OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[Garnfellow]

Yep. Deneb may be the brightest star in the sky of Terra (which it isn't for Earth), but at least it has the right stellar classification. And, in sector data I've created, I've tried to (at least roughly) match the stellar distances as well.

For me, the best (and really only) sensible explanation for Deneb is that the sector name is a false cognate and based on an unrelated Vilani word.

 

[whulorigan]

For me, the best (and really only) sensible explanation for Deneb is that the sector name is a false cognate and based on an unrelated Vilani word.

I have considered the possibility that perhaps there is another (smaller - i.e. main-sequence) star of the same spectrum directly in line between Terra and the real Deneb, at half the distance, that is not yet known. The Real Deneb is α¹ Cygni (i.e Deneb¹), and the smaller (closer and as yet undiscovered) star is α² Cygni (Deneb² - which would be the "TravellerMap" Deneb).

I have the suspicion, however, that with current astronomical equipment, we would be able to detect such a star should it exist.

 

[robject]

Deneb (1925 Deneb) is named after the Deneb that we know, but it's otherwise unrelated.

 

[77topaz]

Maybe Yaskoydray moved Deneb from its real location to its Traveller location while no-one was looking.

 

[77topaz]

Actually there is a beneficial fudge-factor inherent in the Map of Charted Space. Alpha Centauri (Prometheus) in reality lies at bearing 315^o, whereas on the Map of Charted Space it lies at 270^o. That is rotated exactly 45^o. This happens to be true for about 75% of the named real stars on the Map of Charted Space that I have checked. So the "real" direction of "Coreward" (for the purposes of placing stars) lies parallel tot the Lesser Rift (i.e. Sagittarius A* would be seen from Earth looking thru K'kree space).

So when I want to place a real star in relation to Charted Space, I consider that I have a fudge-factor of 45^o regarding the coordinate axes between Coreward as marked on the Charted Space Map and 45^o clockwise from that bearing.

In the case of Rigel, it would be somewhere between due Rimward and Rimtrailing relative to the Map of Charted Space. I generally place it Rimward at about 4-7 Sectors distance from Terra (depending on how you want to account for the fact that it lies along a southerly bearing, and not in the plane of the map - i.e. it is really Rimsouth/Rimsouth-Trailing ).

Heh, that actually works out very well for my Orion data! My data specifically places Rigel as 2733 Geerphli, where Geerphli Sector is the sector two sectors rimward of Wrence Sector (as is shown on the Traveller Wiki, though not on TravellerMap).

Actually, Regulus is Latin for "Little King" (it was the term the Romans typically used for Tribal Chieftains). Basilicus is probably derived from Greek "Basileos" (= "King"). "Saint Peter's Basilica" means "Saint Peter's Palace".

Okay, that makes sense. It's just that, if you Google the term, the top results are all either about Basilicus Prime or a Hungarian winery p); though, "The Free Dictionary" also appears, defining the term as "denoting a prominent or important part or structure".

 

[whulorigan]

Deneb (1925 Deneb) is named after the Deneb that we know, but it's otherwise unrelated.

I have considered the possibility that perhaps there is another (smaller - i.e. main-sequence) star of the same spectrum directly in line between Terra and the real Deneb, at half the distance, that is not yet known. The Real Deneb is α¹ Cygni (i.e Deneb¹), and the smaller (closer and as yet undiscovered) star is α² Cygni (Deneb² - which would be the "TravellerMap" Deneb).

I have the suspicion, however, that with current astronomical equipment, we would be able to detect such a star should it exist.

Of course, it could also be the non-canonical 2-way wormhole that exists in the 1925-Deneb Hex whose other end just happens to terminate at Deneb on the other side of Zhodani space . . .

 

[savage]

I'd go with explorers giving them the same name.

Traveller was never Hard Science when it was first released. All these things are bandages. It would be interesting to see a 2D, hex, real star map for comparisons.

 

[77topaz]

I'd go with explorers giving them the same name.

Traveller was never Hard Science when it was first released. All these things are bandages. It would be interesting to see a 2D, hex, real star map for comparisons.

The thing is, the real Milky Way isn't exactly 2D (IIRC, it's about as thick as Charted Space is wide, and in the core it would be even thicker). So compressing that into a 2D map is going to produce some weird results however you do it.

 

[aramis]

The thing is, the real Milky Way isn't exactly 2D (IIRC, it's about as thick as Charted Space is wide, and in the core it would be even thicker). So compressing that into a 2D map is going to produce some weird results however you do it.

At Earth's orbit, the disk is about 0.6 kiloparsecs thick. 600 parsecs. Charted space, counting the atlas's 7x5, plus two extra in each direction for 11x9... that's still 11x32 (352) by 9x40 (360)... about half as wide as the disk.

 

[savage]

The thing is, the real Milky Way isn't exactly 2D (IIRC, it's about as thick as Charted Space is wide, and in the core it would be even thicker). So compressing that into a 2D map is going to produce some weird results however you do it.

I wasn't suggesting that "all of our charted space" through the entire disc be mapped in 2D. Key worlds would be interesting from a "how wrong is Traveller" perspective within the perspective of 3I's known space.

 

[Garnfellow]

Wicker / New Mars (Magyar 2728)

Wicker / New Mars (Magyar 2728) is listed as a capital; shouldn't it have an associated Duke (F)? There is otherwise no duke in Swan, New Mars, or Cluster -- which includes many high pop worlds.

 

[whulorigan]

Wicker / New Mars (Magyar 2728) is listed as a capital; shouldn't it have an associated Duke (F)?

Wicker likewise seems like an odd place to locate an Imperial Capital in the first place, as it is right on the Confederation border and is relatively surrounded by Confederation Worlds.

There is otherwise no duke in Swan, New Mars, or Cluster -- which includes many high pop worlds.

Swan and Cluster are subsectors within the Solomani Confederation, and would not have a Duke, as the Confederation does not have nobles. The few Imperial Worlds that are there would likely be administered from a neighboring subsector.

 

[Garnfellow]

Wicker likewise seems like an odd place to locate an Imperial Capital in the first place, as it is right on the Confederation border and is relatively surrounded by Confederation Worlds.

Yeah, there's no great choice for a capital -- I think Wicker was "chosen" because it has the only Class A starport, although it only has an Importance of 2. Union and Iatur have higher Importance of 3 but only class C starports, and Iatur is located even further within Confederation territory. Asorret has the same Importance as Wicker (2) but only a class B starport. It does have a more central location and a naval base.

Given everything, I'd be inclined to waive the Class A requirement and promote Asorret to the capital.

Swan and Cluster are subsectors within the Solomani Confederation, and would not have a Duke, as the Confederation does not have nobles. The few Imperial Worlds that are there would likely be administered from a neighboring subsector.

That's correct, and that noble would be most likely located in . . . New Mars. The point I was trying to make was that if you combine the Imperial worlds from the three subsectors, you have more than enough to justify a duchy.

 

[whulorigan]

Yeah, there's no great choice for a capital -- I think Wicker was "chosen" because it has the only Class A starport, although it only has an Importance of 2. Union and Iatur have higher Importance of 3 but only class C starports, and Iatur is located even further within Confederation territory. Asorret has the same Importance as Wicker (2) but only a class B starport. It does have a more central location and a naval base.

Given everything, I'd be inclined to waive the Class A requirement and promote Asorret to the capital.
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That's correct, and that noble would be most likely located in . . . New Mars. The point I was trying to make was that if you combine the Imperial worlds from the three subsectors, you have more than enough to justify a duchy.

I'd go with highest importance world as well, and come up with some back-story as to how Assoret used to have a Class-A Port, but through some mishap or other got downgraded to Class-C, at least for the time being.

 

[Garnfellow]

I'd go with highest importance world as well, and come up with some back-story as to how Assoret used to have a Class-A Port, but through some mishap or other got downgraded to Class-C, at least for the time being.

In that case Union would be the best bet.

 

[Garnfellow]

Temeraire/Conda (Daibei 3020)

Temeraire/Conda (Daibei 3020) is the homeworld of the Evantha, sophonts introduced in GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 4. They are winged hunters most comfortable in low gravity.

As described in AR4 the T5 UWP of Temeraire would be A4859A7-D Hi Pr (Evantha)W N 140 K0V.

The current T5 stats are rather different: B585779-A Ag Pr (Evantha)6 N 240 M1 V M4 V.

A few of the changes are readily understandable: (1) the Atlas of the Imperium lists the world at Daibei 3020 as having a Class B starport; (2) as the world is unnamed in the Atlas the population code would be less than 9 (1 billion), (3) the increase in size is consistent with T5’s global changes to planetary data, and (4) TL A is the maximum possible for a world with all these new parameters.

Reconciling these two versions is difficult, but not impossible. The size change is fine and should override AR4. The difference in starport can be attributed to a hypothetical upgrade between 1105 (the T5 baseline) and 1122 (the apparent setting of AR4).

Population is quite a bit tricker. AR4 claims that the 1122 population of Temeraire is 1.2 billion, but the 1105 T5 data indicates 20 million, of which only 12 million are Evantha. I would strongly recommend increasing the population code to 8, the pop multiplier to 9, and making it an almost complete Evantha world: "(Evantha)W."

The other social data can probably be attributed to significant changes to the world between 1105 and 1122. The timeline in AR4 is a bit muddled, but this much can be teased out:

• 1072 - Shirani Kay "fifty years earlier [from 1122]" proceeds to unify the 72 other nation-states of Temeraire under the banner of her Spiral Path party, dedicated to world unification, interstellar trade, free enterprise, and support of the dominant religion.
• 1092 - A Temeraire plant owned by Ling-Standard Products is nationalized by the government of Detrans. Kay is offworld at the time, exiled for her politics, and studying at an Imperial university, where she met the daughter of a senior LSP executive.
• 1102 - "Over the last two decades [from 1122]" Spiral Path spreads like wildfire across the other Evantha worlds – sometimes peacefully, other times in what amounted to religious jihad, although Spiral Path was always careful to observe the letter of the Imperial rules of war.

The year 1072 doesn’t quite make sense as written. I think it’s more likely that Shirani Kay was born in 1072, which would make her 20 in 1092, consistent with studying at university. If she returned to Temeraire in 1094 or so, by 1102 she overthrows the government of Detrans and at that point proceeds to unify the rest of the world. Simultaneously the Spiral Path begins to spread to other systems. Between 1102 and 1122 Kay becomes a world dictator.

All of this is to say that in 1105 Temeraire could well be a balkanized world with a government code of 7 with a law level of 9, consistent with T5SS data. Increasing the starport to A and the pop to 9 in 1122 would also be enough to also increase the TL to D.

The stellar data is a bit of a mystery; I would recommend changing it to K0 V M4 V to remain consistent with AR4, and assume that the red dwarf is placed in a far orbit.

To sum up, here is my recommended revised Temeraire:

Temeraire 0320 B585879-A Pa Ph Ri (Evantha)W { 3 } (D7C+5) [9B6B] BcCe 940 N 13 ImDi K0 V M4 V

I'd be inclined to add an Amber Zone and the Dangerous remark to reflect social unrest circa 1105.

 

[Garnfellow]

Evantha Worlds

GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 4 notes that the "The Evantha themselves eventually spread to colonize some 17 star systems [during the First Imperium]" (38). These worlds are part of the Evantha Protectorate, which "is not an interstellar government. A holdover from the Long Night, the name is used to refer to the 17 worlds predominantly [emphasis added] inhabited by Evantha. Today, all the worlds of the Protectorate are self-governing members of the Imperium" (41).

The Evantha homeworld, Temeraire, is part of a cluster of 15 systems all separated by jump-1. Given that the Protectorate existed through Long Night, and since the Evantha would probably have been lucky to have retained J-1 capacity during this period, it seems logical to assume that all 15 systems in the "Tukera Cluster" were part of the Protectorate. I would therefore recommend adding Evantha populations to following worlds:

• Ashurst Wood (2322 C64A101-C) - Evan8
• Zenone (2323 C5667AC-8) - Evan4
• Tukera (2423 E693AA8-A) - Evan1
• Adanac (2524 CA6A454-C) - Evan6
• Dharma (2621 C555599-9) - Evan8
• Carnivora (2622 C694664-8) - Evan8
• Regiimaa (2623 C435388-B) - Evan8
• St. Sebastien (2624 D200310-9) - Evan7
• Inthavixay (2722 D553316-7) - Evan8
• Daelan (2723 C310100-C) - EvanW
• Ulie (2822 D76A520-9) - Evan6
• Dime (2922 B65557A-B) - Evan9
• New Melbourne (3021 E557312-7) - Evan8
• Bobonong (3121 A591759-D) - Evan8

These changes would represent approximately 7.1 billion Evantha, most located on Tukera. AR4 notes that "In addition to the homeworld population, about 9 billion Evantha live offworld, mostly in space habitats in their own system and their colony worlds" (44).

The remaining 1.9 billion could be accounted through rounding errors on Tukera or on other secondary worlds within the Protectorate. According to AR4, "Although the Vanthians control several star systems, they are most comfortable on their home world of Temeraire, where the low gravity and unusually dense oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere allows them to fly. But such planets are rare, so most Vanthians dwelling offworld live in ships or space habitats where the environment can be adjusted to match the peculiar conditions of their home" (39).

So including Temeraire, we've accounted for 15 Protectorate systems; what about the missing two systems?

Four systems in the cluster are binaries: Temeraire itself, Ashurst Wood (2322), Carnivora (2622), and Daelan (2723). It would not be unthinkable for the second star in two of these systems to be in a far orbit; if the Evantha colonized those hypothetical secondary worlds it would would readily fulfill the "17 star systems" and still remain within the Tukera Cluster.

AR4 notes that "The planetary government of Temeraire, the Evantha homeworld, and of 12 of the 17 Evantha Protectorate worlds, is the political party Spiral Path. . . . The other five Evantha worlds are balkanized with a variety of democratic and other governments, but all have one or more nations that support Spiral Path" (40).

It is important to note that this passage reflects conditions in 1122; assuming the Spiral Path only starts spreading out from Temeraire in 1102, the T5SS government data for Protectorate worlds is probably fine as is. Other than adding Evantha populations, no other changes are recommended.

 

[Garnfellow]

As an interesting side note, all 15 worlds in the Tukera Cluster are within 50 parsecs of Terra and would have been just inside the border of the Solomani Autonomous Region. The AR4 Evantha entry does not mention the Rim War at all, but it seems likely these worlds would have been in contention. These would have been exactly the sort of worlds that the Imperium reabsorbed between 940 and 990. They would have therefore been prime targets for the Confederation during the Solomani Rim War.

 

[robject]

Folks, I learned that Wildeman (2819 Trojan Reaches) has a different UWP in the T5SS than what shows up in MGT Alien Module 1: Aslan -- and other Mongoose books as well.

Can anyone tell me when the UWP was adjusted for the T5SS?

 

[tjoneslo]

Best answer I can give without access to my home computer is to check the diffs in the Traveller Map GitHub. Or ask Joshua to do the same. Don didn't use source control for his changes that I know of.