What is being discussed is using an RPG rule set. Using the most of the rules and, most importantly the major set. House rules to tweak is NOT what is meant. The CORE rules of a given version IS what is meant. So, YES many people play with one rule set for many RPG's.
T5 - The Verdict
- Thread starter Supplement Four
- Start date
What is being discussed is using an RPG rule set. Using the most of the rules and, most importantly the major set. House rules to tweak is NOT what is meant. The CORE rules of a given version IS what is meant. So, YES many people play with one rule set for many RPG's.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
That's funny! :rofl:
Yes, I agree, too. I could come up with a mechanic, let's say roll one D6, and on a "6", the task is successful. Then, give characters different skill levels which represent how many dice are thrown. If they get one "6", or more, the "6's" represent success and the degree of success.
Just that, right there, three sentences, is playable if people start playing what I say. What's not included in those three sentences is left for the Ref to make up.
That's playable.
And, that's you're point, as well. (To which, I agree.)
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Isn't that basically West End Star Wars?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
No, D6 Star Wars counts full value of dice, looking for a target number. My three sentence RPG above counts successes. So, if you roll 3D and get 3, 6, 6, then you've got two successes out of a possible three.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's the d6 version of White Wolf...
thalassogen
SOC-12
Yes, it is called Shadowrun.
No. WEG d6 was Roll and Total vs TN.
Excepting the Batman version which was roll skill d6's, and each 3, 4, 5, or 6 counts a success. The actual dice were symbolic - 4 bats, 2 blanks.
Burning Wheel, Storyteller (WoD), Shadowrun, and portions of Space 1889 used a roll successes mode
got that backwards. White Wolf's Storyteller engine is Shadowrun in d10's.
count-successes dice pool games in order of publication:
Space 1889 (see the fire combat mechanics) (1988)
Shadowrun (pure count succeeses -1989)
Vampire/Storyteller 1991 or so
WEG DC Universe 1999
Arrowflight RPG 2001
curmudgeon
SOC-12
I respect everyone's views on this new edition. It is, after all, a matter of taste, and nobody can tell you your taste is wrong.
I have been looking at the T5 book for awhile, and I look at the Sturm und Drang that has occurred and shake my head. As with every game rulebook, I look at most of the T5 book as optional. Don't like genetics? Don't use it. Don't like the combat system? Don't use it.
I find this to be an effective way of handling just about any new game system. I've done this with Traveller since 1979. When all else fails, and you just want to do something cool in the game, roll 2D, tell the Ref what you rolled, and go from there. Works for me, but I am sure not for everyone.
I have been looking at the T5 book for awhile, and I look at the Sturm und Drang that has occurred and shake my head. As with every game rulebook, I look at most of the T5 book as optional. Don't like genetics? Don't use it. Don't like the combat system? Don't use it.
I find this to be an effective way of handling just about any new game system. I've done this with Traveller since 1979. When all else fails, and you just want to do something cool in the game, roll 2D, tell the Ref what you rolled, and go from there. Works for me, but I am sure not for everyone.
thalassogen
SOC-12
OK, not using some sub systems may be an option if you do not intend to have situations this sub system is geared for. But if you have a need for a sub system and it is not to your liking you may either a) use it nonetheless, b) create your own one (or adapt an existing one), or c) just use another set of rules that suits you.
I am really hoping for some working samples of gun maker, armor maker and the combat system that make sense TO ME. Or maybe a revision. I like combats in my games. I feel T5 combat just isn't right for me. I can't feel the action. I can't rationalize some rules. I hope for an upcoming clarification or revision.
I am really hoping for some working samples of gun maker, armor maker and the combat system that make sense TO ME. Or maybe a revision. I like combats in my games. I feel T5 combat just isn't right for me. I can't feel the action. I can't rationalize some rules. I hope for an upcoming clarification or revision.
I din't know about examples, but you might want to play with this.
thalassogen
SOC-12
Yes, I know this program. Really nice, BTW. But I like to understand the text behind it and I would like a system that puts it all to use. At least for me, the combat system does not do this in an acceptable way. Mind you, this is just my opinion based on my preferences regarding combat systems (I like the ebb and flow of combat some rules convey, I do not like abstraction at that high a level).
My verdict - Meh, T5 is a toolbox, not a game
After spending the past month or so perusing the monolith, I can see about 100 pages of this being useful for the group I participate in. The other 500+pages are, for lack of a better term, not worth the paper they are printed on.
I suspect this will be true for any gaming group - the critical difference is that for each group, it will be a different 100 pages. Whatever your gaming group is interested in, there is an over-engineered subsystem with your name on it.
The level of granularity is too fine to use as a regular game IMO. The level of granularity moves T5 from a role-playing game to Europa in space.
Example - Space Combat Round
How long does it take to conduct a Space combat round in CT?, MT?, Mongoose?
Now compare that to pages 410 to 415 in T5. Is the level of granularity worth all of the additional time it takes for your group to work it's way through all of the subsystems to get the exact same results as you would for your current rule-set of choice?
Then there is the book layout - that horse has been beaten to death.
One issue that hasn't come up, as far as I can tell is that in the artwork, Human = Caucasian. This isn't just a T5 issue however - it has been endemic through out most RPGs. 35+ years of Traveller products, I can count every black human in official Traveller artwork on 2 hands and have fingers left over.
So who is the target audience for this?
1. This will in no way, shape, or fashion bring in new players. Full Stop. Naming it "Core Rules" implies that you have to know all of this to play. New players will take one look at that 500+ page manual, and promptly move onto another game system. They aren't going to purchase it either. It will be too expensive to take a flyer on. Apparently, someone forgot that one of major reasons given for rebooting the game system earlier was "too much information for new players to learn".
2. I don't see the CT/MT crowd moving to this - they have a simple, fast game system that already has most the kinks worked out. Depending on the style of play, there will be subsystems people will integrate into their game. (In my group's case, it will be the world generation chapters - everything else is too much work for the end result - 22 die rolls to make a character? Please.)
3. The TNE/Gurps/T20/Hero crowd - can't comment with any real specificity. I don't really use those game system mechanics, so I don't know how well campaigns would convert.
4. The Mongoose crowd? They would be used to having information scattered everywhere, without an index to help, but that appears to be the only point of commonality.
5. The few folks that play T4 could certainly move, after all, T5 was built on T4. Although I think that the numbers of people who use that rules system in comparison to the other ones is instructive. I don't remember the Traveller masses demanding an update to T4.
I only see this book being useful for people that "roll-play" as opposed to people that "role-play". If I want to play Yahtzee, I'll play Yahtzee.
Sorry, but that is how I feel about it.
After spending the past month or so perusing the monolith, I can see about 100 pages of this being useful for the group I participate in. The other 500+pages are, for lack of a better term, not worth the paper they are printed on.
I suspect this will be true for any gaming group - the critical difference is that for each group, it will be a different 100 pages. Whatever your gaming group is interested in, there is an over-engineered subsystem with your name on it.
The level of granularity is too fine to use as a regular game IMO. The level of granularity moves T5 from a role-playing game to Europa in space.
Example - Space Combat Round
How long does it take to conduct a Space combat round in CT?, MT?, Mongoose?
Now compare that to pages 410 to 415 in T5. Is the level of granularity worth all of the additional time it takes for your group to work it's way through all of the subsystems to get the exact same results as you would for your current rule-set of choice?
Then there is the book layout - that horse has been beaten to death.
One issue that hasn't come up, as far as I can tell is that in the artwork, Human = Caucasian. This isn't just a T5 issue however - it has been endemic through out most RPGs. 35+ years of Traveller products, I can count every black human in official Traveller artwork on 2 hands and have fingers left over.
So who is the target audience for this?
1. This will in no way, shape, or fashion bring in new players. Full Stop. Naming it "Core Rules" implies that you have to know all of this to play. New players will take one look at that 500+ page manual, and promptly move onto another game system. They aren't going to purchase it either. It will be too expensive to take a flyer on. Apparently, someone forgot that one of major reasons given for rebooting the game system earlier was "too much information for new players to learn".
2. I don't see the CT/MT crowd moving to this - they have a simple, fast game system that already has most the kinks worked out. Depending on the style of play, there will be subsystems people will integrate into their game. (In my group's case, it will be the world generation chapters - everything else is too much work for the end result - 22 die rolls to make a character? Please.)
3. The TNE/Gurps/T20/Hero crowd - can't comment with any real specificity. I don't really use those game system mechanics, so I don't know how well campaigns would convert.
4. The Mongoose crowd? They would be used to having information scattered everywhere, without an index to help, but that appears to be the only point of commonality.
5. The few folks that play T4 could certainly move, after all, T5 was built on T4. Although I think that the numbers of people who use that rules system in comparison to the other ones is instructive. I don't remember the Traveller masses demanding an update to T4.
I only see this book being useful for people that "roll-play" as opposed to people that "role-play". If I want to play Yahtzee, I'll play Yahtzee.
Sorry, but that is how I feel about it.
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Oh, wow, Europa. Now there's a memory last retrieved long ago...
PinkSplice
SOC-12
And the SFB Starbase scenario. Or the Lou Zocchi Battle of Britain that took a school gym to hold.
PinkSplice
SOC-12
I bought the Beta CD, then I bought the T5 disk after the Kickstarter ended. I've been looking them over, and I find most of it to be "reference" or "toolbox" material, much like GURPS Traveller was. I now know how to map a world, what a land grant looks like, and what RU's are (but not how to spend them) and what a credit is worth.
I've only been playing or refereeing Traveller since 1978, so, I'm new to all this...
I just bought about $100 worth of Mongoose Traveller material, that I will be running my next campaign with. It too could use a little cleanup, but it is more, ummm, *enjoyable*, for me to run than I think T5 would be.
I look forward to a second edition/printing of T5.
I've only been playing or refereeing Traveller since 1978, so, I'm new to all this...
I just bought about $100 worth of Mongoose Traveller material, that I will be running my next campaign with. It too could use a little cleanup, but it is more, ummm, *enjoyable*, for me to run than I think T5 would be.
I look forward to a second edition/printing of T5.
