my mind many) of the claims are NOT legitimate(especially when just one mechanic is not to there liking so the whole game becomes unplayable. Surely even you must agree, that's a load of K'Kree droppings). If you have the CDROM (or access to it) checked it out and you don't like it, why purchase a copy of the book anyway? Also I have not discredited anyone. You said that, not me. I've merely pointed out the fact that many of us like it and that the claims of a few are not justification for giving T5 a bad verdict before the designers(who are extremely busy) get a chance to provide the answers. If I was one of the designers I may be thinking through all this of the age old saying: "I can explain it to you, but I can't help you understand it!".
Wouldn't it be fair to wait until the release of the Players handbook and some feedback from the actual designers before passing judgement.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
But that's not what you said. And anyone buying the book from a retailer, from FFE directly or from the secondary market does not have access to the CD-ROM. That IS a FACT. And they deserve to know that. Now.
That IS a QUOTE. YOUR words.
No, that wouldn't be "fair", that would be something you would prefer. It is not "unfair" to review and pass judgment on any publication upon its official release.
I think that 2001: A Space Odyssey is awesome and an essential part of any film collection. I think it is probably the greatest science fiction film of all time.
My wife does not agree with me. She finds it boring and does not understand the ending. She may even find it to be "unwatchable" but, having watched it myself a number of times, I understand this to be her opinion and I accept it.
I haven't told her that, to be fair, she needs to wait until Kubrick gives her a call to explain it. Fortunately, for her. And I don't tell my friends to "ignore" her when it comes up in conversation. Fortunately, for me.
We're all grown-ups here, I'm sure that most everyone is capable of reading the variety of opinions and reviewing the facts, and can make their own purchasing decision.
Not at all. You've been extremely civil through this whole discussion and others, and I feel bad that you feel you have to assume some responsibility. Frankly, I admire the fact that you got to participate in the design of T5 and appreciate that you are here to discuss it, to run it and so on.
So, for me the question is whether to buy or not. I didn't join the KS, as the postage to the UK was too high for me; now the book is just about become to available in the UK (Infinity have it listed at £43.19 for example). I therefore won't have access to the CD-ROM instead of an index.
For measure, I have (and have played to greater or lesser extents): CT/MT/T4/MgT/d20T. I've got TNE but never played it. (In fact I bought one of the two first Black Box sets to arrive in our local games shop)
I can understand there are bound to be hyperbolic statements about playable vs unplayable, that often happens. You see it a lot in playtesting.
I'd like to know how damage and armour are supposed to work, as the description in earlier posts just sounded odd (1D damage for pistols, cheap Cloth armour soaking 10+ damage per hit making targets practically invulnerable, etc). But that may be explained by some errata.
I'm happy to fiddle with rules and change things around. But, for example, the MT errata (and associated complexity in creating vehicles/ships etc) is too much. I was surprised upon rereading Striker how much more straightforward that seemed. I'd like to see a fully errataed MT though.
Another factor is that Cthulhu Wars KS is about to end in early July; I suspect that may eat a significant amount of my available cash for a while...
For measure, I have (and have played to greater or lesser extents): CT/MT/T4/MgT/d20T. I've got TNE but never played it. (In fact I bought one of the two first Black Box sets to arrive in our local games shop)
I can understand there are bound to be hyperbolic statements about playable vs unplayable, that often happens. You see it a lot in playtesting.
I'd like to know how damage and armour are supposed to work, as the description in earlier posts just sounded odd (1D damage for pistols, cheap Cloth armour soaking 10+ damage per hit making targets practically invulnerable, etc). But that may be explained by some errata.
I'm happy to fiddle with rules and change things around. But, for example, the MT errata (and associated complexity in creating vehicles/ships etc) is too much. I was surprised upon rereading Striker how much more straightforward that seemed. I'd like to see a fully errataed MT though.
Another factor is that Cthulhu Wars KS is about to end in early July; I suspect that may eat a significant amount of my available cash for a while...
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